Unofficial Preview Changes & discussion Round 7 v Dockers.

[Grasshopper17]

He applied more pressure than Hipwood - double him in fact.

Is there any numbers for this? The eye test says this is extremely questionable.

 

[M Malice]

Yes I agree with most of this. I am perhaps a little more optimistic about Joyce. I like his mobility for a tall defender. Obviously still learning the game.

Fullerton has impressed me in the VFL playing forward ruck, but I am in full agreement that we need to trial him at full back to provide an alternative to our current group of AFL tall defenders in case of injuries. I do not like Gunston as a defender, obviously lost some pace, which I guess he can cover through game sense in the forward line because he is always likely to kick a few goals.

i know you watch the VFL. Do you think Lester has lost a yard? I have been a Lester admirer for years because he always gIves a 100% and gets the best out of himself. However I worry that as the game speeds up and he slows down he will get exposed at AFL level. Still a very solid VFL player and great leader at that level.

I have watched a fair bit of the VFL this season and my view is that senior footy has passed Froggy Lester by, he is a smart player but he makes regular clangers and is slowing even more. IMO he should only be called on if we have an injury crisis down back.

If only Harrison Arnold was on the list, it's got me baffled why he is not on an AFL list, looks very good every time I've seen him, must be something I am missing, time is running out for him he is now 24 years old.

 

[On the quiet]

Didn’t play. He may be gone

hopefully only for a few weeks, because we just signed him (late last season) to at least a 3 year deal, and as serviceable as Joyce has been, think Gardiner is currently arguably our third best tall. I think Joyce gets at least a one year extension so should be around in 2024.

 

[On the quiet]

I have watched a fair bit of the VFL this season and my view is that senior footy has passed Froggy Lester by, he is a smart player but he makes regular clangers and is slowing even more. IMO he should only be called on if we have an injury crisis down back.

If only Harrison Arnold was on the list, it's got me baffled why he is not on an AFL list, looks very good every time I've seen him, must be something I am missing, time is running out for him he is now 24 years old.

3KZ might not be too happy to read that about Lester, but I do agree .

 

[Nunez]

Is there any numbers for this? The eye test says this is extremely questionable.

Yep, all on the AFL app.

Edit: he also had double the score involvements than Hipwood.

I also think Hipwood played well. All our KPF did.

 

[buttermuffs]

Joyce makes a blue or two and people go to town on it. Something you have to put up with as an unrecognised player but doesn't apply to others who have been around a while.

I mean I think I’ll have to disagree. Any recognised player will sometimes make these mistakes. The difference is they usually make up for it with a plethora of positives. Zorko dived on the ball and gave away the free against Melbourne but people don’t go to town on it because he was basically our best player. Unrecognised players will just usually have less positive impact which makes it harder to ignore the negatives.

Most unrecognised players plays their roles and aren’t superstars. They aren’t expected to do much but are expected not play their role well. McCarthy is a decent example. He’s caught some flack this year but in the end he plays his role. He isn’t as prominent or flashy but he certainly doesn’t turn it over really poorly each game as well.

Joyce played decently but he still had moments where his play cost us. Happy for him to stay in the side as I think our defensive structure with him does really well. I don’t think he’s copping it unfairly because he’s unrecognised though.


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[Mayestro]

Yep, all on the AFL app.

Edit: he also had double the score involvements than Hipwood.

I also think Hipwood played well. All our KPF did.

Thanks for that, I didn’t realise that was available. Pressure acts is there you just have to go into the players stats but you can add it to the main page.

Our best was Dunkley with 28, Gunston had 16, Harris had 8, Hipwood had 6 and Joyce had 3.

 

[M Malice]

I would like to know how they measure pressure acts, is a chase with no chance of catching like Jack Gunston

19

Jack Gunston

Age

33

Ht

193cm

Wt

86kg

Pos.

Fwd

Career

Season

Last 5

D

15.5

4star

K

10.5

4star

HB

5.0

4star

M

5.7

5star

T

2.2

4star

G

1.9

5star

D

10.6

3star

K

8.0

3star

HB

2.6

2star

M

4.3

4star

T

1.7

3star

G

1.6

5star

D

11.2

3star

K

7.0

3star

HB

4.2

4star

M

3.2

4star

T

2.6

4star

G

0.6

3star

did a couple of times yesterday classed a pressure act?

 

[Nunez]

I would like to know how they measure pressure acts, is a chase with no chance of catching like Jack Gunston did a couple of times yesterday classed a pressure act?

Counterpoint: if it's as easy as you said to get a pressure act, why was he in our top few on the ground in this area? Surely plenty would rack up 30+ amirite.

 

[Elixuh]

I would like to know how they measure pressure acts, is a chase with no chance of catching like Jack Gunston did a couple of times yesterday classed a pressure act?

Be careful what you wish for:



Pressure points definition is incorrect though...

 

[a mayes ing]

He just signed a 3 year contract didn’t he?

A mistake imo. So injury prone.

 

[Nathan Barley]

A mistake imo. So injury prone.

6 of the last 7 years he's played at least 18 games. That isn't bad

 

[M Malice]

Counterpoint: if it's as easy as you said to get a pressure act, why was he in our top few on the ground in this area? Surely plenty would rack up 30+ amirite.

I didn't say it was easy, just wanted to know if we knew how the stat was assessed.

Be careful what you wish for:

View attachment 1668024

Pressure points definition is incorrect though...

Thanks for that, makes it a lot clearer in my head, although it is still a subjective assessment, a human still has to make a judgement as to if it fits in those criteria, to my eye(which is fading) it does not look like Gunston applies a great deal of pressure.

 

[mpal6]

Whilst I agree with you 100%, they are gonna absolutely cop it in the media this week. Much like the Bulldogs did in the lead up to Round 3...

Yeah but they're coming to Gabba though. We'll beat them comfortably.

 

[martinson]

I mean I think I’ll have to disagree. Any recognised player will sometimes make these mistakes. The difference is they usually make up for it with a plethora of positives. Zorko dived on the ball and gave away the free against Melbourne but people don’t go to town on it because he was basically our best player. Unrecognised players will just usually have less positive impact which makes it harder to ignore the negatives.

Most unrecognised players plays their roles and aren’t superstars. They aren’t expected to do much but are expected not play their role well. McCarthy is a decent example. He’s caught some flack this year but in the end he plays his role. He isn’t as prominent or flashy but he certainly doesn’t turn it over really poorly each game as well.

Joyce played decently but he still had moments where his play cost us. Happy for him to stay in the side as I think our defensive structure with him does really well. I don’t think he’s copping it unfairly because he’s unrecognised though.


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I didn't express my meaning well. My point included unavoidable things that happen in games thrown up more often as mistakes for an unrecognised player than your better players.

But to your broader points I agree. And overall no one has copped it more on here than Zorko.

 

[Berrygood]

For a cpl of inexperienced tall defenders, Payne and Joyce with 27 and 13 games respectively coming into the season, they have both done a very good job. Paynes improvement has been noticeable, and he looks so confident at the moment. Joyce has been solid, a few errors here n there, but expected from a 13 gamer. He has also had to come into a new team, learn our game plan, learn how the other lads go about it and learn how to fit in accordingly. Obviously a quick study. He'll get better n better as the season goes on. Well worth a contract extension, I'd give him 2yrs. Both these lads are working so well with Andrews and because of that Harris is having the best season he's had in a long time. It's turning into quite a good unit back there.

 

[Section 5]

Yes I agree with most of this. I am perhaps a little more optimistic about Joyce. I like his mobility for a tall defender. Obviously still learning the game.

Fullerton has impressed me in the VFL playing forward ruck, but I am in full agreement that we need to trial him at full back to provide an alternative to our current group of AFL tall defenders in case of injuries. I do not like Gunston as a defender, obviously lost some pace, which I guess he can cover through game sense in the forward line because he is always likely to kick a few goals.

i know you watch the VFL. Do you think Lester has lost a yard? I have been a Lester admirer for years because he always gIves a 100% and gets the best out of himself. However I worry that as the game speeds up and he slows down he will get exposed at AFL level. Still a very solid VFL player and great leader at that level.

Lester could fill an AFL role at a pinch but i now just see him playing a leadership role for the younger guys.
I would think 2023 will be his last year as a player for the Lions. Agree he always gave his all and would do so again if recalled.
One thing for sure is you don't get faster as a player as you get older. Injuries, wear and tear of games and training slow almost all players down.
Regarding the 3rd KPD player.
I have come to the conclusion that Fagan preferers a bit more weight over a reasonable height to hold that spot.
Joyce most likely holds his spot, but I would still like to see Fullarton play defense for a few games.
I am just a little concerned someone gets thrown into that role if one of Andrews, Payne or Joyce get suspended or injured.
Below our options in my opinion for that 3rd KPF spot without a left field pick. Unless they go small but i don't think that helps Andrews.

Player	Height cm	Weight kg	Player	Height cm	Weight kg
Adams (guide only)	192	98	Gunston (an option)	193	only 86
Joyce (5 games)	194	95	Lester (last option)	192	only 84
Gardiner (best 22 but injured)	192	91	Fullarton	200	98

 

[martinson]

For a cpl of inexperienced tall defenders, Payne and Joyce with 27 and 13 games respectively coming into the season, they have both done a very good job. Paynes improvement has been noticeable, and he looks so confident at the moment. Joyce has been solid, a few errors here n there, but expected from a 13 gamer. He has also had to come into a new team, learn our game plan, learn how the other lads go about it and learn how to fit in accordingly. Obviously a quick study. He'll get better n better as the season goes on. Well worth a contract extension, I'd give him 2yrs. Both these lads are working so well with Andrews and because of that Harris is having the best season he's had in a long time. It's turning into quite a good unit back there.

I don't want to put the mozz on Payne but he's starting to look like a really solid ,assured defender with exceptional physical attributes. Looked and played like Tarzan yesterday . And he has terrific closing speed for a big man.

The point you raise re Joyce is also a very good one imo. He's relatively inexperienced and just trying to find his feet and not muck up. I know some question him but there's got to be a lot of improvement there with more games under his belt. And again his size is an attribute that comes in handy most of the time.

 

[Tom14]

6 of the last 7 years he's played at least 18 games. That isn't bad

Also weren’t any reasonably priced options on the market last year, particularly with us having no picks to trade for anyone. Given the adams situation made sense to re-sign him. I do think a kpd is a good fa target in the next few years.

 

[martinson]

Also weren’t any reasonably priced options on the market last year, particularly with us having no picks to trade for anyone. Given the adams situation made sense to re-sign him. I do think a kpd is a good fa target in the next few years.

In hindsight the list manager did a great job to pick up Joyce for nothing and see him play Senior games soon after and play his role very effectively mostly.

Resigning Dizz for so long was an eyebrow raiser but I suppose it's understandable why we did. Let's hope he can get back on the park.

 

[Dalions]

Also weren’t any reasonably priced options on the market last year, particularly with us having no picks to trade for anyone. Given the adams situation made sense to re-sign him. I do think a kpd is a good fa target in the next few years.

Would love to try and get Josh Gibcus out of Richmond.
Was a Lions fan from memory and is a talent.

 

[Viceregal]

Whatever, we'll win by 50 instead of 90...

Sqiggle forecast (atm) is Brisbane Lions 92 - 66 Fremantle

 

[Vimal Anand]

Sqiggle forecast (atm) is Brisbane Lions 92 - 66 Fremantle

Lions will score more than 100... may be 115-66

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[a mayes ing]

6 of the last 7 years he's played at least 18 games. That isn't bad

I don't mind him being resigned but the 3 years was overkill. Pretty sure he was looking around at the end of last season and there wasn't any takers. Probably should have been 2 years and the option for a 3rd if he gets to 15+ games for the 2 years. His injury history is pretty bad despite games played. He looks like he will fall off a cliff any time soon. And really, his form has gone down quite a bit with the amount of injuries he has had, so it is not like he demanded 3 years anyway.

 

[Nathan Barley]

I don't mind him being resigned but the 3 years was overkill. Pretty sure he was looking around at the end of last season and there wasn't any takers. Probably should have been 2 years and the option for a 3rd if he gets to 15+ games for the 2 years. His injury history is pretty bad despite games played. He looks like he will fall off a cliff any time soon. And really, his form has gone down quite a bit with the amount of injuries he has had, so it is not like he demanded 3 years anyway.

Quite a few assumptions in this post