Unofficial Preview Changes & discussion v Saints @ Marvel Round 15.

[M Malice]

Do we overly focus on the last few spots compared to their importance? Yes. Fair call.

But i would respectfully disagree that the impact is always minimal. It definitely can be - for example if we are debating Berry v Ah Chee - neither huge ball winners, both role-players, same position, likely won't affect match much. There have been plenty of similar debates over the years on here.

But Fort vs Gunston - that's a big difference. Fort wasn't amazing on Friday but changes our structure because the dump kick won't get outmarked with him there, and gives us 2 rucks and allows us to change him and Oscar if we want. Similarly Rich for Fletcher is a big change - our run goes up a lot, our backline has no slow player with Wilmot for Rich.

With 75 interchanges and constantly fresh players there's nowhere to hide for someone. Having Rich and Gunston as total liabilities in terms of run in recent weeks has left us exposed. Swapping them both out makes us look like a very different team. Here's hoping we can make that work v Saints and keep plenty of the run in. BUT i must admit i find this week very difficult as to how to make that happen. Two obvious ins, to me no obvious outs despite a mediocre overall performance v swans, which would have been a lot better with straight kicking.

There's a possibility that Daniel Rich and/or Jack Gunston announce their retirements before the end of the H&A season, I can't see either wanting to stick around to play VFL footy.

No problem re Richy as he is OOC this year, Jack has another year, may have to offer him a coaching gig for 2024.

 

[3KZ is Football]

Wins and losses are linked to team selection but the impact of team selection, especially changing the 20th to 22nd selected players around is massively overstated on here. Regardless of online rhetoric, no one at the club will be looking at team selection and evaluating Fagan based off that - they'll look at results first and foremost - and any examination of team selection will likely just highly the limited impact Rich vs Wilmot moving back, or Gunston vs Fort vs Fullarton would be.

It's not like the various ins and outs are coming in and proving to be a hidden star that would turn our fortunes around - at best they have been solid role players. Funnily enough one of the better ins this year IMO is the one you then drop in Fletcher.

I think Lohmann is a bit stronger at physically this stage. What do you think. An extra year or so in the system gives him the edge?

 

[McIvor]

Would love to keep Lohmann in, but just don't see how that happens.

Drop Linc - his output has been pretty sub par for some time and is another in the undroppable squad for reasons lost on me.

 

[DERRINALPHIL]

I like Fort in to provide plenty of rest for the Big O'

When Fort went into the ruck he won (dominated?) the centre square. Oscar is also a player that can take a grab up forward and I think he could be a real weapon being fresh at the start of the last quarter.

Cannot make my mind up who to drop but take no risks with Zorko as he will be crucial later in the year

 

[M Malice]

Drop Linc - his output has been pretty sub par for some time and is another in the undroppable squad for reasons lost on me.

Linc is one I initially thought could be an omission to keep both Jaspa and Kai in the team.

I wouldn't be dead set against it however Linc does do a lot of unnoticed pressuring and chasing, I don't think there is any way he gets omitted.

No matter how I look at it at the least 1 of Lohmann or Fletcher has to go out for Zorko or McCluggage, only chance 1 of them stays in is if we go smaller and Fort is omitted.

 

[Dalions]

Drop Linc - his output has been pretty sub par for some time and is another in the undroppable squad for reasons lost on me.

Pretty sure it was Jimmy Bartel just after the game, had Linc just outside the votes as the 5 best on ground.

 

[Sherrinator]

That lions.com article says that Darcy Gardiner is available for selection, will be interesting to see if he is selected as the only likely out for him would be Ryan Lester.

Hopefully not

 

[Nathan Barley]

Linc seems to be getting up the ground more and getting more of the ball the last few weeks. Uses it well generally

 

[dlanod]

I think Lohmann is a bit stronger at physically this stage. What do you think. An extra year or so in the system gives him the edge?

I don't think they play the same role. Dev is the bridge between the two, given how we've played him so far dabbling in both pressure forward and wing, but I'd drop Lohmann for Zorko and Dev (before Fletcher) for McCluggage.

 

[McIvor]

Id like to see Ah Chee getting a sustained run. He is one player that I am just mystified how he is not best 22.

 

[p4p1]

Don't agree.

I think we lose too much if we don't have a third key up forward. Besides the fact Daniher's ruck effectiveness has dropped off over the past 6 weeks (or he's been found out - take your pick), if we don't have another up there, the knock on effect when JD goes into the ruck is too much IMO. You'd have Hipwood getting the best tall defender, and then Rayner/someone else getting the second best tall. Too much of a risk for mine.

The issue IMO with having the 3rd tall up forward when we have Fort (or Gunston) is that we lose a bit of run, which compared to some other teams is already one of our weaknesses. The 3 talls when we had McStay, who by no means was great still worked because he is a pretty decent athlete himself and covered a lot of ground. My honest opinion of McStay is he may have been more effective in a different role, wing, defense, even in the middle, given how much ground he was able to cover and he wasn't a great key forward.
Rayner himself is probably a better contested mark than both Joe and Hippy, so I don't really see the issue of him taking the 2nd best defender at times.

 

[p4p1]

Fort has to play in this game which doesn't mean he will. But the 2 rucks has always worked well for us.

It definitely worked against Melbourne this year but that could have been because Gawn went down early. I think in todays modern game, if you're going to have 2 rucks one of them has to have some kind of x-factor so that you're not essentially one rotation down on the bench. If the resting ruck can't play as an AFL level tall forward then I believe you lose too much in terms of run. One of my main gripes with our coaching panel is that they seem to come up with our game plan and move the players around to suit that plan. I wonder if we would be better trying more to adjust our game plan to our players strengths and weaknesses. I'm sure the coaching staff do that but it does feel like, once we have decided on our best 22 players, we make a plan at the beginning of the season and stick to it, regardless of injuries, player improvement during the year etc.
I know for instance we have been in agreement about using Berry as a bail out kick more often given 90% of the time he has a very obvious size advantage on his opponent.

 

[Dalions]

Id like to see Ah Chee getting a sustained run. He is one player that I am just mystified how he is not best 22.

I honestly think we have seen the best we are going to see from AhChee and if he were to come in we will see some flashes and then not get the ball for a quarter of footy.
He is a good honest footballer and a great bloke but with the depth we currently have and a short injury list I don’t personally think he is best 22 anymore.

 

[Nathan Barley]

Id like to see Ah Chee getting a sustained run. He is one player that I am just mystified how he is not best 22.

I think he's small half back depth at the moment

 

[JB42]

Hopefully not

On current fitness and form, Lester is the better player. Let Gardiner get fit (running fit) and find form in the twos. Gardiner is a very good player when fit and in form. At the moment he is neither.

 

[Gadzorks]

Drop Linc - his output has been pretty sub par for some time and is another in the undroppable squad for reasons lost on me.

His offence is what we think defined his role, so looks down in output.

But his defence was awesome. Don't see him being dropped

 

[Gadzorks]

I want Fletcher to stay in as a wing. It's a role that hasn't been working well for us, and he seemed a perfect fit.

 

[p4p1]

I want Fletcher to stay in as a wing. It's a role that hasn't been working well for us, and he seemed a perfect fit.

Is it the game plan or the players that has caused it not to look great for us? I'm not 100% sure either way. What I do think is clear is we don't value the wing as much as other options. We seem to use the wing role for younger players, or in Berry's case to keep him match fit and manage his inside mid time. We have/had one of the best wingman in the game but the coaches believe he is more useful in the guts, presumably because of our game plan and how we want to use our wings.

 

[Nathan Barley]

Is it the game plan or the players that has caused it not to look great for us? I'm not 100% sure either way. What I do think is clear is we don't value the wing as much as other options. We seem to use the wing role for younger players, or in Berry's case to keep him match fit and manage his inside mid time. We have/had one of the best wingman in the game but the coaches believe he is more useful in the guts, presumably because of our game plan and how we want to use our wings.

Very hard to tell. The wings were quite influential against Sydney and Berry has had some good games. Hard to imagine our gameplan has changed that much between games

Just luck?

 

[BuntonRules]

Could we play a quicker backline and bring Madden in for Lester?

Play Lester as the sub for coverage

I am a fan boy of Madden and would like him to get an extended go but I can't see that happening.

Would love to see Motty, Conor and Madden running out of the backline. Some serious get up and go.

 

[M Malice]

Would love to see Motty, Conor and Madden running out of the backline. Some serious get up and go.

Hard to get the 3 of them in the back 7 rotation though. Andrews, Payner, Starcevich are locks, then you have one of Lester/Gardiner as the 3rd tall, so 3 spots open between, Madden, McKenna, Coleman and Wilmot.

 

[Sanchez365]

James Madden is 188cm tall, which makes him a little undersized as a 3rd tall but that's the only way I see him really breaking in at this point. He's only 23 so has some time, but even McKenna who followed a similar path had shown a lot more by his age.

 

[Nathan Barley]

James Madden is 188cm tall, which makes him a little undersized as a 3rd tall but that's the only way I see him really breaking in at this point. He's only 23 so has some time, but even McKenna who followed a similar path had shown a lot more by his age.

Just means we have to flood

 

[Sanchez365]

Just means we have to flood

Considering that 3rd tall space is currently Gardiner / Lester, who them selves are really undersized to play as a true key back man.

We really need an intercepting half back as that 3rd tall, in the mould of a Sicily or Vlastuin. Not sure if Madden has the overhead skill or game reading ability to really thrive in that role though.

Out of our current best 22 I feel like Berry would be the best option. He's 192 so similar height to Lester and Gardiner. It also leaves spots open for Fletcher and Sharp to become our two main wingers who both are probably more suited to the role anyways.

 

[Section 5]

From wheeloratings.com