Unofficial Preview Changes and Discussion - Dogs round 16

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LIONS08

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Mar 17, 2008
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Keays was monstering the NEAFL when he was played in the midfield. However, most of the time he was played as a small forward. Not a noted high disposal position.
27 a game in the Neafl back the was on par with Ryan Bastinac and Corey Lyons. Both out of the system now. I wouldn’t call 27 a game ‘monstering the Neafl’
What beast is doing now is monstering the vfl….
His stat sheet also regressed in 2019. He is a solid player now I’ll admit that. But at the time it was the correct call… sometimes it’s unlucky when you fall out of contract.
 

Mikevk123

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Jun 25, 2019
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Essendon
B Starcevich Andrews Rich
HB K.Coleman Adams Answerth
C J.Berry Rayner Mcluaggage
HF Bailey McStay McCarthy
F Cameron Daniher Fullatron
FOLL: Omac Robertson Neale
I/C: Payne, Mathieson, E.Smith, Ah’Chee
 

AFLQLD

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If we want to beat the Bulldogs a lot is going to need to change at centre clearances. Like it or not, winning restarts is the key to games, especially against faster, more skilful teams. And nearly every team is faster than us.

A clean centre clearance is the key factor. An uncontested possession in the hands of a player running or kicking into their forward 50 out of the centre would be the absolute top of the wish list for AFL teams. Every one is a potentially significant moment in the game.

Lose a centre clearance: the defence is under pressure one on one. There are three likely outcomes - an inside 50 for the opposition that results in a mark and shot at goal, an inside 50 stoppage that they can use to keep forward pressure on, a rebound against an opposition defence that has pressed up already to stop easy exit. Lose a centre clearance and EVERYTHING is much harder.

The exact opposite occurs if we win a clean centre clearance.

Winning clean centre clearances with the 6-6-6 and current coaching patterns is the gold standard way to win games. Four or five clean centre clearances will decide many games. Everything else will be just scrapping things out until someone makes a mistake and a turnover occurs that can be exploited.

As things stand, Bulldogs are a long way ahead as a centre clearance team regardless of any stats. Clean centre clearances are the biggest key stat in the game now and we don’t get enough.

I hope we learned something from the Melbourne debacle.
 

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On the quiet

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Jul 15, 2021
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Tom Berry confirmed my opinion of him against the Dees. He has never played a game in the seniors where he has shown anything apart from the occasional tackle. He rarely gets the ball.
Agree that he didn't get much of it, but i reckon it is difficult for guys like Tom, Dev, Payne, Prior, etc as they come in for the odd game or a couple of games, and probably just told to do a role, sometimes in a position that they are not playing in the reserves. Arguably most would be worried about performing and fitting into the structure, and this may at times lead to some of them playing below their capabilities. I think it is realistic that two to three of them will be permanent 22 in 2023... if they stay.
 

mpal6

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Lohmann played well in the reserves ? We need some forward half pressure.

I think the problem needs to be fixed in the middle.

Whatever we've done doesn't seem to work against the top sides - Bulldogs will again be elite in the middle. I'll go as far as making this a problem for players to solve and bench Neale for long stretches.

Ok, our best clearance player is out now, let's see what the heck you can do as a group. Play to your instincts and show what you can do, Dev, Terry, Rayner, McCluggage. Let's handover the keys to the non-Neale midfield and time to see who stands up. Lyons may not be playing anyway, Fagan needs to show he trusts this group even if it means we will end up minus 5 goals by quarter time.
 

Sanchez365

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As AFLQLD said, center clearances are vital to the game. We were will in the contest in the first quarter when Neale was winning the ball and setting up clear forays forward.

Our forward line is also so stacked that in a one on one situation, they are all so dangerous we often convert those opportunities into scores. However, their ability to neutralize contests, especially in the air with the three talls and two strong overhead smalls, has been deplorable in the past few weeks.

We used to be able to control field position, and move from contest to contest, but our forwards aren't locking the ball up or halving contests at all. When you have 3 talls and Lever is still taking intercept marks there is a massive problem structurally infront of the ball.
 

RoyBoy17

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Aug 31, 2021
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Hope we’ve learnt our lessons from the last couple of times we’ve played the dogs. Sadly I’m still expecting us to give free reign to Macrae, Bont. and Caleb Daniel again. The players are rightly being slammed for their pathetic efforts on Thursday but it’s also time for some heat to go on the coaching group. No imagination or ability to come up with some tactics to quell the oppositions best players. We just let them play. Not a good recipe for success.
 

Dalions

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One thing in our favour in this game is that the doggies don’t tend to tag so Neale is much more likely to have a clear run at it.
So the midfield will be a head to head set up which we tend to cope with much more successfully.
 

M Malice

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I think the problem needs to be fixed in the middle.

Whatever we've done doesn't seem to work against the top sides - Bulldogs will again be elite in the middle. I'll go as far as making this a problem for players to solve and bench Neale for long stretches.

Ok, our best clearance player is out now, let's see what the heck you can do as a group. Play to your instincts and show what you can do, Dev, Terry, Rayner, McCluggage. Let's handover the keys to the non-Neale midfield and time to see who stands up. Lyons may not be playing anyway, Fagan needs to show he trusts this group even if it means we will end up minus 5 goals by quarter time.
Can anyone recall, during that stretch of games when Lachie was out last year and we won all the games IIRC who were the inside mid group?

Obviously Lyons but was it Matho exclusively as the other... who else had more time in there?
 

Squizz89

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We will beat the dogs by 40+ or lose by 30. The loss v Melbourne will either make or break us. Time will tell.
Yeah agree with that. Reckon we might have a fair idea how the rest of the season plays out from here just on how we go next week alone.
 

Tom14

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Can anyone recall, during that stretch of games when Lachie was out last year and we won all the games IIRC who were the inside mid group?

Obviously Lyons but was it Matho exclusively as the other... who else had more time in there?

Matho really didn’t do much. Clug played inside and was leading the coaches votes at mid-season, zorks was unbelievable in several games.

We miss his manic pressure around the ball and I’m not sure it’s coming back.
 

Gadzorks

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Matho really didn’t do much. Clug played inside and was leading the coaches votes at mid-season, zorks was unbelievable in several games.

We miss his manic pressure around the ball and I’m not sure it’s coming back.

In an interview earlier this year zorks said if his injury stops him playing, so be it.

He seems at peace with retirement, so maybe he carries more injuries than we realise, hence the acceptance of what may happen.
 

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Gadzorks

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Matho really didn’t do much. Clug played inside and was leading the coaches votes at mid-season, zorks was unbelievable in several games.

We miss his manic pressure around the ball and I’m not sure it’s coming back.

Didn't do much, but was there. Maybe doing his role well enough to let others get on with what they do??
 

md20

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Lynchy said in the commentary of the first qtr when we were on top that the improvement with us now compared to other seasons is that we can switch from fast play to slow/chip the ball around. And I dont know but I was kinda like "the * are you talking about".
1. We havent improved compared to other seasons. I actually believe we have been worse.
2. The slowing play down/chipping it around is basically the reason why we havent improved.

We hardly ever take the game on anymore. And this slow play just ends up with us bombing it down the line to an aerial contest that we lose because the opponents defence has set up.
We've always kind of just hacked the ball forward but that was on the end of taking the game on through the middle which caught the opponent defence out/not letting them set up. Which then allowed CC to destroy opponents with his pace on a lead or running back towards goal. Z. Bailey the same. McCarthy and Rayner also benefitted from this.
Now its just spot kicks up to half back or the wing and then bomb it to half forward or inside 50, lose the aerial contest, and then lose the contest at the feet because contested ball is also something we struggle with.

I would like to see a different centre bounce group. Possibly J. Berry, Neale and Starc.
 

Big Sauce 21

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Can anyone recall, during that stretch of games when Lachie was out last year and we won all the games IIRC who were the inside mid group?

Obviously Lyons but was it Matho exclusively as the other... who else had more time in there?

Looking at the stats Lyons performed really well. Looks like Mitch Robbo spent time in the guts as well. Rhy's stats weren't that flash.
 

lionshine

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In - Zorko Bailey Ah Chee Madden Lohmann
Out - Lyons T.Berry Robinson Answerth Tunstill

B Rich Andrews Payne
HB Starcevich Adams Coleman
C Berry Rayner McCluggage
HF Bailey Hipwood McCarthy
F McStay Daniher Cameron
R McInerney Neale Zorko
I Robertson Ah Chee Madden Lohmann

Madden and Lohmann to add a bit more pace/pressure/x-factor
 

Dalions

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Can anyone recall, during that stretch of games when Lachie was out last year and we won all the games IIRC who were the inside mid group?

Obviously Lyons but was it Matho exclusively as the other... who else had more time in there?
Lyons was close to one of the best mids in the game during the period that Neale was out last year.
I think it wore him out though, because he hasn’t been the same since Neale can back last year.
And that has flowed into this year as well.
 

PaddleFoot

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Jul 21, 2008
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Hipwood looks uninterested. Not sure if he is worried about his knee or has lost passion for the game.
He gets pushed off the ball way too easily. Defenders' dream. Square peg at the moment and lacks any physical presence. Should look to A Naughton as an impact player.
 

mebevan

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Apr 24, 2006
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We’ve built a solid team and a great percentage style play. Give fages and this group a European football type season like best record after 32 games wins and we would be consistently challenging.

Unfortunately we have stacked a lot of salary cap into our forwards and backs whereas other teams have put massive percentage of their cap in the mids.

If we are down on form and effort we get rolled in the middle. Teams who love the run chaos ball and play on can just slice us.

We are better than that game against dees but we need the coaches to work on some bold alternatives. Like literally let’s go out play our percentage game but then let’s coach a plan b. Like a pagans paddock where you just sit Charlie in the forward half alone. Everyone else in mid or behind the ball and just unleash chaos for 5-10 mins. Play on at all cost and try to get it over the top.

We need something like this some other plan. We are too predictable.
 

Milux

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Cant see how matho can miss out. Even before JL injury he has lacked form majorly.
 

Lazza16

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Cant see how matho can miss out. Even before JL injury he has lacked form majorly.
Will the selectors take into consideration the short turn around for the VFL players especially the Beast 43 touches of playing Sat to Thurs? Could be a factor for a couple of players who got whipped by the Dees saving their place in the team coz of a 7 day turn around iso 5.
 

Dalions

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Will the selectors take into consideration the short turn around for the VFL players especially the Beast 43 touches of playing Sat to Thurs? Could be a factor for a couple of players who got whipped by the Dees saving their place in the team coz of a 7 day turn around iso 5.
Was wondering this myself and if anyone was pulled out of the game at 3/4 time or anything.
 

briztoon

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27 a game in the Neafl back the was on par with Ryan Bastinac and Corey Lyons. Both out of the system now. I wouldn’t call 27 a game ‘monstering the Neafl’
What beast is doing now is monstering the vfl….
His stat sheet also regressed in 2019. He is a solid player now I’ll admit that. But at the time it was the correct call… sometimes it’s unlucky when you fall out of contract.
I was disputing that Keays wasn’t racking up numbers in the NEAFL.

He averaged 20/21 disposals a game playing small forward. Not on a flank, but playing forward pocket.

Keays rarely got to play a full game on ball.

And yes I agree, being delisted was the right decision.

What he’s doing now is little different to what he’s done since U17’s. He’s still a poor kick.
 
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