Politics Centrelink

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Royal Flush

Norm Smith Medallist
Feb 14, 2008
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So how is a 75 dollar increase going to assist with a better standard of living?
A grand total of 325 per week . Wow


How will the same argument not continue that centre link is too low to survive.
Because it will be.


Welfare accounts for 35% of government expenditure.

So add another 25% to that bill and looks like you'll be working a third job.

It's all well and good to increase payments , but what are you going to sacrifice personally to achieve that ?

And you don't think pensioners deserve more ? I do, after all they've worked a lifetime and paid lots of taxes.

So let's increase the pension too, which is arguably fair.

Going by your logic , we need to achieve fairness, so we'll need to all pay at least 60% tax in our earnings.
This means roughly speaking, we work 2 days for ourselves and 3 days for the government to re distribute the money to this less fortunate.

Youre a better bloke then me if that's your idea of a fair society.

That’s been answered, it should be increased by $75 per week.
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Royal Flush

Norm Smith Medallist
Feb 14, 2008
6,924
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Brisbane
AFL Club
North Melbourne
Unemployed are not the most vulnerable.
The disabled, the elderly , children displaced from their families, the mentally unwell, the list is arguably larger and pushes the unemployed further down the list.
The government's role is to ensure a viable and healthy economy so that we don't have joblessness for those that want to Work
I make it sound like it's a problem because it is. Glad to see we at least agree that a) the most vulnerable people should be looked after, and b) the Newstart payment is too low.
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cartwright

Norm Smith Medallist
Jun 7, 2007
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here
AFL Club
St Kilda
So how is a 75 dollar increase going to assist with a better standard of living?
A grand total of 325 per week . Wow


How will the same argument not continue that centre link is too low to survive.
Because it will be.


Welfare accounts for 35% of government expenditure.

So add another 25% to that bill and looks like you'll be working a third job.

It's all well and good to increase payments , but what are you going to sacrifice personally to achieve that ?

And you don't think pensioners deserve more ? I do, after all they've worked a lifetime and paid lots of taxes.

So let's increase the pension too, which is arguably fair.

Going by your logic , we need to achieve fairness, so we'll need to all pay at least 60% tax in our earnings.
This means roughly speaking, we work 2 days for ourselves and 3 days for the government to re distribute the money to this less fortunate.

Youre a better bloke then me if that's your idea of a fair society.



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$75 dollars a week. Not a day.

Aged pension makes up most of welfare expenditure. The aged pension has doubled in real terms since 2000.

Newstart hasn’t been increased since 1994!
 

Royal Flush

Norm Smith Medallist
Feb 14, 2008
6,924
5,260
Brisbane
AFL Club
North Melbourne
I know you meant a week, the figures are staggering arnt they.
When you get taxed at 60% let me know how you feel about supporting increased centre link payment.

Unfortunately no one wants to turn up to work to work for the government for 3 days to pay for this.

The government is better off spending our tax to encourage economic activity and create jobs.

Do you understand this logic ?
$75 dollars a week. Not a day.

Aged pension makes up most of welfare expenditure. The aged pension has doubled in real terms since 2000.

Newstart hasn’t been increased since 1994!
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Gethelred

Norm Smith Medallist
May 1, 2016
8,133
15,640
AFL Club
Carlton
Unemployed are not the most vulnerable.
The disabled, the elderly , children displaced from their families, the mentally unwell, the list is arguably larger and pushes the unemployed further down the list.
The government's role is to ensure a viable and healthy economy so that we don't have joblessness for those that want to Work

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D'you wanna create a Venn diagram of your vulnerable list and the poor/unemployed, see how much they overlap?

The government's role is significantly more complex than that, but sure, I'll play along for now. If 'the government's role is to ensure a viable and healthy economy so that we don't have joblessness for those that want to work', how then do you justify the various Jobactive services, which are inefficient at their management of the jobless and do not assist in them getting employed, with few exceptions? How do you justify WFTD programs, which in fact remove paid positions at entry level or manufacture work for poor people to do?

How do you justify the incredibly inefficient and arbitrary 20 jobs applied quota, given it basically incentivises the jobless to spam employers?
 

cartwright

Norm Smith Medallist
Jun 7, 2007
6,635
6,392
here
AFL Club
St Kilda
I know you meant a week, the figures are staggering arnt they.
When you get taxed at 60% let me know how you feel about supporting increased centre link payment.

Unfortunately no one wants to turn up to work to work for the government for 2 days to pay for this.


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$6b on franking credits.

This increase will cost $3b.

Due to the nature of living week to week, it’ll be spent immediately.
 

Royal Flush

Norm Smith Medallist
Feb 14, 2008
6,924
5,260
Brisbane
AFL Club
North Melbourne
Are you asking me for my opinion of various public servant departments?
Hey i didnt want to offend anyone.
The less I have to do with them the better.

Society will always have circa 4% unemployable for various reasons.
They need to be looked after.

But if somehow, your trying to categorise those unemploymed that don't fit that 4% category ahead for example, of the elderly in terms of needs and justification for increases in funding through Centrelink payments then I'm lost by your logic.
D'you wanna create a Venn diagram of your vulnerable list and the poor/unemployed, see how much they overlap?

The government's role is significantly more complex than that, but sure, I'll play along for now. If 'the government's role is to ensure a viable and healthy economy so that we don't have joblessness for those that want to work', how then do you justify the various Jobactive services, which are inefficient at their management of the jobless and do not assist in them getting employed, with few exceptions? How do you justify WFTD programs, which in fact remove paid positions at entry level or manufacture work for poor people to do?

How do you justify the incredibly inefficient and arbitrary 20 jobs applied quota, given it basically incentivises the jobless to spam employers?
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Royal Flush

Norm Smith Medallist
Feb 14, 2008
6,924
5,260
Brisbane
AFL Club
North Melbourne
You do understand the government distributes 198 billion to welfare ?
I gather your some how trying to rob Peter , to pay Paul an extra $75 per week for doing nothing. 3 or 6 billion won't even come close to funding it. Need an extra zero next to that 3 or 6 billion

$6b on franking credits.

This increase will cost $3b.

Due to the nature of living week to week, it’ll be spent immediately.
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cartwright

Norm Smith Medallist
Jun 7, 2007
6,635
6,392
here
AFL Club
St Kilda
You do understand the government distributes 198 billion to welfare ?
I gather your some how trying to rob Peter , to pay Paul an extra $75 per week for doing nothing. 3 or 6 billion won't even come close to funding it. Need an extra zero next to that 3 or 6 billion



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That’s the figure Deloitte stated:

“The report by Deloitte Access Economics, released on Monday morning, said the policy to increase the incomes of more than 700,000 people by $10.71 a day would cost the federal budget $3.3bn a year.”

 

Royal Flush

Norm Smith Medallist
Feb 14, 2008
6,924
5,260
Brisbane
AFL Club
North Melbourne
So newstart recepients deserve a rise ahead of pensioners?
Newstart is not designed to live off,the pension is.
I don't believe the true costs have been accounted for, out of context snippets in a news article
That’s the figure Deloitte stated:

“The report by Deloitte Access Economics, released on Monday morning, said the policy to increase the incomes of more than 700,000 people by $10.71 a day would cost the federal budget $3.3bn a year.”

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CM86

Anindilyakwa
Sep 21, 2009
10,897
8,459
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So newstart recepients deserve a rise ahead of pensioners?
Newstart is not designed to live off,the pension is.
I don't believe the true costs have been accounted for, out of context snippets in a news article


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Newstart recipients aren't your enemy.

They are probably no different to you in many ways, they've just hit a rough patch in life.

Should we have a system that means once you hit that rough patch, that you are relegated to this 'underclass'. Or do we want a system that helps you stay on your feet, and get back into gainful employment?


Yes some people abuse the welfare system. But the majority don't.
And for them to be treated as filth just because they've hit a rough patch is a blight on our society.

The amount of money going into preventing people accessing Newstart, and going to private companies that don't benefit anyone, is what you should be targeting.
 

Royal Flush

Norm Smith Medallist
Feb 14, 2008
6,924
5,260
Brisbane
AFL Club
North Melbourne
There is a sector in each element of society crying out for funding. Each with legitimate claims

Kind of impossible to fully fund every element of the public service system.

Im not against newstart recepients receiving more, I just don't think most of you understand there are other needs being addressed before them.
Those that are incapable of looking after themselves

Sure, we could fund everything based on equallity of outcome, but to do so, we'd all need to be at a much higher tax bracket.

Which Australians won't like.

The systematic support of the Aussie dole bludger lifestyle ended 20 years ago.

I don't dispute the issues with the employment services.

There is a thing called income protection insurance, most people can get some sort of protection, at a cost through. And I bet nobody wants to fork out the premiums for these either, but expect others to do so when they need it








Newstart recipients aren't your enemy.

They are probably no different to you in many ways, they've just hit a rough patch in life.

Should we have a system that means once you hit that rough patch, that you are relegated to this 'underclass'. Or do we want a system that helps you stay on your feet, and get back into gainful employment?


Yes some people abuse the welfare system. But the majority don't.
And for them to be treated as filth just because they've hit a rough patch is a blight on our society.

The amount of money going into preventing people accessing Newstart, and going to private companies that don't benefit anyone, is what you should be targeting.
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Last edited:

Gethelred

Norm Smith Medallist
May 1, 2016
8,133
15,640
AFL Club
Carlton
Are you asking me for my opinion of various public servant departments?
Hey i didnt want to offend anyone.
The less I have to do with them the better.

Society will always have circa 4% unemployable for various reasons.
They need to be looked after.

But if somehow, your trying to categorise those unemploymed that don't fit that 4% category ahead for example, of the elderly in terms of needs and justification for increases in funding through Centrelink payments then I'm lost by your logic.


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Except, they're not public service departments, they're private businesses given government tender, or businesses created specifically for the task of managing WFTD, the Centrelink external aspects of the Newstart payment (including the 20 jobs per month quota) and the various other mundanities that Centrelink cannot do anymore due to numerous funding cuts.

You're not being offensive, now. It's offensive when you accuse someone who is genuinely doing tough that they shouldn't complain about their own problems because people in Cambodia or elsewhere are surviving on $20.

And I'm not categorising shit. If you look at the most vulnerable parts of our society, you will find a significant overlap between them and the unemployed.
 

Gethelred

Norm Smith Medallist
May 1, 2016
8,133
15,640
AFL Club
Carlton
There is a sector in each element of society crying out for funding. Each with legitimate claims

Kind of impossible to fully fund every element of the public service system.

Im not against newstart recepients receiving more, I just don't think most of you understand there are other needs being addressed before them.
Those that are incapable of looking after themselves

Sure, we could fund everything based on equallity of outcome, but to do so, we'd all need to be at a much higher tax bracket.

Which Australians won't like.

The systematic support of the Aussie dole bludger lifestyle ended 20 years ago.

I don't dispute the issues with the employment services.

There is a thing called income protection insurance, most people can get some sort of protection, at a cost through. And I bet nobody wants to fork out the premiums for these either, but expect others to do so when they need it










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... because handing protections for the poor over to the insurance companies is a good idea?

:drunk:
 

Royal Flush

Norm Smith Medallist
Feb 14, 2008
6,924
5,260
Brisbane
AFL Club
North Melbourne
Except, they're not public service departments, they're private businesses given government tender, or businesses created specifically for the task of managing WFTD, the Centrelink external aspects of the Newstart payment (including the 20 jobs per month quota) and the various other mundanities that Centrelink cannot do anymore due to numerous funding cuts.

You're not being offensive, now. It's offensive when you accuse someone who is genuinely doing tough that they shouldn't complain about their own problems because people in Cambodia or elsewhere are surviving on $20.

And I'm not categorising s**t. If you look at the most vulnerable parts of our society, you will find a significant overlap between them and the unemployed.
They maybe shit, but I guess they're employing people.

You get offended pretty easily if the solution to unemployment is getting employment is offensive.





... because handing protections for the poor over to the insurance companies is a good idea?

:drunk:
So you don't want to pay to protect your own income.
But want others to do so? Then complain when it's not enough.
Yea seems fair.





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Gethelred

Norm Smith Medallist
May 1, 2016
8,133
15,640
AFL Club
Carlton
They maybe s**t, but I guess they're employing people.

You get offended pretty easily if the solution to unemployment is getting employment is offensive
.
Wat?

Try rephrasing that in a way which makes sense in english, please, because it doesn't in its current form.

So you don't want to pay to protect your own income.
But want others to do so? Then complain when it's not enough.
Yea seems fair.

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... or I don't trust insurance companies to do what's best for people over a short, medium or long term duration.

And I am perfectly willing to pay to protect my own income, and the incomes of other people. It's what my taxes are for, and what my superannuation is for.
 

Royal Flush

Norm Smith Medallist
Feb 14, 2008
6,924
5,260
Brisbane
AFL Club
North Melbourne
Wat?

Try rephrasing that in a way which makes sense in english, please, because it doesn't in its current form.


... or I don't trust insurance companies to do what's best for people over a short, medium or long term duration.

And I am perfectly willing to pay to protect my own income, and the incomes of other people. It's what my taxes are for, and what my superannuation is for.
The entitled...

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Royal Flush

Norm Smith Medallist
Feb 14, 2008
6,924
5,260
Brisbane
AFL Club
North Melbourne
There is something deeply ironic about you calling anyone else that, especially when you consider how you told me I needed to travel more.

Why don't you wander over to a thread in which they're discussing something you understand, hmm?
I don't think you understand what ironic means

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Gethelred

Norm Smith Medallist
May 1, 2016
8,133
15,640
AFL Club
Carlton
I don't think you understand what ironic means

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So, we're at this stage of proceedings, huh?

Give me a sec, just got to get out my reading glasses and my little book, it helps me translate what goes on on the SRP when someone has lost an argument but doesn't want to admit it or lose face.
 

Royal Flush

Norm Smith Medallist
Feb 14, 2008
6,924
5,260
Brisbane
AFL Club
North Melbourne
So, we're at this stage of proceedings, huh?

Give me a sec, just got to get out my reading glasses and my little book, it helps me translate what goes on on the SRP when someone has lost an argument but doesn't want to admit it or lose face.
How did you even come to the conclusion I lost an arguement.
entitlement vs self supporting opinions is a belief system.

Lots of you that hold the belief that the world owes you something live of a victim mentality..

Here's the difference

If someone said they're out of work and having a campaigner of a time finding work, I'm 100% inclined to offer constructive feedback and empathize with their circumstances.

If someone comes out and says I can't find work therefore can't live off Centrelink payments and they should increase by 30%. And I don't care where the funding comes from, (because it's all about my needs,and fu** the rest of the impoverished world) , don't increase pensions and take from self funded retirees because those araeholes owe me for not finding my preferred occupation, handling a shovel is too beneath me.

Then I say go fu** yourself you bludging campaigner.

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Gethelred

Norm Smith Medallist
May 1, 2016
8,133
15,640
AFL Club
Carlton
How did you even come to the conclusion I lost an arguement.
entitlement vs self supporting opinions is a belief system.

Lots of you that hold the belief that the world owes you something live of a victim mentality..

Here's the difference

If someone said they're out of work and having a campaigner of a time finding work, I'm 100% inclined to offer constructive feedback and empathize with their circumstances.

If someone comes out and says I can't find work therefore can't live off Centrelink payments and they should increase by 30%. And I don't care where the funding comes from, (because it's all about my needs,and fu** the rest of the impoverished world) , don't increase pensions and take from self funded retirees because those araeholes owe me for not finding my preferred occupation, handling a shovel is too beneath me.

Then I say go fu** yourself you bludging campaigner.

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And how, in any way whatsoever, is your post any less entitled than those you so look down upon? This is the irony in this situation; that you fail to see just how entitled you yourself are.

Literally no-one who is on the dole is as per your second paragraph. You do not know this, because people who are on the dole do not share the fact they are on the dole, and they do not go out, and they do not do it easy or hold out for a good job. You would know this, if you had ever had much to do with them. That you do not, and you still hold your own entitled attitude is so appalling as to be almost funny.

You are a caricature of yourself.
 

Royal Flush

Norm Smith Medallist
Feb 14, 2008
6,924
5,260
Brisbane
AFL Club
North Melbourne
And how, in any way whatsoever, is your post any less entitled than those you so look down upon? This is the irony in this situation; that you fail to see just how entitled you yourself are.

Literally no-one who is on the dole is as per your second paragraph. You do not know this, because people who are on the dole do not share the fact they are on the dole, and they do not go out, and they do not do it easy or hold out for a good job. You would know this, if you had ever had much to do with them. That you do not, and you still hold your own entitled attitude is so appalling as to be almost funny.

You are a caricature of yourself.
what a rant.
How exactly did you get entitled from anything i wrote. A bit of Irony there.


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Gethelred

Norm Smith Medallist
May 1, 2016
8,133
15,640
AFL Club
Carlton
what a rant.
How exactly did you get entitled from anything i wrote. A bit of Irony there.


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What an... excuse to dismiss or continuously misread things. Of course, I leave it to you to decide whether you misread my posts deliberately for duplicitous purposes, or because you're a moron.

You are entitled because you are continuously making the same mistake; you are imagining a hypothetical dole bludger who is in it purely for the free money, despite the fact that the dole is less than the minimum wage, the fact that most of people who are on it are perfectly willing to work but due to circumstances beyond their control they found themselves out of work, the fact that the job agencies who people who are on the dole are forced to work with are compliance based and do not seek for their clients to obtain work. The whole system is designed not to funnel the jobless into jobs, but to make obtaining and remaining on the dole as difficult as it can possibly be to minimise the amount of people claiming it. You are entitled, because you feel your opinion is worth consideration on something you know nothing about, and you are proudly displaying that ignorance with each successive post.

You began this particular conversation with the off hand comment that those who think the dole should be increased are whinging because people elsewhere on this planet are surviving on less. You told me I should travel more. Do you also think the starving should eat cake, too?

You do not see the difference between paying for something via your taxes to a government you choose to elect - which has within its various laws and rules at least a set of basic tenents which hold citizens of the country as worthy of protection - and an insurance company operating in the interests of their shareholders not their consumers.

This conversation serves no purpose other that to continuously illuminate the fact that you do not know what you are talking about. You do not read the posts you quote, and you do not interact with points you cannot argue with. I will allow you to have the last word, if only because it's small comfort, as this conversation is over.
 

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