Analysis Champion Data Elite.

[WillHayward]

What's the criteria for this? I'm guessing that it's based on the ability of the player to accumulate certain stats, which is going to bias the kinds of players who qualify. All the key defenders on that list are intercept players, for example, who are going to be generating bigger numbers than more accountable, one-on-one defenders, even though neither role is necessarily more valuable. Similar with a lot of the general defenders mostly being rebounding / quarterback types who accumulate a lot of possessions because the ball tends to run through them more than other defenders. Gawn missing is a strange one, but his numbers in 2021 were down on previous years because he was splitting the ruck duties more with Luke Jackson.

If this is a list of "who has the best stats" then it's pretty hard to argue with, but if it's meant to be a list of the best, most impactful and most valuable players in the league then it's obviously pretty silly.

Steele had 8.4 tackles, 6 clearances, 5 inside 50s and 29 disposals per game and still doesn't make the list. He also didn't miss a single game.

The list is just bizarre!

 

[Thrawn]

No McKay? He won the Coleman despite missing 3 games and most of the 4th.

 

[Blackhawk42]

Despite how absurd this list is, anything that validates the talent I saw in Dylan Moore

13

Dylan Moore

Age

24

Ht

177cm

Wt

77kg

Pos.

Fwd

Career

Season

Last 5

D

11.9

3star

K

5.1

2star

HB

6.7

4star

M

4.4

4star

T

2.9

4star

G

0.3

3star

No current season stats available

D

12.2

3star

K

6.0

3star

HB

6.2

4star

M

5.4

5star

T

2.8

5star

G

0.4

3star

when he was almost delisted 12 months ago is fine by me.

 

[Smithdogmaddog]

The issue I have with champion data is their staff are super arrogant and refuse to admit a lot of their stuff is super subjective. Because it's stat based they truly believe it's entirely objective and impossible to argue with.

But the way they classify things like having a specific category for wingman when so few actually play a predominantly wing role and also splitting hairs on a general forward but no category for medium forwards so these guys get missed . These couple of purely subjective classifications lead to most of the unusual players listed as elite over the past few years.

They also weight particular stats such as hit outs to advantage and score involvements way too high which is why Nic Nat always gets rated way too high.

Also the defenders are mainly metres gained type guys that don't defend .

 

[g_TRAIN]

haha wtf

 

[Demonic Ascent]

Damn straight. Hickey over Gawn every day of the week

Hickey was great last year, I don't mind him ranked as elite. Even Darcy and NicNat I can understand. But Grundy?

 

[Thrawn]

The issue I have with champion data is their staff are super arrogant and refuse to admit a lot of their stuff is super subjective. Because it's stat based they truly believe it's entirely objective and impossible to argue with.

So you're saying Dan26 is Champion Data?

 

[TwiggleyFanClub]

No Walsh = fail list LOL

 

[Underarm]

Is this better or worse than Robbo's top 50?

This abuses statistics. It's far worse.

 

[HairyO]

The issue I have with champion data is their staff are super arrogant and refuse to admit a lot of their stuff is super subjective. Because it's stat based they truly believe it's entirely objective and impossible to argue with.

But the way they classify things like having a specific category for wingman when so few actually play a predominantly wing role and also splitting hairs on a general forward but no category for medium forwards so these guys get missed . These couple of purely subjective classifications lead to most of the unusual players listed as elite over the past few years.

They also weight particular stats such as hit outs to advantage and score involvements way too high which is why Nic Nat always gets rated way too high.

Also the defenders are mainly metres gained type guys that don't defend .

They provide raw data to the clubs. I would love to see a comparison of what CD do with the data to make their lists and what the clubs do with the data to make theirs.

I am pretty sure the 2 look nothing at all like eachother.

 

[00Stinger]

Brody Grundy elite?

The only thing that is elite is his over inflated, undeserved salary

 

[Breretonisahood]

The funniest one is Sam Switkowski. I understand there’s some sort of statistical measures at play here but the guy isn’t even a best 22 player at a bottom 8 club.

Surely before they release these lists, someone can have a quick scan to get rid of these hilarious calls so they look to have some sort of credibility.

Do the geeks crunching the numbers know anything at all about footy? Maybe, for all they know, they are crunching the numbers to see who is Australia’s most eligible bachelor.

 

[00Stinger]

Imagine how good we would be if we had Collingwood and Hawthorns elite talent?

 

[Trav 20]

It's entirely plausible that 12 game player in 2021 Switkowski is selected as a general forward ahead of 59 goal forward Bayley Fritsch

31

Bayley Fritsch

Age

27

Ht

188cm

Wt

86kg

Pos.

Fwd

Career

Season

Last 5

D

15.6

4star

K

10.4

4star

HB

5.2

4star

M

5.5

5star

T

2.0

4star

G

0.9

4star

D

9.5

2star

K

7.7

3star

HB

1.8

1star

M

5.0

5star

T

1.0

2star

G

1.3

5star

D

11.8

3star

K

7.8

3star

HB

4.0

3star

M

4.4

4star

T

2.4

4star

G

1.4

5star

.

 

[Do the Dew]

The issue I have with champion data is their staff are super arrogant and refuse to admit a lot of their stuff is super subjective. Because it's stat based they truly believe it's entirely objective and impossible to argue with.

But the way they classify things like having a specific category for wingman when so few actually play a predominantly wing role and also splitting hairs on a general forward but no category for medium forwards so these guys get missed . These couple of purely subjective classifications lead to most of the unusual players listed as elite over the past few years.

They also weight particular stats such as hit outs to advantage and score involvements way too high which is why Nic Nat always gets rated way too high.

Also the defenders are mainly metres gained type guys that don't defend .

Stats are objective. How CD rates and uses them is subjective. Therein lies the issue. They clearly believe that certain stats carry more weight than others, which can lead to some horrendous takes such as this "elite" list (Finlayson, Switkowski...wtf!!??)

 

[BarbieITFC]

The funniest one is Sam Switkowski. I understand there’s some sort of statistical measures at play here but the guy isn’t even a best 22 player at a bottom 8 club.

Surely before they release these lists, someone can have a quick scan to get rid of these hilarious calls so they look to have some sort of credibility.

I’m not for a minute going to try and defend Switkowski’s inclusion (and I’m a huge fan of his), but to say he’s not Best 22 is just ignorant. He came 10th in our B&F from only 12 games and on a points per game basis would have come 4th. He is comfortably Best 22. He also got Brownlow votes in 2-3 games (rather than just a fluke one off game).

I’m assuming the CD rankings count pressure acts and score involvements highly when they rate general forwards - because that’s where his strengths lie.

I think he’s a great little player and if he can get his body right will be pushing for Top 5/6 players on Freo’s list - but in the top eight general forwards in the game…nope, not right now.

 

[juss]

Champion Data has released their Elite players list.
Do you agree? Who would you add/remove? Who's the best in their respective position?

General Defenders

Tom Stewart (Geelong)

Caleb Daniel (Western Bulldogs)

Bailey Dale (Western Bulldogs)

Daniel Rich (Brisbane)

Jordan Dawson (Adelaide)

Adam Saad (Carlton)

Zac Williams (Carlton)

Jack Crisp (Collingwood)

Jack Sinclair (St Kilda)

Nick Hind (Essendon)

Jack Scrimshaw (Hawthorn)

Aaron Hall (North Melbourne)

Key Defenders

Jacob Weitering (Carlton)

Jake Lever (Melbourne)

Harris Andrews (Brisbane)

Darcy Moore (Collingwood)

Aliir Aliir (Port Adelaide)

General Forwards

Toby Greene (GWS Giants)

Isaac Heeney (Sydney)

Liam Ryan (West Coast)

Robbie Gray (Port Adelaide)

Zak Butters (Port Adelaide)

Lincoln McCarthy (Brisbane)

Luke Breust (Hawthorn)

Jamie Elliott (Collingwood)

Sam Switkowski (Fremantle)

Dylan Moore (Hawthorn)

Key Forwards

Tom Hawkins (Geelong)

Lance Franklin (Sydney)

Charlie Dixon (Port Adelaide)

Taylor Walker (Adelaide)

Jeremy Finlayson (Port Adelaide)

Mid-Forwards

Dustin Martin (Richmond)

Jake Stringer (Essendon)

Adam Treloar (Western Bulldogs)

Chad Wingard (Hawthorn)

Midfielders

Clayton Oliver (Melbourne)

Christian Petracca (Melbourne)

Dayne Zorko (Brisbane)

Darcy Parish (Essendon)

Touk Miller (Gold Coast)

Marcus Bontempelli (Western Bulldogs)

Tom Liberatore (Western Bulldogs)

Jack Macrae (Western Bulldogs)

Wingmen

Paul Seedsman (Adelaide)

Hugh McCluggage (Brisbane)

Sam Menegola (Geelong)

Karl Amon (Port Adelaide)

Bailey Smith (Western Bulldogs)

Rucks

Brodie Grundy (Collingwood)

Sean Darcy (Fremantle)

Tom Hickey (Sydney)

Nic Naitanui (West Coast)

Over 50 elite players, I guess it depends what your definition of elite is.
Ball park this is about 7% of the league, broken up into positions. I know some people measure only say the top 10-15 players as elite, which would be about the top 2%.

My issue with these, is it's purely statistical.

Like I couldn't care less what the stats say, there's a lot of guys on that list who are not elite players. There's also a lot of better players running around that might not make it on the stats algorithm, but are clearly better players.

For example, apparantly Max Gawn is not an elite ruck, but Hickey and Darcy are?
Countless examples across the positions.

 

[BarbieITFC]

Over 50 elite players, I guess it depends what your definition of elite is.
Ball park this is about 7% of the league, broken up into positions. I know some people measure only say the top 10-15 players as elite, which would be about the top 2%.

My issue with these, is it's purely statistical.

Like I couldn't care less what the stats say, there's a lot of guys on that list who are not elite players. There's also a lot of better players running around that might not make it on the stats algorithm, but are clearly better players.

For example, apparantly Max Gawn is not an elite ruck, but Hickey and Darcy are?
Countless examples across the positions.

It’s the Tom Mitchell argument - statistically will probably be rated one of the best midfielders to have ever played the game - but right now how many teams would trade for him??

 

[HairyO]

It’s the Tom Mitchell argument - statistically will probably be rated one of the best midfielders to have ever played the game - but right now how many teams would trade for him??

At least a few. Particularly those with younger midfielders who are still developing.

 

[WillHayward]

Imagine how good we would be if we had Collingwood and Hawthorns elite talent?

Goodwin must be the greatest coach of all time to coach a bunch of hacks to a flag.

 

[WillHayward]

I don't even think it's this.

Finlayson?

Port must be favourites for the flag after recruiting all time AFL hall of famer J Finlayson.

 

[BarbieITFC]

At least a few. Particularly those with younger midfielders who are still developing.

Exactly - with his stats though you would assume every team in the league would be interested.

He’s a damn good player - but not to the extent that his stats would suggest.

 

[00Stinger]

Goodwin must be the greatest coach of all time to coach a bunch of hacks to a flag.

while also batting a gambling addiction, a drug addiction, having anger management issues and being an alcoholic according to the media

 

[Demonic Ascent]

Brody Grundy elite?

The only thing that is elite is his over inflated, undeserved salary

An average footballer being able to wrangle $7m out of the Pies is elite in anyone's language

 

[HairyO]

Goodwin must be the greatest coach of all time to coach a bunch of hacks to a flag.

Check out the 2008 All Australian list. Geelong won the Grand Final by about 15 goals. They were just that good !!