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CFC Stagnation?

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blue healer

blue healer

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Last year we had a lot of players that took their game up a notch.

Robinson, Yarran, Henderson, Garlett, Scotland, Warnock, Murphy and Walker to name a few. This year other than, maybe, Hampson and Touey (and both only marginal) we have had none. In fact a number appear to have gone backwards.

At the beginning of the year we had very high hopes for Lucas, Russell, Kreuzer (coming off his injury), Mitchell (fair enough reason there), Waite (also coming off an injury) and Watson.

Not saying that we are hopeless but have we overestimated the potential of our list and, if not, why (other than injuries to some of those above) have we seen no players step up this year?

Do we need a real cleanout or are there some hidden superstars that I'm not aware of in the Northern Blues?

For whatever reason this year has been a disappointing year for development and make me wonder if we really are as close to that 17th cup as we thought.

Thoughts please.
 
Thoughts? This is far from thread worthy. Nothing that hasn't been said before in numerous other places.

As far as players who have started to stand up this year? Tuohy, Hampson, Henderson's continued emergence as an All Australian caliber key position player, the past two weeks of Matthew Watson with hype of several players in the Northern Blues including Dylan Buckley.

The reason why there are less players taking their game up a notch is because some players are beginning to hit their ceilings on what they can do. That isn't a knock against them but rather a pure fact. What those guys need to do is to become consistent in their A-grade performances. Unfortunately, consistency comes in the form of playing in the same 22 or close to it regularly so that their role doesn't change drastically from one week to the next - consistency in form comes with consistency of role even when playing a couple of roles within the same game. Unfortunately, we've had the type of injuries this year where it isn't just "we're out five of our top 22" we're losing the likes of Murphy, Kreuzer in and out playing hurt, Carrots, Scotland, etc. so consistency in role has chopped and changed. We've also had several of those players who took the next step last year fall down injured including but not limited to Jeremy Laidler and Chris Yarran.

I do believe the final outcome for this group given the adversity that it has faced will be a stronger group than before.
 
Injuries will ruin the year for most players. It is a rare beast that can show improvement coming off any serious type of injury in the year that it has happened. Next season we may well be wondering why so many players have shown improvement, if they can stay fit from now right through preseason.

Watson and Bootsma have shown a bit and Collins will be better for the senior game time, we already knew he would be okay at this level. The season is not a write off.

Getting some players back will help others. As I mentioned in another thread, it is harder for young players to show their true potential in the top level when there is a lack of structure around them. We have been missing vital players which means everyone is playing an unfamiliar role to cover holes. This breeds a lack of confidence when things do not go to plan.

The worm will turn, we have most of the building blocks in place, just need to wait for the cement to dry to see how strong we really are. That takes time, probably another summer.
 
Are we still using injuries as an excuse to people not being able to adapt to a non existent game plan?
Every team has injuries and every team will get injuries. I'll even go out on a limb here and predict next year we will also get injuries.

Either we get a gameplan that matches our capabilities or we clean up half of the list that isn't performing. Garlett is about 12 games overdue.
 

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This is how I see it.

Improved
Watson, Armfield, Carrazzo, Collins, Ellard, Hampson (slightly), Mclean, Robinson, Touhy, Bootsma

Playing well
Henderson, Simpson, Walker (only just, should be doing better), Jamison, Scotland, Betts, Duigan (after some form finding), Kreuzer (still a long way to go), Laidler (was), Murphy (was)

Stagnant
Curnow, Joseph, Lucas, Thornton, Warnock, Yarran (was playing well)

Gone backwards
Garlett, Gibbs, Judd, Russell, Waite

As a team it's clear we have gone backwards miles. This has a lot to do with a huge lack of strength over our playing group, a lack of big strong quality tall targets up forward and how we are playing our footy (no momentum through stoppages, going around the boundry, not looking to find/create space in the midfield and get it to the forward line quickly, poor positioning in our forward line and poor structure and decision making going in).
 
It is clear when you compare our younger players with upside to that of say Collingwood you can see why we have an issue.

The pies have all of a sudden found 2 absolute elite extra mids in Beams and Siddebottm, whilst at the same time our two most obvious potential A graders in Kruz and Gibbs have stagnated in the case of Kruz and gone backwards in the case of Gibbs.

I think in terms of identifying new potential quality players Boots and Watson are a real positve but the premership maker is players jumping up to A grade status all of a sudden. We don't have any players doing that and as stated by the OP we actually have a number going backwards at a rate of knots.

Players playing worse or having less impact than last year for whatever reasons is not a short list:
- Judd (inj plus skills, plus MC playing him injured), Murphy (inj but wasnt playing as well pre injury), Waite (more inj than normal), Gibbs (massive drop off), Yarran (inj & rushed back), Kruz (think he has dropped off from last year marginally), Warnock (inj and form), Jamo (prior to injury last year he was in AA form he is playing well but not at that level), Simpson (tagged), Garlett (gigantic fall from grace), Walker (playing well but no scoreboard impact).
 
I would argue that Hampson doesn't need to take every mark that comes into the forward line, all he needs to do is make sure it comes to ground so Betts and Garlett can strut their stuff at ground level.

Whenever the ball is heading forward for us he should be no more than 25 metres from goal. Too many times he's leading on or outside the 50. If he takes the mark out there he can't kick it that far so leads to a bomb to Betts competing against a taller player or if he drops it, even if Betts and Garlett can get a crumb, they can't snap it from 50.
 
blue healer said:
I would argue that Hampson doesn't need to take every mark that comes into the forward line, all he needs to do is make sure it comes to ground so Betts and Garlett can strut their stuff at ground level.

Whenever the ball is heading forward for us he should be no more than 25 metres from goal. Too many times he's leading on or outside the 50. If he takes the mark out there he can't kick it that far so leads to a bomb to Betts competing against a taller player or if he drops it, even if Betts and Garlett can get a crumb, they can't snap it from 50.
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Yeah but recently we have seen Betts and Garlett either up the ground and not at the fall of the ball or when they are there they are out numbered and battling the loose man.

Most of times this loose or extra man is Hampson's direct opponent as he has been going to ground or is not agile enough to assist because by the time he finds his balance the 2 on 1 or at times 3 on 2 contests has already been lost!

Ruckmen will never succeed up forward against the oppositions best or 2nd best defender unless they have freakish ability both in the air and on the ground, unfortunately our rucks dont have this freakish ability to compete with great agile defenders.

They would be a far better chance to succeed if they could exploit a 3rd tall defender, for this to happen we need Waite to get on the park + 1 other (Mitchell, Rowe etc) or play Henderson forward again.
 
Just Kreuzing said:
Yeah but recently we have seen Betts and Garlett either up the ground and not at the fall of the ball or when they are there they are out numbered and battling the loose man.

Most of times this loose or extra man is Hampson's direct opponent as he has been going to ground or is not agile enough to assist because by the time he finds his balance the 2 on 1 or at times 3 on 2 contests has already been lost!

Ruckmen will never succeed up forward against the oppositions best or 2nd best defender unless they have freakish ability both in the air and on the ground, unfortunately our rucks dont have this freakish ability to compete with great agile defenders.

They would be a far better chance to succeed if they could exploit a 3rd tall defender, for this to happen we need Waite to get on the park + 1 other (Mitchell, Rowe etc) or play Henderson forward again.
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Does this come down to our tactics, Betts and Garlett chasing kicks or plainly that they have to be up the ground because our mids are being beaten for clearances?

Whatever the reason those two are the quickest small forward combo in the league. It's not rocket science, they are our forward strength and if we can't devise a game plan around them then we are destined for eternal frustration.

I think you can make a forward out of a ruckman (the Hawks managed to do it with a battler like Hale) but if you're not prepared to trial the theory then you're gonna die wondering. If it was tried and given sufficient time to assess and then didn't work then I'll forever hold my peace.

I totally agree that we need a third tall, seem to have been saying it forever, and, in the absence of someone better, it's why I constantly call for the selection of Thornton.
 
Maybe we should get Hawthorn's forward coach.
 
Kades_Dad said:
You have to be kidding. Hampson is constantly pushed off the ball and couldn't catch a cold. Do I really have to present the video footage or him constantly running under balls (because he's scared of the contact) or bouncing balls off his chest on the lead?
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Agreed.
Not enough basic ability there to work with.
It's like getting a 7 foot player to play basketball and he can't even reach the ring. Just quit
 
blue healer said:
Does this come down to our tactics, Betts and Garlett chasing kicks or plainly that they have to be up the ground because our mids are being beaten for clearances?

Whatever the reason those two are the quickest small forward combo in the league. It's not rocket science, they are our forward strength and if we can't devise a game plan around them then we are destined for eternal frustration.

I think you can make a forward out of a ruckman (the Hawks managed to do it with a battler like Hale) but if you're not prepared to trial the theory then you're gonna die wondering. If it was tried and given sufficient time to assess and then didn't work then I'll forever hold my peace.

I totally agree that we need a third tall, seem to have been saying it forever, and, in the absence of someone better, it's why I constantly call for the selection of Thornton.
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Absolutely it comes down to tactics and structure, are we better off going man on man all over the ground or keep manning up the loose man in defense so if we are outnumbered at least we can be 3 against 4 instead of 2 against 1. get more numbers in there to help keep it in but its a catch 22 as our midfield would need to defend better including Judd and it might expose our defense.

The point you make about Hawthorn and Hale is exactly what I am talking about, when they play us he doesn't get manned up by Henderson or Jamison does he!

He will get Watson or a Bower type who are undersized and wont hurt them on the rebound. The priority is to place your best defenders on Buddy, Roughead and probably Gunston at the moment where as Hampson gets the best defender for us at the other end.

That changes when we can put more quality around Hampson and someone like Schoenmakers is taken to the goalsquare without the assistance of a Gibson or Gilham being the 3rd man up.
 
i had thought similar. some players going backwards is going to more than account for any improvement in others... and add injuries to this.
russell used to have a spot sewn up. i fail to see why russell could not be doing whatever gibbs is meant to be doing.
walker is kicking less goals... but seems to be playing in the midfield. we took our leading goalkicker out of the forwardline.
no he's not a tall, but is clearly a marking option.

i'd be waiting for a bounce next year. assuming some of the players can get back to their better form. we lacked forward talls for most of last year too, but it didn't trouble as much then.
 

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dumb said:
i had thought similar. some players going backwards is going to more than account for any improvement in others... and add injuries to this.
russell used to have a spot sewn up. i fail to see why russell could not be doing whatever gibbs is meant to be doing.
walker is kicking less goals... but seems to be playing in the midfield. we took our leading goalkicker out of the forwardline.
no he's not a tall, but is clearly a marking option.

i'd be waiting for a bounce next year. assuming some of the players can get back to their better form. we lacked forward talls for most of last year too, but it didn't trouble as much then.
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Gibbs is used in the role he is for his footskills, Russell couldn't hit the water from a rowboat!!
 
Just Kreuzing said:
Gibbs is used in the role he is for his footskills, Russell couldn't hit the water from a rowboat!!
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i've thought that too, it seems pretty obvious that gibbs skills have some part in his role back (i think russell's disposal isn't that bad though).

in a way, that sums up some of the problems in a nutshell, though. instead of working on an existing players skills, get some other player to do it and we have a net skill increase of zero. if we can work on training thornton and hampson as a forward, why not some players disposal (bower comes to mind, and the way he got hidden in the forward line).
 
Wickzki said:
Thoughts? This is far from thread worthy. Nothing that hasn't been said before in numerous other places.
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Save this for something truly questionable. General rule: Praise all thread starters as this board can become pretty boring w/o people who will go out on a limb :clubs:
 
dumb said:
i've thought that too, it seems pretty obvious that gibbs skills have some part in his role back (i think russell's disposal isn't that bad though).

in a way, that sums up some of the problems in a nutshell, though. instead of working on an existing players skills, get some other player to do it and we have a net skill increase of zero. if we can work on training thornton and hampson as a forward, why not some players disposal (bower comes to mind, and the way he got hidden in the forward line).
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That is one of our problems, players like Russell have been around long enough to improve their individual skills or is it that they need better guidance from better skills coaches???

A thought might be we only recruit players that have an above average skill package from here on....just dont see many poorly skilled players running around for the Pies, Eagles or Cats etc.
 
Just Kreuzing said:
That is one of our problems, players like Russell have been around long enough to improve their individual skills or is it that they need better guidance from better skills coaches???

A thought might be we only recruit players that have an above average skill package from here on....just dont see many poorly skilled players running around for the Pies, Eagles or Cats etc.
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Spot on
 
Had the strangest dream, I was a Tigers supporter (I even had a mullet), only the team wasnt called the Tigers or Richmond, it was called Carlton and or the Blues, our jumper was navy with a white logo on it and fans at games would call out stuff like go the Baggers, or go the mighty blues, stuff like that, but I would come home, go to my favorite footy forum and every thread is this player is shit, this bloke should never pull the jumper on again, have we stagnated, should we sack the coach, get Malthouse or Roos.

It was a nightmare.

Then I woke up.

Oh wait.......
 

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pepalenko said:
Maybe we should get Hawthorn's forward coach.
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Maybe we should just get Hawthorn's forwards. :)

This years plan has fallen by the wayside for what reasoning seems obvious to most.
I'm not quite ready to do an autopsy on a living body. May just give it a few weeks at least.
 
HARKER said:
Maybe we should just get Hawthorn's forwards. :)

This years plan has fallen by the wayside for what reasoning seems obvious to most.
I'm not quite ready to do an autopsy on a living body. May just give it a few weeks at least.
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Seems a cruel and unusual form of torture, Harks.
 
Can't believe the woeful injury ridden rebuilding bulldogs could have as many wins as us if they win this week.
 
Our lack of depth has served to underline and exaggerate the cost of so many injuries...sure supporters ahev a right to be dispaointed with teh way teh year has panned out so far- but as players get back our performance will do a huge positive J-curve, of that I am sure.

There is nothing to be done - except to look forward to our better players coming back - Carrazzo and Laidler will be back for Hawthorn and Waite has started running again. Murph will be back in 4 weeks ie 3 games.

basically - our best 22 have not been on the paddock since the 1st quarter of the game against Essendon.

end of year will see some serious attention being paid to the depth issue.
 
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