CEY and Hugh

[SellarStardom]

Wanted to have a look at our two big bodied mids side by side and was surprised to see CEY average more disposals and both were about the same in fantasy points for the 2018 season.

CEY is seen by most as depth and borderline from a list spot perspective whilst Hugh is lauded as a best 22.

I recognise that Hugh has a better capacity up forward, but CEY is a better extractor for contested possessions. Interested in why people see CEY as almost a list clogger as I see him as an important piece in our midfield depth mix alongside Hugh.

 

[Pugsley]

I prefer Grayson and Hugh.

 

[Golumless]

Hugh is faster, better defensively, better disposer of the football and more versatile.

CEY really suffers in that his main thing is done better by someone else, in M.Crouch. To double up on that issue, both are as slow as each other and really a side can't carry too many slow players. So what would be initially peripheral things such as what is listed above become much more important to his selection. CEY can't compete with Hugh there.

CEY really maxes out as good reliable depth here.

 

[1990crow]

Greenwood’s only downside is his tank isnt AFL standard. If he can start getting 20 touches a game he will be a weapon. Have to wait and see if that actually happens though..

 

[kulak]

Hugh is faster, better defensively, better disposer of the football and more versatile.

CEY really suffers in that his main thing is done better by someone else, in M.Crouch. To double up on that issue, both are as slow as each other and really a side can't carry too many slow players. So what would be initially peripheral things such as what is listed above become much more important to his selection. CEY can't compete with Hugh there.

CEY really maxes out as good reliable depth here.

That’s what I instinctively thought but:
- CEY 71% DE and 244 metres gained
- Greenwood 62% DE and 194 metres gained

And that’s with Greenwood having more kicks per handball, so it’s not due to CEY kicking long to a contest every time

I think the main difference is that Greenwood does the essence of that role slightly better. He wins slightly more contests, and is a bit better defensively around the contest.

And carrying all three slowish mids (Greenwood CEY MCrouch) would mean getting sliced up on the outside.

 

[pjcrows]

I'd like us to use Greenwood's height to better advantage up forward. I love him and yes he wins the ball but he suffers bigtime on the outside. Mids need to do both these days.

 

[StonesThrow]

A comparison between these two is where stats are useless and the eye is much more reliable.

CEY is a pretty handy depth player while Greenwood is a first 22 on baller who will benefit from increased fitness. He's better at tackling, has much better hands, better overhead, smarter in congestion and kicks goals.

 

[SellarStardom]

That’s what I instinctively thought but:
- CEY 71% DE and 244 metres gained
- Greenwood 62% DE and 194 metres gained

And that’s with Greenwood having more kicks per handball, so it’s not due to CEY kicking long to a contest every time

I think the main difference is that Greenwood does the essence of that role slightly better. He wins slightly more contests, and is a bit better defensively around the contest.

And carrying all three slowish mids (Greenwood CEY MCrouch) would mean getting sliced up on the outside.

This is the thing, the more I looked at the two players the closer they got.
Hugh is better defensively but by tackle count (pressure on the man), CEY average 1 less tackle a game.
Hugh is better as a marking forward, but then CEY is a better disposed and has more metres gained.

Hugh is more appealing to the eye in that he moves with more urgency and energy and this fools people I feel.

I don't disagree that both along with Crouch can't be in the same side, but both suffered as the season went on. If you look at Hugh, 4 out of 5 of his lowest possession games were in the back half of the year.

Can we alternate these two or manage their work loads better between AFL and SANFL and keep their productivity high??

 

[Shaz2012]

Hugh has more impact with his disposals. Does more damage. Needs to improve his tank though. CEY is under rated, but I don’t think you “find” a spot for him when everyone is fit. Whereas I think you find a spot for Greenwood because of what impact he can have.

 

[mattymac]

They're both just depth when Brouch, Sloane, Mrouch and Gibbs are fit.

Greenwood is possibly the most overrated player on this board.

If he's playing every game we've buggered our year

 

[1970crow]

They're both just depth when Brouch, Sloane, Mrouch and Gibbs are fit.

Greenwood is possibly the most overrated player on this board.

If he's playing every game we've buggered our year

Hugh is rated because we see him have 5 minute patches where just awesome and being a late returner to the game we anticipate those to become more often. Sadly, his body is yet to be able to complete a preseason and he seems to pick up soft tissue injuries regularly. He’s been miles away from an AFL standard midfielder’s tank, but there seems to continually be obstacles put in place to stop that from occurring. I think you’ve been overly harsh, but you may end up being right.

 

[Kane McGoodwin]

I'd like us to use Greenwood's height to better advantage up forward. I love him and yes he wins the ball but he suffers bigtime on the outside. Mids need to do both these days.

Particularly with Gov having gone, as Greenwood is a decent contested mark.

Would like to rotate him with other mids such as Sloane, Brouch & Gibbs up forward.

 

[jackster83]

Greenwood has quicker reflexes and is great at smothering and deflecting the ball. CEY seems to fumble those ones in close.

Both hurt us with their lack of two way running. Greenwood having yet another interrupted pre-season won't help him build his tank - I think he will spend more time up forward where he's shown he can be damaging.

I think we will rotate more players through the midfield for shorter durations. Gooch and Milera are quicker and better by foot than our other midfielders (who let's face it, aren't crash hot in this regard) and will/should be spending some time in there.

CEY will be relying on injuries to get games. He's pretty handy depth to have.

 

[The Sloane Ranger]

That’s what I instinctively thought but:
- CEY 71% DE and 244 metres gained
- Greenwood 62% DE and 194 metres gained

And that’s with Greenwood having more kicks per handball, so it’s not due to CEY kicking long to a contest every time

I think the main difference is that Greenwood does the essence of that role slightly better. He wins slightly more contests, and is a bit better defensively around the contest.

And carrying all three slowish mids (Greenwood CEY MCrouch) would mean getting sliced up on the outside.

Hugh can also push forward and actually looks dangerous when forward

 

[Thetrader15]

I'd like us to use Greenwood's height to better advantage up forward. I love him and yes he wins the ball but he suffers bigtime on the outside. Mids need to do both these days.

I thought he was great up forward late last year. I think he should swap with Sloane as 70:30 forwar:mid

He has great agility and is strong overhead, while having the ability to intercept the ball in contests with his massive reach

Meanwhile, CEY is solid on the inside but has no defensive pressure and doesn't run anywhere near hard enough defensively. Once the ball is more than 2m away, we are playing with 17

 

[mattymac]

Hugh is rated because we see him have 5 minute patches where just awesome and being a late returner to the game we anticipate those to become more often. Sadly, his body is yet to be able to complete a preseason and he seems to pick up soft tissue injuries regularly. He’s been miles away from an AFL standard midfielder’s tank, but there seems to continually be obstacles put in place to stop that from occurring. I think you’ve been overly harsh, but you may end up being right.

Don't worry I had high hopes he would be an absolute cat B steal. Unfortunately he's only turned out to be decent insurance but free insurance isn't the worst thing in the world

 

[Houston]

This thread was good for a laugh. Greenwood has demonstrated in big games and crucial moments that he's a match winner with weapons that make him a difficult matchup wherever we place him on the ground. To suggest that he's anything less than best 22 when fit is absolutely hysterical.

 

[SellarStardom]

They're both just depth when Brouch, Sloane, Mrouch and Gibbs are fit.

Greenwood is possibly the most overrated player on this board.

If he's playing every game we've buggered our year

This is the main thing, Hugh is actually borderline 22, particularly if McAdam performs as a pressure marking forward and Fog steps up.

But you get the impression from this board he is top 10.

 

[The Sloane Ranger]

This is the main thing, Hugh is actually borderline 22, particularly if McAdam performs as a pressure marking forward and Fog steps up.

But you get the impression from this board he is top 10.

Fog and McAdam completely different roles

Pyke's game plan centres around midfield winning the contest and giving us good field position and for this reason alone Hugh will be in our best 22 next year and beyond

 

[Tex Danger]

I'd like us to use Greenwood's height to better advantage up forward. I love him and yes he wins the ball but he suffers bigtime on the outside. Mids need to do both these days.

I think we will unless we replace Gov with Fog. We did see Greenwood up forward more in the 2nd half of the year with relatively good effect at times. Not sure if this was around the same time Gibbs was spending decent fwd minutes also or after kind of as a replacement for his time.

If we have Tex, JJ, Lynch, Fog all in the forward mix then you'd really want 2 speedy guys to partner them most of the time and while Greenwood would still have time up forward it'd be minimal.

If we go with an extra smaller/mobile type then I can see Greenwood having significant forward time to help stretch defences

 

[Kane McGoodwin]

This is the main thing, Hugh is actually borderline 22, particularly if McAdam performs as a pressure marking forward and Fog steps up.

But you get the impression from this board he is top 10.

Who has claimed Greenwood is a top 10 player as I haven't seen anyone suggest it?

 

[WetCrow1991]

Some of the posts in this thread are hilarious, borderline best 22 righto...

Hugh finished 2018 playing every game, showed improvement in his second year playing in the side and finished 5th in the Club Champion award, albeit in a down year for the club.

To suggest Hugh is borderline best 22 is lunacy. Is he one of our best players in terms of overall output? No, but he is in the top 5 for talent ceiling and gamebreaking ability he has shown at times. Obviously at nearly 27 he is hampered by a late return to the game and fitness issues connected to that, but * me is he a lock to play if uninjured.

Edit:

Oh and anyone thinking of diagreeing with me re:his talent, have a think about what he has done, and how quickly he has done it.

 

[Golumless]

This is the main thing, Hugh is actually borderline 22, particularly if McAdam performs as a pressure marking forward and Fog steps up.

But you get the impression from this board he is top 10.

Hugh hasn't been borderline best 22 for a year and a half. Easily in the 10-15 range of players we select.

Equally to that neither McAdam (small/mid forward), or Fogarty (forward) is competing with Greenwood at this time. I do say this time because Fog switching to the midfield would see him inevitably go past Greenwood, but that's more a fight no player on this list is winning, then actually a knock on Greenwood.

 

[Thylacinus]

Why do some posting here allege Hugh is slow? The following thread has been bumped a number of times. I suggest those who post on players speed become familiar with it: https://www.bigfooty.com/forum/threads/some-testing-results-updated-for-2018.1146194/

 

[John Who]

That’s what I instinctively thought but:
- CEY 71% DE and 244 metres gained
- Greenwood 62% DE and 194 metres gained

And that’s with Greenwood having more kicks per handball, so it’s not due to CEY kicking long to a contest every time

I think the main difference is that Greenwood does the essence of that role slightly better. He wins slightly more contests, and is a bit better defensively around the contest.

And carrying all three slowish mids (Greenwood CEY MCrouch) would mean getting sliced up on the outside.

The stats you highlighted are likely misleading because Greenwood appeared to have spent much more time in the forward line than CEY. So I think playing in the midfield allows you to have more metres gained overall.

Regarding the comparisons, I think both are good contested ball getters, but overall Greenwood has the better class to do more damage.
Greenwood looks to have better brain when there's congestion, with very quick instinctive handpasses. His marking is also a real weapon for a midfielder type, which allows him to be able to float through the forward line with more effectiveness. So overall Greenwood has the better impact per given game (from what I can tell),