Unofficial Preview Changes and Early Discussion Vs Saints

[Dalions]

I'm happy to be in the group with Fages and our coaches

Just a shame Henry Smith hasn't had a good run to put real pressure on Days spot

That is the problem right there.
We really aren’t flushed with options for a Forward/Ruck role.

 

[blueiris]

That is the problem right there.
We really aren’t flushed with options for a Forward/Ruck role.

But point being Day isn’t great at either position Fort can do both try Gallop he looks good there’s 2 Gallop being our future needs to get games

 

[p4p1]

I'm not against dropping Day for Fort but Day is improving with each game and I don't know that Fort offers anything up forward that Day doesn't.

 

[blueiris]

I'm not against dropping Day for Fort but Day is improving with each game and I don't know that Fort offers anything up forward that Day doesn't.

He offers goals and an actual Ruckman

 

[blueiris]

Nathan thinks Day is a champion every post I post he has the Laughing Emoji tell me Nathan what is Day actually offering to our structure

 

[Nathan Barley]

Nathan thinks Day is a campion every post I post he has the Laughing Emoji

You in the amusing stage of your campaign posting. Might cross over to the annoying stage like 3KZ some time ago soon though

 

[p4p1]

He offers goals and an actual Ruckman

He doesn't really offer goals. His averages suggest that to not be the case.
Yes he is an actual ruckman, but we need a forward who can ruck, not a ruck who can kind of play forward.
I'm not bothered either way. Based on form and their different strengths as players, I don't see one as being an upgrade over the other at the moment. But Day did just have his best game for us in a game where we got spanked so it might be worth sticking with for another game at least.

 

[Nathan Barley]

He doesn't really offer goals. His averages suggest that to not be the case.
Yes he is an actual ruckman, but we need a forward who can ruck, not a ruck who can kind of play forward.
I'm not bothered either way. Based on form and their different strengths as players, I don't see one as being an upgrade over the other at the moment. But Day did just have his best game for us in a game where we got spanked so it might be worth sticking with for another game at least.

He's also a below standard ruckman. Fort really is at his level as a ready to go backup that beats up on kids in the VFL

 

[blueiris]

What happened to Ryan he was supposed to be the next big thing

 

[Elixuh]

But point being Day isn’t great at either position Fort can do both try Gallop he looks good there’s 2 Gallop being our future needs to get games

You want 18yr old Gallop to ruck lol

 

[Tom14]

King Gunners was much more fun to argue about.

 

[p4p1]

He's also a below standard ruckman. Fort really is at his level as a ready to go backup that beats up on kids in the VFL

He did a pretty good job beating up Grundy last year. I like Forty. I don't know that he is a below standard ruckman, I think that is a bit unfair.
I just don't think in the modern game, 2 rucks work. If they did, Grundy and Gawn would have been a game changer, Darcy and Jackson would have everyone shitting themselves.
If he does prove himself to be a better option as a forward over Day then so be it and we should play him. You need to consider the 80% of the time where the player will be spending their game, not where they spend 20%. As I said, I am not married to either of them. But I get the feeling that Day's forward craft, though not resulting in goals for himself are the reason why he is being picked for Fort.

 

[blueiris]

King Gunners was much more fun to argue about.

Agree I Miss Gunston he’s also playing great football

 

[Nathan Barley]

He did a pretty good job beating up Grundy last year. I like Forty. I don't know that he is a below standard ruckman, I think that is a bit unfair.
I just don't think in the modern game, 2 rucks work. If they did, Grundy and Gawn would have been a game changer, Darcy and Jackson would have everyone shitting themselves.
If he does prove himself to be a better option as a forward over Day then so be it and we should play him. You need to consider the 80% of the time where the player will be spending their game, not where they spend 20%. As I said, I am not married to either of them. But I get the feeling that Day's forward craft, though not resulting in goals for himself are the reason why he is being picked for Fort.

He did but his overall form including round 1 has been that he struggles

 

[p4p1]

We don't know what the coaches plan is for the rest of the season regarding Day.
If Day's form doesn't improve, maybe the idea is to have Hippy pinch hit in the ruck once he is fully match hardened and over his injuries. That would allow us to bring in Gallop who would have another 10 games or so in the VFL by then.

 

[blueiris]

You want 18yr old Gallop to ruck lol

Did I say that I’d like to see Gallop get some time forward I don’t think we need a 2nd ruckman especially against Saints

 

[braddsey]

You in the amusing stage of your campaign posting. Might cross over to the annoying stage like 3KZ some time ago soon though

I hit "Ignore" on blueiris long ago. You can then decide if you want to see what is being responded to by other posters, but generally not worth it.

 

[Elixuh]

Did I say that I’d like to see Gallop get some time forward I don’t think we need a 2nd ruckman especially against Saints

So O plays 100% game time?

 

[knaf]

I’ve been neutral on the Day/Fort question but I’ve recently come down on the Fort side. Primarily because Oscar has been struggling to gain form and fitness due to his intrupeted preseason (I assume). I accept the generally held view that in form Oscar plays better and prefers to be the main ruckman. But at the moment Oscar is getting beaten in the ruck and Day offers very little in the ruck, in my view. Oscar looked stuffed on Thursday even though I thought he was one player who at least tried to have an impact by running forward to create goals.

I think centre clearance issues may be a bigger issue than whether or not Day provides better cohesion in the forward line than Fort, due to Day’s assumed better forward craft.

If we are experimenting with structure post Joe, I think it’s reasonable to try an Oscar/Fort combinations sharing the ruck for a couple of weeks. Particularly as Fort is clearly in good form in the vfl. Once Oscar is back in form maybe the strength of other combinations will be clearer.

 

[Section 5]

Since we became relevant in 2019 the Lions have won 8 out of the last 9 encounters.
The loss was at Carrara in 2021.
We certainly don't want to break that good run of wins this Saturday.

Round 14 last year we won by 20 (Gabba) and won again in round 21 by 85 (Marvel)

 

[notliondown]

I can't help but think the Collingwood game highlighted a couple of things for me that really have been our achilles heel for years now and I'm sure Ross will be all over them...

We rely very heavily on a few players to bring real accountability to the team... by that I mean when we encounter a high pressure running team like the Pies we are caught very short on players who offer the same in return.

Games like last Thursday highlight the "shortcomings" of players who are skilled at offense only, or who rack up possessions or have "bursts" - and we have a few. When we are faced with a team that requires a dedicated, grind it out style, our work horses just can't cover for those who can't or won't contribute. Go past Dunks, Bez, Noz and Fletcher and I struggle to think of players who really hold their opponents to account - on a regular basis at least.

I understand our game plan and style is not to be dour or lock down. But the Pies did to us what we did to them in Easter 23 - denied them time and space. Ross will try and do the same. He will shut down the 45's and stifle ball movement.

Perhaps we just have to outlast the Saints. If we keep pounding the dam wall might break. But there are a few in the team who just have to apply pressure without the ball in hand. I'm not saying we need 23 Josh Dunkleys but we do need pressure and chase when it's your turn.

Our advantage over most teams is the ability to pile on a score quickly. But our leaky defense will cost us more and more if we can't keep ball in hand or at least make it hard for the opposition to do so.

 

[pod17]

I can't help but think the Collingwood game highlighted a couple of things for me that really have been our achilles heel for years now and I'm sure Ross will be all over them...

We rely very heavily on a few players to bring real accountability to the team... by that I mean when we encounter a high pressure running team like the Pies we are caught very short on players who offer the same in return.

Games like last Thursday highlight the "shortcomings" of players who are skilled at offense only, or who rack up possessions or have "bursts" - and we have a few. When we are faced with a team that requires a dedicated, grind it out style, our work horses just can't cover for those who can't or won't contribute. Go past Dunks, Bez, Noz and Fletcher and I struggle to think of players who really hold their opponents to account - on a regular basis at least.

I understand our game plan and style is not to be dour or lock down. But the Pies did to us what we did to them in Easter 23 - denied them time and space. Ross will try and do the same. He will shut down the 45's and stifle ball movement.

Perhaps we just have to outlast the Saints. If we keep pounding the dam wall might break. But there are a few in the team who just have to apply pressure without the ball in hand. I'm not saying we need 23 Josh Dunkleys but we do need pressure and chase when it's your turn.

Our advantage over most teams is the ability to pile on a score quickly. But our leaky defense will cost us more and more if we can't keep ball in hand or at least make it hard for the opposition to do so.

Good analysis. The only thing I will say in defence of our backs, is that the issue you highlighted of lack of accountability (further up the field) has made them look worse.

When we get beaten at the stoppages, and there is little pressure placed on the ball carrier (and it is coming in quickly), it is easy for them to look disorganised when in reality it is near impossible to stop some of those entries. That said, I don't think they are totally blameless. Starcevich has left a hole we are yet to cover, and Harris could do with someone else in the side with the ability to take some intercept marks when he is being tagged (hoping Doedee could be that, or Leek Aleer if the rumours are true).

We've played well against the Saints at Marvel the last two times, would love for that to continue. We just need to sustain their early pressure as I assume they will come out breathing fire after being smashed everywhere last week.

 

[martinson]

Sure we were a bit cooked when we went out there last Thursday but when you've won 5 in a row coming off a flag and you're hearing in the media that you're never out of a game and can win from anywhere it becomes a lot easier to not do the team related hard things.

This isn't a criticism of our mindset or coaching it's just something that can't be avoided when you're in the situation we 've found ourselves in. Sometimes you've got to stink a couple of games up to get yourself fully focused again.

We'll be a lot better this week with the freshen up and I just can't see them going with us at all.

Fwiiw the Fort /Day thing is a mickey mouse issue to date because it hasn't affected results. Fort is a much better ruckman and in all likelihood at least as good a forward on anything I've seen but we've decided to go with Day so let's hope he keeps improving and does whatever the job is we've given him. I do think we miss Starcevich a lot in games like the Collingwood game so wishing him all the best in his recovery. Ah Chee has battled through and had a big influence in some of our wins but he's clearly been struggling with his leg injury so interested to see if he gets up for this match.

Lohman back will help. Hard to see Andrews and Payne not marking everything in sight against this St.Kilda team but Ross will be onto it and they'll try to run it in with handball and low kick chains.

 

[rcbrions]

Off topic but we didn’t have a special guernsey for gather round so surely we’ll be having an ANZAC Jumper?? We are 1 of 4 teams without one yet.

 

[blueiris]

Off topic but we didn’t have a special guernsey for gather round so surely we’ll be having an ANZAC Jumper?? We are 1 of 4 teams without one yet.

Last year we had one because we actually played on ANZAC DAY not sure we need a new one