Unofficial Preview Changes & discussion v the Saints round 13 @ Gabba.

[Nunez]

You get a sense of how ordinary Adams was from the ‘highlights’ package from Round 1. There is no way he is currently in our best 22 if available and anyone who thinks he is a walk up start once “fit” is doing a disservice to our current defensive unit, which is doing very well.

If you're intent on pulling a one game example how about I pull out his game against Geelong where he toweled Hawkins?

If fit and with match fitness, he is 100% in our best 22. For one, he'd be able to take on the talls Dizzy is currently responsible for, meaning Gardiner can get back on small/medium forwards and Andrews can focus on intercepts. Even if we opted to not use him as a defender, he'd be able to play forward (regarding McStay can chop out in the ruck) he is an elite mark, has great speed and is very strong - exactly what we need in our backline right now.

 

[bungalow_bill]

A fit Adams is certainly best 22 to begin and up to him if he remains. Would probably relegate Lester to the fringe tho.

 

[jackess]

Even Daniel Bradshaw was swung to defence to very good effect when required.

Similarly, Dan Merrett was also swung forward to good effect too.

You’re right though, rarely are our keys swapped around anymore.

Which team does this?

Wait, we’ve played Walker forward and back, same with McStay, even Adams played forward last year.

Ballenden and Skinner have done it in the 2s. We switched Eagles back too

 

[Dylan12]

Which team does this?

Wait, we’ve played Walker forward and back, same with McStay, even Adams played forward last year.

Ballenden and Skinner have done it in the 2s. We switched Eagles back too

Obviously my post was in response to another highlighting that we have done it in the past.

As for Adams playing forward; give me a break. He’s slow and can barely kick 40m. Pass. Laughable how overrated Adams is on this board.

 

[3KZ is Football]

Even Daniel Bradshaw was swung to defence to very good effect when required.

Similarly, Dan Merrett was also swung forward to good effect too.

You’re right though, rarely are our keys swapped around anymore.

I was at a game in 1979 where we were getting killed by Hawthorn at Princess Park and Bill Stephen moved Chris Smith to full forward where he kicked 3 goals and we got up after an eight goal final quarter. It was a coaching master stroke.

 

[3KZ is Football]

If you're intent on pulling a one game example how about I pull out his game against Geelong where he toweled Hawkins?

If fit and with match fitness, he is 100% in our best 22. For one, he'd be able to take on the talls Dizzy is currently responsible for, meaning Gardiner can get back on small/medium forwards and Andrews can focus on intercepts. Even if we opted to not use him as a defender, he'd be able to play forward (regarding McStay can chop out in the ruck) he is an elite mark, has great speed and is very strong - exactly what we need in our backline right now.

Time will tell. For mine, Lester is a better footballer than Adams and he has gone ahead of him on form and physical durability.

 

[jackess]

Obviously my post was in response to another highlighting that we have done it in the past.

As for Adams playing forward; give me a break. He’s slow and can barely kick 40m. Pass. Laughable how overrated Adams is on this board.

Your post said rarely are our keys swapped around.

 

[Nunez]

Time will tell. For mine, Lester is a better footballer than Adams and he has gone ahead of him on form and physical durability.

Does Lester take on Charlie Dixon or Tom Hawkins in the finals?

 

[Dylan12]

I was at a game in 1979 where we were getting killed by Hawthorn at Princess Park and Bill Stephen moved Chris Smith to full forward where he kicked 3 goals and we got up after an eight goal final quarter. It was a coaching master stroke.

That was before my time, but I was at this game as a young fella and remember when your backs would drift forward and kick the winning goal:

 

[Dylan12]

Does Lester take on Charlie Dixon or Tom Hawkins in the finals?

Who knows, but at least Ryan can actually get on the park unlike Adams who'll again assume his position in the stands and be really useful.

Since Adams has been in the system, he has played 38 out of a possible 96 games across his 5 years. Are we really going to rely on someone with that track record?

 

[Nunez]

Who knows, but at least Ryan can actually get on the park unlike Adams who'll again assume his position in the stands and be really useful.

If both were fit, who would you back against Hawkins, Dixon or Lynch - Lester or Adams?

My response to 3KZ was clearly regarding Adams the footballer on the park, not Adams durability which is obviously questionable at best.

 

[Dylan12]

If both were fit, who would you back against Hawkins, Dixon or Lynch - Lester or Adams?

Adams.

But it is unlikely we'll be in a position to actually make such a decision given Adams' is rarely available.

 

[3KZ is Football]

Does Lester take on Charlie Dixon or Tom Hawkins in the finals?

Nah Harris Andrews our All Australian Full Back does. Speaking about finals though, Adams put in two relatively poor performances in our finals games last year. He had 7 disposals against Richmond and had a slightly better game against GWS with 10 disposals and 5 marks. Tellingly, he only managed to lay a total of 2 tackles from both games. He is slow, a poor decision maker and not much of a kick. He has also never managed to play more than 11 games in any season. Project player at best.

 

[3KZ is Football]

Who knows, but at least Ryan can actually get on the park unlike Adams who'll again assume his position in the stands and be really useful.

Since Adams has been in the system, he has played 38 out of a possible 96 games across his 5 years. Are we really going to rely on someone with that track record?

I do - Harris Andrews will play on them and Gardiner, Lester and Birchall will line up on the other talls / medium forwards. Worked really well this season.
For the record, in HIS last game Ryan Lester had 12 disposals, took 6 marks, had 5 tackles and put his body on the line countless times with spoils and possessions that locked the ball up and forced a stoppage. Contrast this with Adams who, despite his size, plays bruise free football and struggles with his tackling.

 

[3KZ is Football]

That was before my time, but I was at this game as a young fella and remember when your backs would drift forward and kick the winning goal:

At that one too.

 

[TheZork]

I do - Harris Andrews will play on them and Gardiner, Lester and Birchall will line up on the other talls / medium forwards. Worked really well this season.
For the record, in HIS last game Ryan Lester had 12 disposals, took 6 marks, had 5 tackles and put his body on the line countless times with spoils and possessions that locked the ball up and forced a stoppage.

But we don't want to be getting exposed like Port for being undersized, I think thats the issue here. Take next weekend for example. Andrews on King, Gardiner on Membrey and Lester (191cm) on their resting ruck. Seems like a recipe for disaster. Same against Richmond and Geelong. I agree the 3 we've been running with have been alright, but I think we need to be more flexible if we're playing against teams with more talls. Which is why Payne needs to play.

 

[3KZ is Football]

But we don't want to be getting exposed like Port for being undersized, I think thats the issue here. Take this weekend for example. Andrews on King, Gardiner on Membrey and Lester (191cm) on their resting ruck. Seems like a recipe for disaster. Same against Richmond and Geelong. I agree the 3 we've been running with have been alright but I think we need to be more flexible if we're playing against teams with more talls. Which is why Payne needs to play.

Birchall? Lester’s 192cm on the club website.

 

[TheZork]

Birchall?

I personally don't think he's defensively good enough to be playing as a 3rd tall, also we want him in attacking positions. Which is why I'd rotate Payne and Lester out of the side depending on the opposition line-up. Thats just me though.

 

[bungalow_bill]

Hopefully Adams stays on the park this time around.

 

[StevoJenkins]

Birchall?

Birchall has actually been exposed multiple times this season for not being good at 1v1’s. He’s there to find open space and be kicked to in order to get the ball out.

 

[martinson]

Our current backline is half a player too small against the better forward lines. It doesn't mean we can't beat them ,it just means that if they play well they're likely to get a lot of goals from us scragging , giving away frees or being outmarked if the ball comes in properly.

That's obvious. If we don't have anyone we need to compromise. The only answer is Payne if Adams doesn't come up which seems likely . And if Payne isn't up to it we need to compromise bigly. The only other viable option is McStay . Which is a good option but we might be taking away too much from our forward half.

No good worrying about what we haven't got ,just need to make the best of what we have.

 

[Nunez]

Nah Harris Andrews our All Australian Full Back does. Speaking about finals though, Adams put in two relatively poor performances in our finals games last year. He had 7 disposals against Richmond and had a slightly better game against GWS with 10 disposals and 5 marks. Tellingly, he only managed to lay a total of 2 tackles from both games. He is slow, a poor decision maker and not much of a kick. He has also never managed to play more than 11 games in any season, Project player at best.

If we're going to rate KPD based off disposals and marks then Harris Andrews was horrible in finals. He only managed 11 touches and 2 marks against GWS and ONE tackle. Against Richmond he only had 8 touches, 2 marks, but managed four tackles so BETTER BUT NOT GOOD.

That is the problem with looking at KPD based off metrics such as disposals and even marks is it is extremely floored. If a KPDs role is to spoil everything and block for smalls to carry the ball out, said player could finish with very few touches, marks and tackles. Obviously that's not to say marking KPD aren't worth their weight in gold.

Last year, a fit Adams averaged the same marks and intercept possessions as Andrews and as a team conceded less points per game than before Adams played. He is best 22 when fit.

 

[martinson]

If we're going to rate KPD based off disposals and marks then Harris Andrews was horrible in finals. He only managed 11 touches and 2 marks against GWS and ONE tackle. Against Richmond he only had 8 touches, 2 marks, but managed four tackles so BETTER BUT NOT GOOD.

That is the problem with looking at KPD based off metrics such as disposals and even marks is it is extremely floored. If a KPDs role is to spoil everything and block for smalls to carry the ball out, said player could finish with very few touches, marks and tackles. Obviously that's not to say marking KPD aren't worth their weight in gold.

Last year, a fit Adams averaged the same marks and intercept possessions as Andrews and as a team conceded less points per game than before Adams played. He is best 22 when fit.

I nearly got crucified last time I said this but I don't think Harris was all that good last year. He made AA because it was time . He's been much better this year imo and is far more solid. Probably earnt the right to best KPD in the game.

But you're right. He was underwhelming in the finals. The way the ball was coming in in those two games gave him no hope on occasions.

 

[Nunez]

I nearly got crucified last time I said this but I don't think Harris was all that good last year. He made AA because it was time . He's been much better this year imo and is far more solid. Probably earnt the right to best KPD in the game.

But you're right. He was underwhelming in the finals. The way the ball was coming in in those two games gave him no hope on occasions.

I wasn't criticizing Harris' game, more so criticizing the metric of judging a KPD on disposals.

 

[martinson]

I wasn't criticizing Harris' game, more so criticizing the metric of judging a KPD on disposals.

Yeah I understood that.

Just making my own point. I wasn't criticizing his game either , just that his impact for us last season was overrated

Everyone knows Harris is the best spoiler in the game . He's now started taking contested marks again which completes the package.