CFC Stagnation?

[40yearBLUE]

This isnt a thread about if we should sack Ratten or not, its a thread about if the CFC has stagnated. The CFC itself has seen that changes must be made in recruitment, shown by the demotion of Wayne Hughes and making Shane Rodgers national recruitment manager. This shows that improvment is needed. Is the coach of the reserves doing enough to develope players? Is the development coach the best man for the job, if not, could we poach a Michael Turner for that role for example. I dont think we should rush out and offer Turner crazy money but questions like this should be asked constantly.

Its all very well to put people into positions but results must justify perservering with them. Just because Ratten is a head coach, doesnt mean that given infinate time he will deliver a flag. Everything should be reviewed in the right time frame and improvment in all areas strived for. If you arnt pushing ahead, you arembeing left behind. If we dont make finals Rattens position will be reviewed, but it should be reviewed regardless. Even if we win the flag. Review doesnt mean getting the sack, it means looked at with a critical eye as to where improvment can come from.

Fair comments. Results (eventually) must justify perseverance with and if you think the club would not be constantly reviewing then the thread is an even bigger waste than I thought it was at the time I posted my previous post, although it is getting more and more pointless with each post anyway. The club does all of these things all of the time. What they have not done and I am relying on them not to do, is to make the type of knee jerk reactions to every loss, every onfield mistake every everything that the muppets on here call for, you included. Not every decision needs to be questioned, nor can they be, because the factors that contributed to the decision in the first place may never be replicated. I mean really, an are we stagnating thread at the half way point of a season we are 6/6 in? With the injury list we have/had? Come on.

Take your posting direction for example. Skilled recruitment team makes years and years of observation, calculation regarding other players currently on the list etc etc etc, just for a bunch of wireless warriors call into question whether our picks 30 to 60 have been quite as effective as they could have been, and then miraculously, when another intelligent poster points out the effort made by the club under the direction of whom most here would have us replace our coach with and them not look quite so good by comparison its all, oh well there are other clubs that did better than us. So the frig what. And in who'se calculations, under what criteria, at what moment in time, by who'se authority, blah di blah di blah di mindless blather.

On the other hand, the glass IS half full, we have a good list that has some bad luck. What is the point of all this? There isnt one is the correct answer just to save you some time. Which brings me back to the point I have been making since my first post to this pointless thread. We are not qualified to understand the decisions made let alone question them. We are the supporters but we collectively do a far worse job of our jobs than the club does of theirs. Their job is to try win games our job just to remind you and the rest yet again is to support. Thats it. Support. You understand support? Support is not question, not second guess, not complain when it seems to not go as you had hoped. It is to support. How about we try doing that a bit better? How about that as a thread. Can we be better supporters?

 

[mikeythemoocow]

Fair comments. Results (eventually) must justify perseverance with and if you think the club would not be constantly reviewing then the thread is an even bigger waste than I thought it was at the time I posted my previous post, although it is getting more and more pointless with each post anyway. The club does all of these things all of the time. What they have not done and I am relying on them not to do, is to make the type of knee jerk reactions to every loss, every onfield mistake every everything that the muppets on here call for, you included. Not every decision needs to be questioned, nor can they be, because the factors that contributed to the decision in the first place may never be replicated. I mean really, an are we stagnating thread at the half way point of a season we are 6/6 in? With the injury list we have/had? Come on.

Take your posting direction for example. Skilled recruitment team makes years and years of observation, calculation regarding other players currently on the list etc etc etc, just for a bunch of wireless warriors call into question whether our picks 30 to 60 have been quite as effective as they could have been, and then miraculously, when another intelligent poster points out the effort made by the club under the direction of whom most here would have us replace our coach with and them not look quite so good by comparison its all, oh well there are other clubs that did better than us. So the frig what. And in who'se calculations, under what criteria, at what moment in time, by who'se authority, blah di blah di blah di mindless blather.

On the other hand, the glass IS half full, we have a good list that has some bad luck. What is the point of all this? There isnt one is the correct answer just to save you some time.

The point of all this is you say to everyone trust the club. Thats good advice coming from someone called 40yearBLUE, so I know you are at least 40, perhaps 50 or even near to 60. Thats paitients showing. Our last flag was in 1995 so say you can sort of remember that flag but not really cause you were 5 years old, these people are 22 now and dont have the benefit of years of wisdom or remembering years of success for the club. They are emotionally involved with a club that has in their lifetime been incomparable to the club you or I remember so dont be so quick to treat other posters badly because they cant see things your way.

In the end the club isnt going to listen to anyone on here and its just a way to fill in time till the next game, a place to vent when we are bad and crow when we are good cause nobody else wants to listen.

 

[Stig O'Hara]

The point of all this is you say to everyone trust the club. Thats good advice coming from someone called 40yearBLUE, so I know you are at least 40, perhaps 50 or even near to 60. Thats paitients showing. Our last flag was in 1995 so say you can sort of remember that flag but not really cause you were 5 years old, these people are 22 now and dont have the benefit of years of wisdom or remembering years of success for the club. They are emotionally involved with a club that has in their lifetime been incomparable to the club you or I remember so dont be so quick to treat other posters badly because they cant see things your way.

You make an excellent point mtmc, us older folk grew up knowing that every year we were a cert for the finals, and during that amazing 20 years we won 7 flags.

But if you look back at the last 30 years we have only won 2, so a lot of the younger supporters wouldn't have experienced that genuine dominance that we had over the opposition.

 

[40yearBLUE]

The point of all this is you say to everyone trust the club. Thats good advice coming from someone called 40yearBLUE, so I know you are at least 40, perhaps 50 or even near to 60. Thats paitients showing. Our last flag was in 1995 so say you can sort of remember that flag but not really cause you were 5 years old, these people are 22 now and dont have the benefit of years of wisdom or remembering years of success for the club. They are emotionally involved with a club that has in their lifetime been incomparable to the club you or I remember so dont be so quick to treat other posters badly because they cant see things your way.

In the end the club isnt going to listen to anyone on here and its just a way to fill in time till the next game, a place to vent when we are bad and crow when we are good cause nobody else wants to listen.

Now we have a discussion worth having.

Very valid points. I am indeed 50. I got my first membership in 1972 at the age of 10 and I joined the cheer squad the following year and was a member for about 5 years (I forget exactly now, my memory is starting to fail). What I do remember about the cheer squad is that every cheer squad would meet after the games (all were Sat arvo back then) in an upstairs cafe about 3 doors down Swanston St from Y&J's. I thought it was very sophisticated.

But I digress. The discussion worth having is who is more entitled to feel we are owed success, those older fans that got to expect a GF appearance every second year on average (we made the GF 15 times in the 30 years from 1968 to 1999 for 8 flags. Or fans that were born in the late 80's and were 5 or 6 the last time we won one.

On the one hand we miss what we once had, if you are 22 you have never had what we had so cant miss what you have not had.

That is a good discussion. No-one would be right or wrong (as opposed to nearly every poster being wrong) and could just as easily fill the time between games.

But just on the second guessing or whining or why didnt we do this or why did we do that kind of posting that fills the voids of this place and the context proposed by your post. I have progressed with the times. The 15 GF's in 30 years was a different era. The rules have changed to stop that happening. The rules changed because of our 15 GF's. We ignored those rules and paid a big penalty for it. So much so that if you are 22 you in fact have never seen us legitimately win any flags. The last flag we won fair and square was 1987. The way flags are won now have changed. Its time some of the posters to this forum understood that. It takes 5-8 years of stable management from the Chairman to the bootstudder, it takes adherence to the chosen path, it takes an incredible amount of luck, and there are no short cuts. When you all understand that, and forget the past golden era and accept it will never be like that again you might start to follow the now accepted paths to success. Its not new. These are not my IP, I am just accepting of the way things are, not the way I wish they were.

 

[JustaBattler]

Patience is an investment it costs and should be priced - otherwise it is just a con job. The CFC is nothing without supporters investing in membership, goodwill and time.

Give the membership a clear direction and a clear mission and a set of rules and expectations about behaviour, performance and members will give back patience and support.

Treat members like fools ask for patience without strong foundations - and all you are doing is pissing in the wind.

Kernahan as President and Ratten as Coach linked memories of past glory with the promise of tommorrow - this promise has bought time and patience a plenty and increasing membership. Each year's progress has bought increasing faith and also by rights - increasing expectation.

Success is built upon the investemnt of capital - money, time, suport in all its many forms. An ability to attract and retain the best at Board level, Management and Coaching.

In a perfect world - the Club becomes a perpetuity - not delivering a Premiership every year - but being competitive and able to match it with any team any time. All this is based on a system and a culture and a way of doing football 'business'. We are a long way behind too many Clubs as far as that standard goes.

Yes the body corporate has become increasingly impatient. It has every right to be so. It has been a long time between drinks - and I don't mean even winning a Premiership.

If you wish to sit on your fat middle aged arse and wait - good luck, you are just meat for the competition. A lot of members are tired of being meat and fair game. A lot of members are embarrassed about being smacked as easily as we are. A lot of members wonder at the sillines of the notion that you can replace hard bodied men with bony teenagers and so called 'athletes' instead of footballers - and kid ourselves that a team made up predominantly of nancy boys with pretty haircuts and fat salaries paid for what? are going to deliver the 17th Premiership ?? Dream on.

So yes by all means members should be advised to be patient and supportive - but no way will a real Carlton man continue to accept this second rate shyte passed of as proud to wear the Blue colours.

So yes the pressure is on 'champ' - The type of defeat suffered against Essendon, repeated by Saints and cemented in place by Adelaide and then put up in video by Port has pushed the Club backwards two years worth of respect.

The Club has all the talent it needs to beat anyone - it is time they started delivering. Geelong and West Coast performances are acceptable defeats - the previous four were not acceptable by any measure - for any reason whatsoever - they were an EPIC FAIL.

If you disagree with this - then so be it, I know where you stand and what you stand for - nothing except half backed words like the nice servings of tea and scones you so lovingly recall.

A lot of players have already signed off their careers at CFC - my hope is that those coming back from injury care enough about Ratten to save his - by respecting what the CFC wants and expects enough to start being hunters - not hunted down and bullied little boys.

It is that simple now.

 

[thylacine60]

Patience is an investment it costs and should be priced - otherwise it is just a con job. The CFC is nothing without supporters investing in membership, goodwill and time.

Give the membership a clear direction and a clear mission and a set of rules and expectations about behaviour, performance and members will give back patience and support.

Treat members like fools ask for patience without strong foundations - and all you are doing is pissing in the wind.

Kernahan as President and Ratten as Coach linked memories of past glory with the promise of tommorrow - this promise has bought time and patience a plenty and increasing membership. Each year's progress has bought increasing faith and also by rights - increasing expectation.

Success is built upon the investemnt of capital - money, time, suport in all its many forms. An ability to attract and retain the best at Board level, Management and Coaching.

In a perfect world - the Club becomes a perpetuity - not delivering a Premiership every year - but being competitive and able to match it with any team any time. All this is based on a system and a culture and a way of doing football 'business'. We are a long way behind too many Clubs as far as that standard goes.

Yes the body corporate has become increasingly impatient. It has every right to be so. It has been a long time between drinks - and I don't mean even winning a Premiership.

If you wish to sit on your fat middle aged arse and wait - good luck, you are just meat for the competition. A lot of members are tired of being meat and fair game. A lot of members are embarrassed about being smacked as easily as we are. A lot of members wonder at the sillines of the notion that you can replace hard bodied men with bony teenagers and so called 'athletes' instead of footballers - and kid ourselves that a team made up predominantly of nancy boys with pretty haircuts and fat salaries paid for what? are going to deliver the 17th Premiership ?? Dream on.

So yes by all means members should be advised to be patient and supportive - but no way will a real Carlton man continue to accept this second rate shyte passed of as proud to wear the Blue colours.

So yes the pressure is on 'champ' - The type of defeat suffered against Essendon, repeated by Saints and cemented in place by Adelaide and then put up in video by Port has pushed the Club backwards two years worth of respect.

The Club has all the talent it needs to beat anyone - it is time they started delivering. Geelong and West Coast performances are acceptable defeats - the previous four were not acceptable by any measure - for any reason whatsoever - they were an EPIC FAIL.

If you disagree with this - then so be it, I know where you stand and what you stand for - nothing except half backed words like the nice servings of tea and scones you so lovingly recall.

A lot of players have already signed off their careers at CFC - my hope is that those coming back from injury care enough about Ratten to save his - by respecting what the CFC wants and expects enough to start being hunters - not hunted down and bullied little boys.

It is that simple now.

Waded through this error riddled piece of dribble. 2 things - lots of words, says nothing. Also, 40Man may be middle-aged but at least the old fella can spell. FMD...

 

[mikeythemoocow]

You talk about needing stability etc. at the club which is true. Just how long could be debated. But it all comes down to who you are talking too, you just keep saying like Geelong have paitients, but your trying to tell this to people who the club have never given any reason to have faith in them.
The way you are arguing with people is like Denis Pagan. "This is whats going to happen." or " this is what we need". And while the message might be right, if nobody is listening to how you say it then what is the point. You have to adapt and become a Ratten, Malthouse or Roos. Engague the cuddle generation.
You have years of football experience to draw on so you should be able to mount a pretty persuasive case towards your oppinion.

 

[40yearBLUE]

Waded through this error riddled piece of dribble. 2 things - lots of words, says nothing. Also, 40Man may be middle-aged but at least the old fella can spell. FMD...

Hard to argue with or not respect this post. Says what I would have taken 3 paragraphs and a number of insults to say. Props as the kiddies say.

 

[The Coach]

Patience is an investment it costs and should be priced - otherwise it is just a con job. The CFC is nothing without supporters investing in membership, goodwill and time.

Give the membership a clear direction and a clear mission and a set of rules and expectations about behaviour, performance and members will give back patience and support.

Treat members like fools ask for patience without strong foundations - and all you are doing is pissing in the wind.

Kernahan as President and Ratten as Coach linked memories of past glory with the promise of tommorrow - this promise has bought time and patience a plenty and increasing membership. Each year's progress has bought increasing faith and also by rights - increasing expectation.

Success is built upon the investemnt of capital - money, time, suport in all its many forms. An ability to attract and retain the best at Board level, Management and Coaching.

In a perfect world - the Club becomes a perpetuity - not delivering a Premiership every year - but being competitive and able to match it with any team any time. All this is based on a system and a culture and a way of doing football 'business'. We are a long way behind too many Clubs as far as that standard goes.

Yes the body corporate has become increasingly impatient. It has every right to be so. It has been a long time between drinks - and I don't mean even winning a Premiership.

If you wish to sit on your fat middle aged arse and wait - good luck, you are just meat for the competition. A lot of members are tired of being meat and fair game. A lot of members are embarrassed about being smacked as easily as we are. A lot of members wonder at the sillines of the notion that you can replace hard bodied men with bony teenagers and so called 'athletes' instead of footballers - and kid ourselves that a team made up predominantly of nancy boys with pretty haircuts and fat salaries paid for what? are going to deliver the 17th Premiership ?? Dream on.

So yes by all means members should be advised to be patient and supportive - but no way will a real Carlton man continue to accept this second rate shyte passed of as proud to wear the Blue colours.

So yes the pressure is on 'champ' - The type of defeat suffered against Essendon, repeated by Saints and cemented in place by Adelaide and then put up in video by Port has pushed the Club backwards two years worth of respect.

The Club has all the talent it needs to beat anyone - it is time they started delivering. Geelong and West Coast performances are acceptable defeats - the previous four were not acceptable by any measure - for any reason whatsoever - they were an EPIC FAIL.

If you disagree with this - then so be it, I know where you stand and what you stand for - nothing except half backed words like the nice servings of tea and scones you so lovingly recall.

A lot of players have already signed off their careers at CFC - my hope is that those coming back from injury care enough about Ratten to save his - by respecting what the CFC wants and expects enough to start being hunters - not hunted down and bullied little boys.

It is that simple now.

Love it

 

[The Coach]

Waded through this error riddled piece of dribble. 2 things - lots of words, says nothing. Also, 40Man may be middle-aged but at least the old fella can spell. FMD...

This is vindictive bullshit. The highlighted is pathetic

 

[thylacine60]

This is vindictive bullshit. The highlighted is pathetic

Love it.

 

[Beer n Skittles]

Patience is an investment it costs and should be priced - otherwise it is just a con job. The CFC is nothing without supporters investing in membership, goodwill and time.

Give the membership a clear direction and a clear mission and a set of rules and expectations about behaviour, performance and members will give back patience and support.

Treat members like fools ask for patience without strong foundations - and all you are doing is pissing in the wind.

Kernahan as President and Ratten as Coach linked memories of past glory with the promise of tommorrow - this promise has bought time and patience a plenty and increasing membership. Each year's progress has bought increasing faith and also by rights - increasing expectation.

Success is built upon the investemnt of capital - money, time, suport in all its many forms. An ability to attract and retain the best at Board level, Management and Coaching.

In a perfect world - the Club becomes a perpetuity - not delivering a Premiership every year - but being competitive and able to match it with any team any time. All this is based on a system and a culture and a way of doing football 'business'. We are a long way behind too many Clubs as far as that standard goes.

Yes the body corporate has become increasingly impatient. It has every right to be so. It has been a long time between drinks - and I don't mean even winning a Premiership.

If you wish to sit on your fat middle aged arse and wait - good luck, you are just meat for the competition. A lot of members are tired of being meat and fair game. A lot of members are embarrassed about being smacked as easily as we are. A lot of members wonder at the sillines of the notion that you can replace hard bodied men with bony teenagers and so called 'athletes' instead of footballers - and kid ourselves that a team made up predominantly of nancy boys with pretty haircuts and fat salaries paid for what? are going to deliver the 17th Premiership ?? Dream on.

So yes by all means members should be advised to be patient and supportive - but no way will a real Carlton man continue to accept this second rate shyte passed of as proud to wear the Blue colours.

So yes the pressure is on 'champ' - The type of defeat suffered against Essendon, repeated by Saints and cemented in place by Adelaide and then put up in video by Port has pushed the Club backwards two years worth of respect.

The Club has all the talent it needs to beat anyone - it is time they started delivering. Geelong and West Coast performances are acceptable defeats - the previous four were not acceptable by any measure - for any reason whatsoever - they were an EPIC FAIL.

If you disagree with this - then so be it, I know where you stand and what you stand for - nothing except half backed words like the nice servings of tea and scones you so lovingly recall.

A lot of players have already signed off their careers at CFC - my hope is that those coming back from injury care enough about Ratten to save his - by respecting what the CFC wants and expects enough to start being hunters - not hunted down and bullied little boys.

It is that simple now.

Please don't defend this stuff @ The Coach.
How can a team be 'made up predominantly of nancy boys' and still have 'all the talent it needs to beat anyone'? It's contradictory drivel

 

[The Coach]

Love it.

A thread to rival this one might be 'how the Carlton forum is stagnating' (old 3 ? mark emoticon)

 

[Stig O'Hara]

The Coach??

Okey dokey, gilly72 & igt22.... something or other welcome you to the pseudo/pseudo club.

 

[40yearBLUE]

You talk about needing stability etc. at the club which is true. Just how long could be debated. But it all comes down to who you are talking too, you just keep saying like Geelong have paitients, but your trying to tell this to people who the club have never given any reason to have faith in them.
The way you are arguing with people is like Denis Pagan. "This is whats going to happen." or " this is what we need". And while the message might be right, if nobody is listening to how you say it then what is the point. You have to adapt and become a Ratten, Malthouse or Roos. Engague the cuddle generation.
You have years of football experience to draw on so you should be able to mount a pretty persuasive case towards your oppinion.

What are you talking about? The club have never given any reason to have faith in them???? You cannot possibly be serious.

Lets for the sake of some agreement acknowledge that we are in a new era of football, totally removed by a change in the rules from the paradigm that led to us being the power we were in the past. Lets say this new era started with us being caught cheating and dragged kicking and screaming into it. And lets give it a start date of 2000. A new century a new era of football. And for the first part of the era we were in tatters. Here is where we finished for the first part of this new era.
2000 - 2
2001 - 5 (the last remnants of the old era, new era is about to crash into our consciousness).
2002 - dead last
2003 - 15th second last
2004 - 10th false dawn
2005 - 16th and last
2006 - 16th and last
2007 - 15th and second last and a new chapter in the new era starts. Ratts is appointed coach and stability to the Carlton structures is starting to be returned and a path is set on, the path we are still on. We finally understood what it was that Geelong was showing us, and we decided to emulate it, no doubt at the urging of the late great. And 2007 is to us what 2000 was to them. Where they culminated we started. So on that basis, if it take us until 2014 then we are actually bang on timeline. Anything earlier is a bonus.

2008 - 10th
2009 - 7th
2010 - 8th
2011 - 5th

So on what basis can you possible say the club has provided no basis for it to be trusted or have faith in them. And for the record the club ought not have to say trust us, for after all the path they are now on is not of their design, it is the proven way that others have blazed in this new era, not just Geelong, although they have been the best proponent of it, but WC, Collingwood, Hawthorn have all chosen this path. Not surprisingly they are the more successful clubs. Melb, RIchmond, Freo, Bulldogs and had Lyon not quit I have no doubt StKilda have all chosen another path, that of path hopping hoping to luck into success. Whilst there are exceptions to all rules, I know which teams I hope we emulate.

Now I am not going to bother (I have done this about 5 times now and people are just not getting it) posting the finishes in the years from 2000 up to 2007 that Geelong had. Suffice to say that in 2006 they fell back. Did they panic and sack the coach despite the media and whilst I was not around I have no doubt the same quality of poster we now have would have lived on their boards back then calling for the same thing.

And finally, why do I need to engage the vacuous "I want it now" generation. Why do I need to educate them, why cant they do the research that I have done for themselves. I am sick to death of the entitlement in all areas of life the newer gens seem to display (as a generality, again there are exceptions). When I was a teenager I despised the selfishness of the boomers, and I blame them for most of the woes of the world, not least of which being the values they have instilled in current generations. But the new X and Y gens shame them with their selfishness, impatience and ignorance. At least Boomers had the humilty to start at the bottom (remember the old weatherboard first home, upturned tea chest for a first coffee table, an old velour lounge for a first lounge and a black and white 12 inch for the first tv, now its McMansion, leather lounge and 100 inch plasma or gtfo) and work our way up. Not its this I want it now and if you cant promise to me then I want someone else to lie to me next, way we choose our politicians and coaches it seems.

I for one am happy we have decided to once again work for our success and have headed down the path to it and are sticking phat to the structures we have committed to.

Edit: just to complete this picture of the path to success, the only other winners of flags in this new era, where the rules were changed to stop the old monopolization of success with a quasi level playing field in the from of drafts and caps, were ironically, teams given a leg up with special rules to help them because of their relative immaturity of either club or market they were in, Port, Sydney, Brisbane. This will happen again with the 2 new new teams. All the other clubs that had to build their success did so using what I will loosely call the stick phat method. All of them. There are no exceptions.

 

[thylacine60]

A thread to rival this one might be 'how the Carlton forum is stagnating' (old 3 ? mark emoticon)

Yeah, man. Let's all rally round The Coach and build a better, more progressive forum. Right, kids?

 

[Stig O'Hara]

Yeah, man. Let's all rally round The Coach and build a better, more progressive forum. Right, kids?

For someone who actually thinks the lyrics of 'Devil Woman' have got something to say.

 

[The Coach]

Please don't defend this stuff @ The Coach.
How can a team be 'made up predominantly of nancy boys' and still have 'all the talent it needs to beat anyone'? It's contradictory drivel

You can be nancy (or some part nancy) and still have talent. I am choosing to interpret nancy as wish washy (In The Coach's words ) as opposed to the 'effeminate' definition (although you can more easily make a case for this - on some thread here tonight they are putting Kirky in that bracket)

We have heaps of wishy washy/mentally soft types with talent - many due to their immaturity and easy promotion and some only part of the time, here are a few

Ed
Jeffy
Bryce
Hammer
Sugar
JR
T bird
Jarrad
206
Yazza

This list is in alphabetical order and like I said sone are far from full time softies (I repeat this softness is mostly mental of course)

Eddie recently graduated off the list

 

[The Coach]

Yeah, man. Let's all rally round The Coach and build a better, more progressive forum. Right, kids?

Let's hope the old Thy who brought great humour to the board may return. You can have the next pot shot as a freebie as I won't feed your recent mood

 

[The Coach]

The Coach??

Okey dokey, gilly72 & igt22.... something or other welcome you to the pseudo/pseudo club.

You will have to dumb it down for me Numbers

 

[thylacine60]

Too late in the evening to be looking for clarity from Numbers.

 

[Stig O'Hara]

You will have to dumb it down for me Numbers

Well you know, we all try to be a little obscure, but you've gone bang,
from the Numerical, to a fist shaking Barassi.

It's huge step-up, even with the Hyde connection.

Arise, TC

 

[Beer n Skittles]

You can be nancy (or some part nancy) and still have talent. I am choosing to interpret nancy as wish washy (In The Coach's words ) as opposed to the 'effeminate' definition (although you can more easily make a case for this - on some thread here tonight they are putting Kirky in that bracket)

We have heaps of wishy washy/mentally soft types with talent - many due to their immaturity and easy promotion and some only part of the time, here are a few

Ed
Jeffy
Bryce
Hammer
Sugar
JR
T bird
Jarrad
206
Yazza

This list is in alphabetical order and like I said sone are far from full time softies (I repeat this softness is mostly mental of course)

Eddie recently graduated off the list

Don't agree with all the names listed, but pick any team in the comp & you'll find a bunch of newbies, players coming off injury etc that are aren't as tough as they need to be.
I think our list is actually comparatively short, must admit I'm a bit one eyed.
Look at Pearce, can't withstand a vicious 'your mum' joke let alone some physical pressure

 

[The Coach]

Well you know, we all try to be a little obscure, but you've gone bang,
from the Numerical, to a fist shaking Barassi.

Which is nice.

I just got a replacement copy of The Coach and I got to wondering who might have that title (already thinking the new BF may be a good time for a new name) Discovered that some idiot who was red-carded for his one and only post 10 years ago had wasted such a great moniker. Being the cheeky chimp I am I thought I would ask the powers that be if they would help me bring it out of mothballs and I can tell you I was emotionally affected when Fred went that extra yard for me. I hope to have fun with it and YEP you are going to get plenty of The Coach sigs

 

[The Coach]

Don't agree with all the names listed, but pick any team in the comp & you'll find a bunch of newbies, players coming off injury etc that are aren't as tough as they need to be.
I think our list is actually comparatively short, must admit I'm a bit one eyed.
Look at Pearce, can't withstand a vicious 'your mum' joke let alone some physical pressure

First thought after just watching a cracking second half by Geelong is who from them? (I did not see the first half - maybe they all were )
Is Longergan wishy washy or just not that talented? Hawkins is wish washy for part of every game but also a key for part of it too. Sometimes Hunt will let himself down but after that I am struggling to think who else