Preview Changes Dogs V Lions at Mars 10.4.21 - Rd 4, 2021

[Dazb86]

Is this finally going to be the week we win the hitouts? Martin has had a tough gig in the first 3 rounds.

 

[Dazb86]

I think if we can handle West Coasts talls, we can handle the Lions talls. They’re not of the same standard.

Young or Cordy in for Gardy.
Would love to put Cav at the feet of our talls, too but hard to drop anyone from a 20 goal win.

We really didn't handle West Coasts talls at all.

 

[doggies ftw]

We really didn't handle West Coasts talls at all.

11 shots at goal is not a bad result, yeah they kicked 9 haha but tbf you keep most teams 3 key forward trios to 11 shots at goal and they’re not kicking more than 6. And they’re as hard as it gets as a trio really. Daniher and Hipwood scare me a * load less, if they get 11 shots at goal between them they’ll probably kick 5 max.

 

[X_box_X]

I think if we can handle West Coasts talls, we can handle the Lions talls. They’re not of the same standard.

Young or Cordy in for Gardy.
Would love to put Cav at the feet of our talls, too but hard to drop anyone from a 20 goal win.

Did we actually handle their talls?

 

[X_box_X]

Is this finally going to be the week we win the hitouts? Martin has had a tough gig in the first 3 rounds.

Coming up against three of the four premier ruckmen will do that to ya.

 

[Dogsman16]

We really didn't handle West Coasts talls at all.

Natianui was the real problem, he basically neutralised our midfield because he was able to put it on a platter for his mids.

He's just about the most difficult player in the AFL for our team to contain. As a unit their rucks/kpps the most suited to beating our style in the afl.

Eagles KPF's were super accurate also.

 

[Dannnnnnnnnn]

We defended the Eagles' talls better than we're getting credit for imo.

A large number of their shots were from tough positions thanks to our defenders, but they made us pay with outstanding set shot kicking.

Most of the ones that weren't in tough spots were because we turned the ball over, or our mids lost touch out of clearances due to Nic Nat's wizardry.

At the ground I felt most of the 50/50s were halved and we even managed to turn a few that weren't in our favour around. I wasn't concerned about our defenders losing touch.

 

[Mofra]

This game is made for Macrae and Bont to shine.
Macrae averages over 30 touches per game at Ballarat and Bont won't play two 'down' games in a row. Treloar pinch-hits in the middle when fresh and plays forward of the contest as nobody is stopping him when he gets second possession.

I'm more concerned about Cameron than I am their two talls. Josh Kennedy was ridiculously accurate in round 2, while freshly painted barns hold no fear of Hipwood/Daniher. Big game for Duryea who is probably Plan A, B and C for Cameron.

 

[Dogsman16]

This game is made for Macrae and Bont to shine.
Macrae averages over 30 touches per game at Ballarat and Bont won't play two 'down' games in a row. Treloar pinch-hits in the middle when fresh and plays forward of the contest as nobody is stopping him when he gets second possession.

I'm more concerned about Cameron than I am their two talls. Josh Kennedy was ridiculously accurate in round 2, while freshly painted barns hold no fear of Hipwood/Daniher. Big game for Duryea who is probably Plan A, B and C for Cameron.

Cameron has struggled in a similar fashion to Wallis. That additional tall (Daniher) like moving English forward has meant that both can't often play that small full forward role they have previously occupied.

Cameron looked to get more like his old self last week and obviously has more weapons than Wallis. But its something to keep an eye out in terms of how they play Cameron.

Brisbane are probably going to have to bite the bullet and play Daniher more ruck (If Big O doesn't get up) so that may mean Cameron moreso in his old role.

 

[Roondog]

We really didn't handle West Coasts talls at all.

We “handled” them because our midfield beat/matched theirs and our forwards could actually mark unlike Port Adelaides forwards the other night.

So we were still in the game even with Kennedy and Darling have their day out on the other end of the ground.

 

[Next Waiting]

nice skill to have being able to bang a goal from 50m reliably, particularly when your team plays a hard F50 press.

I see Jong and Wally being similar players for us, potentially handy medium forwards who could pinch hit as mids but have many players ahead of them in the midfield. The conundrum is - being essentially squeezed out of the midfield, are they good enough in a forward role to beat out specialist forwards? It seems the answer is no.

Wallis and Jongy have one distinct difference. Jongy is fast and Wallis is not. I can't see Jongy displacing any of the premium midfielders in their current roles. Scott may be vulnerable to Jongy and Hunter to Lippi. I think it's possible Jongy could be added to the interchange rotations if run with and or tagging players come into vogue. I can see that as a possibility against a team with a dominant ruckman and speedy midfielders who start to gain ascendancy in centre clearances.

 

[Dogsman16]

Jongy wasn't helped by the addition of Treloar. At all.

I've advocated Jongy playing as a defensive forward but my worry with that is that due to his aerial ability he might get in the way of our tall forwards.

If he could apply really good pressure and pinch a goal or two (plus not interfere with the tall setup) there is a spot worthy of his name on there.

 

[JJHunter]

I think dale had surprised everyone playing back for some reason he has been sticking tackles he didn't before taking intercept marks a still kicks goals a master stroke or lucky accident who knows/cares it is only 3 games so far still go dale go dogs, schache to defense absolutely no he should play third tall forward

Schache naughton bont/ resting mid
West Bruce cavarra

And English ?? Where you got him playing.
Cant have the two rucks, schache, Bruce and Naughton Fwd - jsut cant.

 

[weltschmerz]

English dropping to the back line makes sense to me, some more tall marking power.

 

[doggies ftw]

Jongy wasn't helped by the addition of Treloar. At all.

I've advocated Jongy playing as a defensive forward but my worry with that is that due to his aerial ability he might get in the way of our tall forwards.

If he could apply really good pressure and pinch a goal or two (plus not interfere with the tall setup) there is a spot worthy of his name on there.

Yeah I can see Jongy going alright in that role, but personally I’m all in on class in the forward line. I really think that’s the way the games going. I love Jong but the way we play I just don’t think I can watch him breaking down chains with fumbles and poor handballs. Our game needs to be so efficient and effective to work I just don’t see him in it.

Still need defensive pressure of course but imo that’s more about pace to pressure and cover exits rather than being a hard nut laying tackles etc. sounds strange but I don’t care if VDM and McNeil don’t lay a tackle so long as they use their pace to pressure, harrass to create turnovers and cut down space to not allow the oppo to exit easily.

I don’t even want to lock the ball inside 50, I want to pressure the oppo on the way out forcing a turnover where we can then hit up our talls in a mismatch on the quick rebound.

I know Jongs got pace but he doesn’t exactly have forward smarts to know where to run when he doesn’t have the ball and still too much of a liability in our offensive chains IMO. I think we get more from Cav and McNeil or West in those spots

 

[Dogsman16]

And English ?? Where you got him playing.
Cant have the two rucks, schache, Bruce and Naughton Fwd - jsut cant.

If it was JUH instead of Schache I'd be more happy to do it. JUH has aggression and closing speed so he's not a liability in that regard, he just needs to develop the fitness required to do it.

I'd actually be happy to do this and only play 1KPD (Keath) with Wood acting as the 2nd. But then you swing back English/Naughton/JUH depending on how the opposition forward line structures up and whether we are on top in the middle. If we are on top in the middle then we should be looking towards blasting teams of the park (especially with the new rules) so you have at very least 3/4 of Naughton, Bruce, JUH and English forward at all times. The eagles do this with NN, Vardy, Kennedy, Darling and Allen.

However for instance lets say the eagles are getting on top and NN is at very least halving the midfield battle. Then you could put Naughton/JUH as the one who drops back to cover their more athletic forwards.

Compare that to a Carlton/Collingwood or any other team with a 200cm dominant forward. Better off using English to protect the high ball as the interceptor, with Keath always being the one whos body to body with the best key forward.

Coaches box just gotta be smart enough as to who's the player who should drop back.

 

[doggies ftw]

If it was JUH instead of Schache I'd be more happy to do it. JUH has aggression and closing speed so he's not a liability in that regard, he just needs to develop the fitness required to do it.

I'd actually be happy to do this and only play 1KPD (Keath) with Wood acting as the 2nd. But then you swing back English/Naughton/JUH depending on how the opposition forward line structures up and whether we are on top in the middle. If we are on top in the middle then we should be looking towards blasting teams of the park (especially with the new rules) so you have at very least 3/4 of Naughton, Bruce, JUH and English forward at all times. The eagles do this with NN, Vardy, Kennedy, Darling and Allen.

However for instance lets say the eagles are getting on top and NN is at very least halving the midfield battle. Then you could put Naughton/JUH as the one who drops back to cover their more athletic forwards.

Compare that to a Carlton/Collingwood or any other team with a 200cm dominant forward. Better off using English to protect the high ball as the interceptor, with Keath always being the one whos body to body with the best key forward.

Coaches box just gotta be smart enough as to who's the player who should drop back.

It’s an interesting call, and one which really could be very very effective IMO. Keeping our backline full of class rather than trying to hide Gardner/Young on the offence.

Im not usually a big fan of moving players around from set roles as it doesn’t really let them settle, but if there’s two guys in the league who could do this effectively it’s Naughty and Tim. They’re just both such well rounded players. This could be a massive point of difference to our side.

 

[JJHunter]

I'd actually be happy to do this and only play 1KPD (Keath) with Wood acting as the 2nd. But then you swing back English/Naughton/JUH depending on how the opposition forward line structures up and whether we are on top in the middle. If we are on top in the middle then we should be looking towards blasting teams of the park (especially with the new rules) so you have at very least 3/4 of Naughton, Bruce, JUH and English forward at all times. The eagles do this with NN, Vardy, Kennedy, Darling and Allen.

Vardy is out of the side for that very reason that would be too top heavy.
Allen has gone past him.

 

[Dogsman16]

It’s an interesting call, and one which really could be very very effective IMO. Keeping our backline full of class rather than trying to hide Gardner/Young on the offence.

Im not usually a big fan of moving players around from set roles as it doesn’t really let them settle, but if there’s two guys in the league who could do this effectively it’s Naughty and Tim. They’re just both such well rounded players. This could be a massive point of difference to our side.

Bev has such a history of swinging KPP's across the park. Cordy, Keath, Adams (all have pushed forward on occasions), Roughead and Boyd obviously played the dual ruck/forward. Naughty back then forward, even Bruce played 2nd ruck last season.

Bev spins the KPP magnets more than anyone. And what you could do is really use those guys as attacking interceptors when they are chopping out (so basically just reading the play and going for marks) rather than have them play as lockdown KPD which is a completely different role.

 

[doggies ftw]

Vardy is out of the side for that very reason that would be too top heavy.
Allen has gone past him.

He played round one and two. But anyway English is a different beast to Vardy. Vardy sits on the bench then goes to the ruck that’s it. Timmy can play everywhere which is why it wouldn’t make us too top heavy

 

[Dogsman16]

Vardy is out of the side for that very reason that would be too top heavy.
Allen has gone past him.

That is true but it's more so because Vardy doesn't offer much in terms of forward craft, certainly not like English who can push forward and back.

Plus they replaced him with 195cm Brander so they still went super tall.

 

[Boyd oh Boyd]

Bev has such a history of swinging KPP's across the park. Cordy, Keath, Adams (all have pushed forward on occasions), Roughead and Boyd obviously played the dual ruck/forward. Naughty back then forward, even Bruce played 2nd ruck last season.

Bev spins the KPP magnets more than anyone. And what you could do is really use those guys as attacking interceptors when they are chopping out (so basically just reading the play and going for marks) rather than have them play as lockdown KPD which is a completely different role.

The one thing he hasn't done is move a forward or ruck to a defender, besides Young when he was first drafted which was probably always the plan with him. And Trengove I guess, but that's different. Correct me if I'm wrong but I think the only two players that he converted to defenders were Boyd and Dale, I don't think he's ever tried anyone else. Tends to convert defenders into other positions more often.

 

[Dogsman16]

The one thing he hasn't done is move a forward or ruck to a defender, besides Young when he was first drafted which was probably always the plan with him. And Trengove I guess, but that's different. Correct me if I'm wrong but I think the only two players that he converted to defenders were Boyd and Dale, I don't think he's ever tried anyone else. Tends to convert defenders into other positions more often.

Caleb didn't play as a defender. Not sure Williams had played much in defence either. Crozier was a bit of a swingman too.

Just going on track record JUH when he comes into the team will be required to play more than just the full forward position. At very least will be needed to chopout elsewhere on occasion.

Hence why Wally is having his selection issues. Midfield is too deep to give him another position, and as a forward he struggled.

 

[Mofra]

The one thing he hasn't done is move a forward or ruck to a defender, besides Young when he was first drafted which was probably always the plan with him. And Trengove I guess, but that's different. Correct me if I'm wrong but I think the only two players that he converted to defenders were Boyd and Dale, I don't think he's ever tried anyone else. Tends to convert defenders into other positions more often.

Crozier was traded in as a forward and was thrown back when he was just ok in the forward role.
Caleb Daniel is another.
Bailey Williams? Drafted as a mid and has played everywhere, although I'd argue his early career form was best when played behind the ball so it's just a reversion to his best position.

 

[dogwatch]

Crozier was traded in as a forward and was thrown back when he was just ok in the forward role.
Caleb Daniel is another.
Bailey Williams? Drafted as a mid and has played everywhere, although I'd argue his early career form was best when played behind the ball so it's just a reversion to his best position.

That wasn’t my understanding re Crozier. He had done well at HBF for Freo but Lyon tried to make him a forward which wasn’t his go and he didn’t enjoy it. Part of the reason the trade went smoothly.

When he arrived I assumed he’d be playing in defence where he was more comfortable and so it turned out. He has excelled there. I was puzzled Bevo shifted him forward again late last year. No surprise it didn’t work.