Unofficial Preview Changes & discussion v the Hawks @ MCG after our Sabbatical.

[KissKiss]

The problem is that Lyons offers little else except in the actual stoppage. He's not fast enough for defensive pressure when he's up forward, and he's also exposed at center bounces. It also stifles the development of other guys that we need to take over that midfield. That said he would of been a good choice in the wet game we just played.

As was posted by Nathan Barley (I think), we are currently +5.5 clearances differential, broken into 3.9 stoppage differential and 1.5 center clearance differential. So adding Lyons would strengthen what we are already doing well, while most likely weaken where we could be doing better.

Teams are allowing us to have an extra number at the stoppage, so they can have an extra number behind the ball. We normally manufacture either Rich or Coleman as that person, this week Rich got 5 clearances (although 2 have been credited as center clearances some how?), But I remember quite a few times him being off the back of a stoppage on the wing where he got clean possession, but mostly just hoofed it forward.

We don't have data on the quality of those clearances (even though I'm sure it exists), but I feel like this is something we need to improve on. Fages seems happy to be getting inside 50s, but we are allowing 16.7 intercept marks a game against us (ranked 12 in the AFL).

I think for both this clearance differential number and our generally high scoring ability its worth both noting that they are excellent stats but you cant sit still in this comp. If you keep things the same the opposition will look and find weaknesses. If you sit still you are going backwards.

We need to keep tinkering to see if we can make some slight improvements. We have fiddled around with Ashcroft/McCluggage/Berry and a couple of others spending more or less time at the contest. The centre bounce attendance show that we have been willing to try different things there. But we havent attempted to really mix the personal up (baring Lyons being sub for a game or 2). At this mid point in the year I think we really need to look at what Dev/Lyons can do for a game or 2. We need to look at other options in the forward line other than Gunston

 

[mattsmob]

I don't think there was any fake tough guy rubbish stuff, if you watch it Zorks playfully pats Pedlar on the chest a few times and was whispering sweet nothings in his ear, they both had a chuckle about it.

I have little doubt if it was Bont, Danger or Dusty there would not have been a charge and the media would have been pushing the narrative that is not part of their game.

The difference is you never see those kind of guys do stuff like this, Danger can go in a bit reckless at times but couldn’t imagine him laying on someone’s back with his hand on the other players face.

Whether it was playful or not the first action of putting his hands into Pedlar’s face is just unnecessary.

 

[Sanchez365]

I think for both this clearance differential number and our generally high scoring ability its worth both noting that they are excellent stats but you cant sit still in this comp. If you keep things the same the opposition will look and find weaknesses. If you sit still you are going backwards.

We need to keep tinkering to see if we can make some slight improvements. We have fiddled around with Ashcroft/McCluggage/Berry and a couple of others spending more or less time at the contest. The centre bounce attendance show that we have been willing to try different things there. But we havent attempted to really mix the personal up (baring Lyons being sub for a game or 2). At this mid point in the year I think we really need to look at what Dev/Lyons can do for a game or 2. We need to look at other options in the forward line other than Gunston

I fundamentally agree with all of this and I see the merit in restructuring the team to get a say Dev / Prior in, (youth, some unknowns about quality, potential for growth) as opposed to Lyons (a known quantity).

Personally I have got Gunston, Berry, McCarthy and Wilmot as ones that I have thought had less impact the past few weeks. But out of them no guarantee the other options in Dev / Prior / Cockatoo / Lyons are a guaranteed upgrade and we just came off a 7 game winning streak. Fages also has the mantra of stability over chopping and changing and the guys we have in the reserves don't really play any of the roles these guys are doing.

 

[Strato]

I think for both this clearance differential number and our generally high scoring ability its worth both noting that they are excellent stats but you cant sit still in this comp. If you keep things the same the opposition will look and find weaknesses. If you sit still you are going backwards.

We need to keep tinkering to see if we can make some slight improvements. We have fiddled around with Ashcroft/McCluggage/Berry and a couple of others spending more or less time at the contest. The centre bounce attendance show that we have been willing to try different things there. But we havent attempted to really mix the personal up (baring Lyons being sub for a game or 2). At this mid point in the year I think we really need to look at what Dev/Lyons can do for a game or 2. We need to look at other options in the forward line other than Gunston

Totally agree with you. Being a baby boomer and being in and around football most of my life, I learnt along time ago that if you continually play the same selected side week after week it becomes no selection advantage to the side itself. Opposition clubs are not dumb and are continually scanning through clubs/players/performances/results in an attempt to gain an advantage whatever it may be. Up against the better sides in the comp what advantage do we get with same selections week after week - none. We are playing players out of form and should not be in the side on performance - 3,4,5,6,7 or 8 possessions week after week. If we keep progressing along with this selection attitude and as the season gets longer, injuries, form and lack of opportunities will find us wanting. We have players in the reserves in great form, wanting to prove themselves at the highest level but starved of a good 3 to 4 game chance or just getting a last quarter or so Sub game. We need to fine tune our side, mix it up a bit and always play in form players. We have a lot of players that can play at the highest level in the club but if we continue go with the same old team selections we will pay the price.

 

[lionshine]

In Payne Lohmann Robertson Ah Chee
Out Lester Gunston Zorko Rich

Ah Chee to play wing, Wilmot to half back. Lohmann in for Gunston with Rayner playing the third tall marking option. Dev for Zorks and Payne back in for Lester or Gardiner. Prior, Cockatoo or Tunstill for sub.

Berry on thin ice with Prior breathing down his neck.

 

[On the quiet]

In Payne Lohmann Robertson Ah Chee
Out Lester Gunston Zorko Rich

Ah Chee to play wing, Wilmot to half back. Lohmann in for Gunston with Rayner playing the third tall marking option. Dev for Zorks and Payne back in for Lester or Gardiner. Prior, Cockatoo or Tunstill for sub.

Berry on thin ice with Prior breathing down his neck.

I don't disagree with the outs but I just cannot see Fages dropping/managing Gunston against the Hawkes and Rich at any stage being dropped

 

[scoman]

Randow thoughts.....

Team needs more Fort.

Wilmott a better half back then winger. I understand that's how he fits into a best 22, but I'd rather see him at half back.

Coleman and McKenna kicking out please. Rich is so predictable and is making errors when he tries something different.

Need to find a way to get Rayner more involved than playing half forward. Either play him more regularly out of the goal square or give him minutes in the middle.

Berry needs a cuddle or something. Maybe a hike up a mountain to find his mojo, or a little holiday. Seems off.

 

[lionshine]

I don't disagree with the outs but I just cannot see Fages dropping/managing Gunston against the Hawkes and Rich at any stage being dropped

Yeah I agree

 

[beardancer]

Lyons.

lyons has been excellent in the ressies

 

[M Malice]

Injury List

Jack Payne (delayed concussion test)

Noah Answerth

43

Noah Answerth

Age

24

Ht

183cm

Wt

82kg

Pos.

D/F

Career

Season

Last 5

D

12.0

3star

K

8.6

3star

HB

3.4

3star

M

3.7

4star

T

2.9

4star

MG

208.9

3star

D

15.0

4star

K

15.0

5star

HB

0.0

1star

M

4.0

4star

T

2.0

3star

MG

357.0

5star

D

12.0

3star

K

7.8

3star

HB

4.2

4star

M

3.4

4star

T

3.0

5star

MG

179.2

3star

(concussion test)

Shadeau Brain (shoulder 2-3 weeks)

Carter Michael (quad 2-3 weeks)

Rhys Mathieson

36

Rhys Mathieson

Age

27

Ht

186cm

Wt

86kg

Pos.

M/F

Career

Season

Last 5

D

17.1

4star

K

7.9

3star

HB

9.2

5star

M

2.9

3star

T

3.4

5star

CL

3.4

5star

No current season stats available

D

18.4

5star

K

9.4

4star

HB

9.0

5star

M

2.2

3star

T

4.0

5star

CL

2.8

5star

(hamstring 5-6 weeks)
________________________________________________

If Jack Payne doesn't make it back after a month off it will be a huge concern.

 

[martinson]

Injury List

Jack Payne (delayed concussion test)

Noah Answerth (concussion test)

Shadeau Brain (shoulder 2-3 weeks)

Carter Michael (quad 2-3 weeks)

Rhys Mathieson (hamstring 5-6 weeks)
________________________________________________

If Jack Payne doesn't make it back after a month off it will be a huge concern.

That's a paper thin injury list. We've got a list to just about put our best team on the park.

I agree with those who think we could benefit from mixing it up a bit. Fages is old school and you put your best team out there, everyone knows what they have to do and you stick with it until it's conclusively not working. I think his experience has taught him that's the best way to go.

I'd like to see us a little more creative but he's got us this far and the next 2 years will tell the story imo.

We got battered with injuries/soreness near the end last year. This year we don't have that excuse ,so far.

 

[beardancer]

I'd go.

Payne Gardiner and frog as the tall defence and replace Gunston with Harris Andrews

31

Harris Andrews

Age

27

Ht

202cm

Wt

98kg

Pos.

Def

Career

Season

Last 5

D

12.8

3star

K

7.4

3star

HB

5.4

4star

M

5.6

5star

T

1.6

4star

MG

151.7

2star

D

17.0

4star

K

9.0

4star

HB

8.0

4star

M

4.0

4star

T

2.0

3star

D

9.8

3star

K

5.0

2star

HB

4.8

4star

M

3.4

4star

T

1.6

4star

MG

94.0

2star

. Andrews is the best, cleanest overhead mark we have. Let Joe and Eric run the flanks and wings, they both seem better in that roll.

As a bit of a left field idea, I'd like to give Madden a run as a lead up forward, starting deep and leading at the ball carrier. Madden has insane speed and can mark. Madden needs some out of the box coasching to make it work.

 

[beardancer]

Injury List

Jack Payne (delayed concussion test)

Noah Answerth (concussion test)

Shadeau Brain (shoulder 2-3 weeks)

Carter Michael (quad 2-3 weeks)

Rhys Mathieson (hamstring 5-6 weeks)
________________________________________________

If Jack Payne doesn't make it back after a month off it will be a huge concern.

Oh s**t!

 

[martinson]

I'd go.

Payne Gardiner and frog as the tall defence and replace Gunston with Harris Andrews. Andrews is the best, cleanest overhead mark we have. Let Joe and Eric run the flanks and wings, they both seem better in that roll.

As a bit of a left field idea, I'd like to give Madden a run as a lead up forward, starting deep and leading at the ball carrier. Madden has insane speed and can mark. Madden needs some out of the box coasching to make it work.

I can't see Madden as a consistent senior player on anything I've seen.

 

[twhowler]

Qscan Injury Update: Lions Gain Payne

The Brisbane Lions are expected to benefit from the timing of the bye, with up to three players set to return from injury next week.

www.lions.com.au

Worth reading - Payne running and ‘set’ ti return for hawks

Not sure why ppl think he might not be back let alone talk of a month…?

 

[briztoon]

I don't disagree with the outs but I just cannot see Fages dropping/managing Gunston against the Hawkes and Rich at any stage being dropped

And there is lays a "problem" for many supporters (including myself).

 

[BuntonRules]

We just can't pick a team that old and slow, and hope to take the next step.

 

[vic_LION]

I'm happy to give Gunston a few more games post-bye, but hopefully we can try some things and mix it up before the end of the finals.

I much prefer the rotation and testing of different players in the backline that we saw in the first half of the year, and now know concretely what Lester, Joyce, Rayner + to a lesser extent Gardiner offer us back there this year. Would like to see the same approach taken with the forward line

 

[scoman]

I'm happy to give Gunston a few more games post-bye, but hopefully we can try some things and mix it up before the end of the finals.

I much prefer the rotation and testing of different players in the backline that we saw in the first half of the year, and now know concretely what Lester, Joyce, Rayner + to a lesser extent Gardiner offer us back there this year. Would like to see the same approach taken with the forward line

Yeah most felt Lyons needed to be dropped last year about 6 weeks before he finally was. Was left too late imho, I hope it's not history repeating with Gunston. We can't wait till a couple weeks from finals and then try to re-shape the forward line.

 

[mpal6]

I hope we come back with the loss still stinging and wanting to fix it. We don't play that well against Hawks usually and this MCG game is crucial for setting up the rest of our season. I was leaning on the idea of Hawks tanking for Reid but they're on a 2 match winning streak now and will have their tails up.

 

[Nunez]

And there is lays a "problem" for many supporters (including myself).

Gunston is safe at this stage I reckon.

I don't think Rich is as undroppable as Jack.

 

[Nunez]

Yeah most felt Lyons needed to be dropped last year about 6 weeks before he finally was. Was left too late imho, I hope it's not history repeating with Gunston. We can't wait till a couple weeks from finals and then try to re-shape the forward line.

Very different situation though. Gunston is our sixth forward, Lyons was our second mid.

 

[briztoon]

Gunston is safe at this stage I reckon.

I don't think Rich is as undroppable as Jack.

There are two issues here that I haven’t got time to go in to.

 

[twhowler]

The thing is we have seen this playout before re Rich.

Birchall had declined much more than Rich. And the club owed him nothing. And he was never dropped. So it just won’t happen will it? Even if Rich goes downhill further.

Dropping Jones was a sign of Melbourne’s ruthlessness in 2021 on the way to a flag. I thought maybe Robinson was our own version of that. But it seems the exception rather than the rule with Fagan / MC.

 

[Nathan Barley]

Rich deserves the chance to play some consistent footy which he hasn't had this year yet