Politics Centrelink

[RupieDupie]

You use the word maybe. Well Maybe.....NOT .
You can pedal it as right wing extremism by pulling up irrelevant examples all you like.
People who have no means to keep themselves alive should , out of the kindness of the hearts of others, be given resources to stay healthy, sheltered and fed.

They aren't robbing from the rich, Robin Hood style. They are robbing from the average who are often struggling themselves.

So are the rich, who are rewarded and awarded for doing so, why not celebrate both?

 

[RupieDupie]

You only think its smarter and more sensible, but that's because you are stupid.

What was stupid about my proposal?

 

[SaintsSeptember]

What was stupid about my proposal?

OK here we go.
How do you price your MEDIAN house. How do you even tell if a house is median or not.
The fact that you think you can simply give everyone a pay rise to afford a house sort of shows that you really aren't smart enough to understand things.

Your view seems to be that "all the "bosses" are getting rich from their workers "
If a company goes belly up, its because the "rich bosses took too much from it"

Here's a simple case for you.
People with no special credentials to work anywhere else get 80 grand a year to work on an ice cream assembly line.
Their "rich bosses" live overseas.
Their "rich bosses" can give them a payrise or buy the ice creams from China.

Now the workers go on the dole.
Hey lets up the dole so they can all buy houses.
All the other workers go on the dole cos its good.

Can your megabrain see where this leads? How's Zimbabwe tracking?

 

[geelong_crazy26]

So are the rich, who are rewarded and awarded for doing so, why not celebrate both?

The Rich don't take money out of the wages of middle and working class Australians , dole bludgers do .

 

[RupieDupie]

OK here we go.
How do you price your MEDIAN house. How do you even tell if a house is median or not.
The fact that you think you can simply give everyone a pay rise to afford a house sort of shows that you really aren't smart enough to understand things.

Your view seems to be that "all the "bosses" are getting rich from their workers "
If a company goes belly up, its because the "rich bosses took too much from it"

Here's a simple case for you.
People with no special credentials to work anywhere else get 80 grand a year to work on an ice cream assembly line.
Their "rich bosses" live overseas.
Their "rich bosses" can give them a payrise or buy the ice creams from China.

Now the workers go on the dole.
Hey lets up the dole so they can all buy houses.
All the other workers go on the dole cos its good.

Can your megabrain see where this leads? How's Zimbabwe tracking?

I think you should read the proposal I was making a little more carefully, understand it, then make an argument. What are you actually trying to argue here?

 

[RupieDupie]

The Rich don't take money out of the wages of middle and working class Australians , dole bludgers do .

I'm afraid they do, but they call it a different name, for example, "compound interest"

 

[geelong_crazy26]

I'm afraid they do, but they call it a different name, for example, "compound interest"

Don't get a loan than , no body is forcing you to get a loan from a bank .

Your also showing your lack of understanding for how the economy works , most businesses close to 95% in this country depend on getting loans from the bank . For the bank to give money out for businesses to employ people they need to have large amounts of capital which they get by charging interest.

So to make it simple the banks give out loans that business use to employ people and a large amount of that capital comes from interest repayments .

 

[RupieDupie]

Don't get a loan than , no body is forcing you to get a loan from a bank .

Your also showing your lack of understanding for how the economy works , most businesses close to 95% in this country depend on getting loans from the bank . For the bank to give money out for businesses to employ people they need to have large amounts of capital which they get by charging interest.

So to make it simple the banks give out loans that business use to employ people and a large amount of that capital comes from interest repayments .

So in essence your argument is, don't get a loan but 95% of businesses are dependent on them?

Seems like you are saying bank loans are a requirement?

 

[geelong_crazy26]

So in essence your argument is, don't get a loan but 95% of businesses are dependent on them?

Seems like you are saying bank loans are a requirement?

No I am saying you personally are not forced to get a loan if you don't want too , I and many others do take out loans and are happy to do so from the bank because we make money from the loan we get , its a personal choice we all make .

Staying on the dole and living of the hard work of others is not an option .

 

[RupieDupie]

No I am saying you personally are not forced to get a loan if you don't want too , I and many others do take out loans and are happy to do so from the bank because we make money from the loan we get , its a personal choice we all make .

Staying on the dole and living of the hard work of others is not an option .

How does a person afford something like a house without a home loan (and / or a relative dying)? There is a pretence of choice. In an ideal world a person working a median income could afford to buy a house without going through a bank.

That's why people who rort the welfare system are smarter than the plebs who work for their boss and a bank for thirty years, even at multiple jobs, to pay off something at ~3.5x actual value (not including interest) and live at the poverty line while doing so, without any perks of health care cards and power bill assistance etc These guys are suckers.

It's also going to be even funnier how much welfare will cost when the current generation, who cannot afford housing, get to retirement age and the dumbass government has to pay them more welfare for living expenses as well as rent.

 

[Pie eyed]

This government body has become even more useless and slow in recent times. Recently it was shown just how long it was taking centrelink to process claims and for the individuals to receive there money. I am not condoning the notion of a dole bludger or someone 'grabbing from the government' actually think these terms do more bad than good but theres a lot of people (including myself) who centrelink would improve my life greatly. I have a part time job but am back studying full time with a small amount of financial and social assistance (low income health care card, independence allowance) allowing me to focus more predominantly on my studies and creating a work ready individual who will then significantly contribute to the social welfare system through taxes. Applied for these things 3 weeks ago and am still being processed putting significant financial stress that isn't needed. Has anyone been through similar process or have any lighthearted or interesting stories regarding there interaction with centrelink?

Abbott cut 30% of their staff......go shit on his doorstep.

 

[Power Raid]

How does a person afford something like a house without a home loan (and / or a relative dying)? There is a pretence of choice. In an ideal world a person working a median income could afford to buy a house without going through a bank.

That's why people who rort the welfare system are smarter than the plebs who work for their boss and a bank for thirty years, even at multiple jobs, to pay off something at ~3.5x actual value (not including interest) and live at the poverty line while doing so, without any perks of health care cards and power bill assistance etc These guys are suckers.

It's also going to be even funnier how much welfare will cost when the current generation, who cannot afford housing, get to retirement age and the dumbass government has to pay them more welfare for living expenses as well as rent.

it's actually not that hard if you focus on increase your income and assets rather than being a now now and buying debt

 

[Crankyhawk]

You realise for the 31% to be due to a consultant being on holidays it would mean that 31% of job consultants would have to be on holiday all the time ?

This would be despite the fact anyway that your form to say you have searched for work is submitted online and by the way submitting a form is not a meeting .

Lets be real for some the dole is a lifestyle choice .

You clearly do not get how often public service people take sick leave then...

 

[Crankyhawk]

can someone explain this to me: how come centrelink seem to make impossible for uni students (our future) carers (our present) or pensioners who paid tax all their life (our past) to get any sort of money out of them yet all those fit young people that went over to fight for isis in the middle east were on different pensions and the latest clown arrested in Melbourne for sending money to isis was on a disability pension

Disability pension sometimes is just a matter of having a dodgy doctor write you up for mental health issues - having had to complete some of these forms for inpatient psych (for continuation) there isn't much substantiation asked.

 

[geelong_crazy26]

How does a person afford something like a house without a home loan (and / or a relative dying)? There is a pretence of choice. In an ideal world a person working a median income could afford to buy a house without going through a bank.

That's why people who rort the welfare system are smarter than the plebs who work for their boss and a bank for thirty years, even at multiple jobs, to pay off something at ~3.5x actual value (not including interest) and live at the poverty line while doing so, without any perks of health care cards and power bill assistance etc These guys are suckers.

It's also going to be even funnier how much welfare will cost when the current generation, who cannot afford housing, get to retirement age and the dumbass government has to pay them more welfare for living expenses as well as rent.

So take the dole away from people who refuse to work its a simple solution. Than they have a choice between work or nothing.

The tax payer does not care about you owning a home, they care about their money .

 

[Crankyhawk]

It's also probably why the NDIS has been introduced to replace the same but better service of the DSC.

The DSC will actually go into centrelink and demand centrelink provide services and support to applicants who can't look after themselves properly. Many applicants with needs often aren't aware of their entitlements or can't explain what they need. Centrelink abuse this inability and simply turn them away. The applicant can go to the DSC and a suitably trained person, who knows the person and their needs, then takes the reigns.

Under the NDIS, the applicant can turn to a website................and get the same shit treatment by NDIS as they do centrelink.

Its worse as the NDIA lack any experience as to what or how they are supposed to manage the various "consumers" and "Service providers", particularly when they start from an assumed position that the "consumer" is competent to decide to hire and fire the provider. I know of one autistic patient who unfortunately verbals a lot (basically threatens to punch people or blow things up) but doesn't act on it as long as he takes his medications, which are usually given by support workers at accommodation. And support workers take him to his medical appointments.

NDIS empowered him to sack his provider and change.
New providers meet him, he starts threatening them as above, new providers go "thanks but no thanks, not working with you". As result loses accomodation, no longer taking medication, is now homeless and lost to follow up.

 

[Crankyhawk]

You use the word maybe. Well Maybe.....NOT .
You can pedal it as right wing extremism by pulling up irrelevant examples all you like.
People who have no means to keep themselves alive should , out of the kindness of the hearts of others, be given resources to stay healthy, sheltered and fed.

They aren't robbing from the rich, Robin Hood style. They are robbing from the average who are often struggling themselves.

So you would close down government subsidised nursing homes then? Would save pension money I guess, and fix a lot of hospital bed access issues at the same time. Life expectancy would take a statistical hit, but we are only talking about people in their non productive years....

 

[RupieDupie]

it's actually not that hard if you focus on increase your income and assets rather than being a now now and buying debt

Ah, but we've been through this discussion before, a person making ~median salary (if all Australians increase their income, median salary increases and therefore so do relative house prices) after tax and paying rent, seeing as they don't own a home, will take ~35 years to save for a ~median house (there will be interest added but in ~35 years median house prices will increase relative to median income. House prices are increasing at ~7% per year) but I gave them a generous ~$18,000 per year to live off that they still need to use to pay for power, clothing, communications, food, transportation etc I'm sure they will be able to get a nice portfolio of assets based on the ~18,000 pa they get.

But I know what you're going to say - move to the country (therefore >50% working Australians need to move to the country)

Or utilise tech innovations, hmmm, how come buying a dilapidated house or piece of land well over actual value does not lead to any tech innovations in the housing industry? Where did the growth come from? Australia's property market is valued in trillions of dollars, surely we are getting some kind of 'innovative' return for investing that amount of money?

 

[RupieDupie]

So take the dole away from people who refuse to work its a simple solution. Than they have a choice between work or nothing.

The tax payer does not care about you owning a home, they care about their money .

So would you recommend taking away money from people who increase their gain at the expense of others?

I'm pretty sure Australian tax payers think about owning a home, and I'm pretty sure tax payers would not want to pay more for the same shit due to obscenely rising house prices.

 

[RupieDupie]

Further to this IMO there are six reasons (maybe more) why a person will believe that Australian house prices are fair (note "believe that housing prices are fair" does not include those people who "believe housing prices are unfair" even if they do or do not own house - the scale below only relates to people who believe that house prices in Australia are fair).

1) The person owns at least one house and wants return on their investment, therefore, need a strong pleb mentality. Pleb creator.
2) The person owns at least one house, but house prices were not obscene when they bought into the market and / or are obscenely rich, and do not realise the gravity of the current market and / or do not give a shit because it doesn't affect them. Pleb enabler.
3) The person bought a house at an obscene price and have a "sucker" mentality, they got suckered in by the Carnie folk and therefore need other people to be suckered in to make themselves feel better about their choice and / or they need a strong pleb mentality to make a return on their investment. Sucked in and pleb creator.
4) The person bought a house at an obscene price but do not understand that they were ripped off, even though they are now eating catfood (they presume, according to the propaganda that "sacrifices need to be made to own a home"). Passive pleb, and sucked in, and pleb enabler.
5) The person does not yet own a house, but would like to buy one at the obscene prices, but they are uneducated w.r.t. the ins and outs of the housing market and / or fooled by the propaganda. Passive pleb and pleb enabler.
6) They are educated as to the ins and outs of the housing market, know that housing prices are obscene but still believe that housing prices are fair. Ultra Pleb, sado-masochist and pleb creator.

 

[geelong_crazy26]

So would you recommend taking away money from people who increase their gain at the expense of others?

I'm pretty sure Australian tax payers think about owning a home, and I'm pretty sure tax payers would not want to pay more for the same shit due to obscenely rising house prices.

Feelings and what you want are not relevant. Truth is dole bludgers are a drain on the economy and are a cost we can get rid of without any harm .

Why should the tax payer be burdened with your problems owning a home?

The way the economy works is we need people and organisations with large amounts of concerntrared capital because they are best able to stimulate economic growth and no body can stimulate economic growth better than big banks.

 

[geelong_crazy26]

Further to this IMO there are six reasons (maybe more) why a person will believe that Australian house prices are fair (note "believe that housing prices are fair" does not include those people who "believe housing prices are unfair" even if they do or do not own house - the scale below only relates to people who believe that house prices in Australia are fair).

1) The person owns at least one house and wants return on their investment, therefore, need a strong pleb mentality. Pleb creator.
2) The person owns at least one house, but house prices were not obscene when they bought into the market and / or are obscenely rich, and do not realise the gravity of the current market and / or do not give a shit because it doesn't affect them. Pleb enabler.
3) The person bought a house at an obscene price and have a "sucker" mentality, they got suckered in by the Carnie folk and therefore need other people to be suckered in to make themselves feel better about their choice and / or they need a strong pleb mentality to make a return on their investment. Sucked in and pleb creator.
4) The person bought a house at an obscene price but do not understand that they were ripped off, even though they are now eating catfood (they presume, according to the propaganda that "sacrifices need to be made to own a home"). Passive pleb, and sucked in, and pleb enabler.
5) The person does not yet own a house, but would like to buy one at the obscene prices, but they are uneducated w.r.t. the ins and outs of the housing market and / or fooled by the propaganda. Passive pleb and pleb enabler.
6) They are educated as to the ins and outs of the housing market, know that housing prices are obscene but still believe that housing prices are fair. Ultra Pleb, sado-masochist and pleb creator.

Life is not fair so get used to it.

 

[RupieDupie]

Feelings and what you want are not relevant. Truth is dole bludgers are a drain on the economy and are a cost we can get rid of without any harm .

Why should the tax payer be burdened with your problems owning a home?

The way the economy works is we need people and organisations with large amounts of concerntrared capital because they are best able to stimulate economic growth and no body can stimulate economic growth better than big banks.

You are conflating two points to make what you believe is a coherent argument, but now unfortunately you have created a position I don't hold.

1) I'm stating that if we celebrate the people who rort the system on the top, then why not celebrate the people who rort the system on the bottom - there is no difference

2) People like Pablo Escobar created a huge empire with many jobs and a huge economy but the US in conjunction with the Colombian government hunted him down and killed him

3) The tax payer does not need to care about my position only their own inability to afford housing - my argument is not a personal one

Life is not fair so get used to it.

Did you read that gem of pleb mentality on back of a weetbix box?

 

[NSWCROW]

Disability pension sometimes is just a matter of having a dodgy doctor write you up for mental health issues - having had to complete some of these forms for inpatient psych (for continuation) there isn't much substantiation asked.

Pre-Gillard you'd be correct.
Then the Libs/Murdoch kicked up a stink for years over it until Gillard blinked and tightened restrictions.

1 - Get your GP to sign whatever
2 - Show said note to centrelink assessor
If deemed eligible -

3 - Consult with govt appointed doctor

 

[Herne Hill Hammer]

https://www.theguardian.com/busines...ures-offshore-law-firm-found?CMP=share_btn_tw


An offshore law firm regarded Serco, a company that runs sensitive government services in Australia and the UK, as a “high-risk” client, expressing concern about its “history of problems, failures, fatal errors and overcharging”, the Paradise Papers reveal.

Chief among the law firm’s concerns about Serco were allegations of fraud, the cover-up of the abuse of detainees, and the mishandling of radioactive waste.


Yep
That same Serco......


call the ******* election

Really? You think Liberal are the only flavour of government that has awarded Serco contracts for anything? They've been around for years in government spaces.

I'm not saying they're any good, from what I've actually seen of them, they're pretty ordinary.

I've served in the military and worked in the Victorian prison system and have quite often worked or crossed paths with contractors in both of those areas. The difference in staff is quite stark. I guess that's the difference between needing to make a profit and not.