Changes for 4th Test vs India.

[Bradesmaen]

It's not about picking bowlers on the basis of an x-factor, it's about picking a balanced attack. You bowl an attack full of dibby dobblers with pretty averages, and their averages don't look so pretty any more once the batsmen are finished with them.

Starc is a bowler who offers genuine pace and genuine swing, which is something the Test team has been sorely lacking in recent years. Pattinson/Starc on a pace-friendly pitch is the best new ball partnership we have, which means a form Starc will always be a contender for the side.

Genuine pace, genuine swing (occasionally) and no wickets. I can swing a cricket ball.. doesn't mean I should play for the Aus team. You still have to be able to take wickets. We have Pattinson who takes wickets, bowls at pace and swings the ball. You only need one of them in a team. We have Bird who is line and length and takes wickets through subtle movement. You can have two of them in a team quite easy.

Hell, look at Steyn and Philander as your examples. Steyn is a strike bowler who averages 22. Pattinson is also around this. Starc averages 32. He averages this in first class cricket because he cannot swing or put the ball in the right places consistently. He doesn't deserve to even have a baggy green. Mind you, there are plenty in the current squad that don't either who have been picked on Xfactor/potential rather than persistent form.

 

[Zgope1]

I do think that Pattinson would be sufficient pace and swing ie. he'd be the strike bowler and Siddle and Bird are both capable of moving it but they've got the added advantage of actually putting it on a good spot enough to take advantage of it.

 

[BACCS]

I'll grant you half a good session in the Perth 1st innings but he was underwhelming in the whole Sydney game, his 5 for in the perth second dig was one of the worst 5 for's i've ever seen but look:

I'll admit he's a talent. He gives brilliant glimpses and I have followed him closely since his first game in Aus colours, but he in no way at all deserves a spot ahead of Bird. He very rarely swings the red ball (i saw him do it once, getting Sachin in Perth) and he can't maintain pressure which IS test cricket.

You clearly aren't watching the current series on TV then. He got Vijay and Dhoni with absolutely beautiful in-swingers that trapped them both dead plumb.

I agree he struggles to maintain pressure; but clearly you haven't seen as much of him as others, so forgive if people struggle to agree with your opinion of him.

He will be in the Ashes squad, and I have little doubt he'll be playing the 1st Ashes Test. I'm sure if Bird was playing in India he'd be copping the same criticism as Starc, as I can't see how he would do much better.

 

[brisbane13]

You clearly aren't watching the current series on TV then. He got Vijay and Dhoni with absolutely beautiful in-swingers that trapped them both dead plumb.

I agree he struggles to maintain pressure; but clearly you haven't seen as much of him as others, so forgive if people struggle to agree with your opinion of him.

He will be in the Ashes squad, and I have little doubt he'll be playing the 1st Ashes Test. I'm sure if Bird was playing in India he'd be copping the same criticism as Starc, as I can't see how he would do much better.

Maxwell was dropped from the 2nd test because he couldnt stop for flow of runs, yet he took 4 wickets.
starch bowls the odd unplayable ball the two he got Vijay & Dhoni where two., but mostly bowls rubbish. in three innings to far those where his two only wicket.

he deserves a spot for the Ashes but to play in the first test would questionable, the english will have a field day facing Starc if he doesn't get it right.

 

[Caesar]

Genuine pace, genuine swing (occasionally) and no wickets.

No wickets is a bit of an exaggeration. Before this series he averaged 2 wickets an innings from his first 7 matches. It's on the low side but it's respectable enough start to Test cricket. McDermott only averaged something like 2.3 wickets an innings over his entire career.

Like I said, I wouldn't go as far as to argue he's one of our best 3 pacemen but you're crazy if you don't think he'd be a real asset to the squad for the Ashes tour. The conditions will suit him to a tee, and if he does end up in the side then he will be a good contributor. Wait and see.

 

[sherb]

Genuine pace, genuine swing (occasionally) and no wickets. I can swing a cricket ball.. doesn't mean I should play for the Aus team. You still have to be able to take wickets. We have Pattinson who takes wickets, bowls at pace and swings the ball. You only need one of them in a team. We have Bird who is line and length and takes wickets through subtle movement. You can have two of them in a team quite easy.

You can swing a cricket ball?

Pack your bags for England son......

 

[Bradesmaen]

You can swing a cricket ball?

Pack your bags for England son......

Coincidentally I'll be in Belgium during the fifth test

 

[The Passenger]

I think after all these years of McGrath and friends, people tend to forget that inconsistency is the tradeoff of having a genuine quick in your side. Bruce Reid is one of the best lefty speedsters we've ever had, and he took 0-2 wickets in almost half his innings.

wah? mcgrath (139/243) and marshall (87/151) took 2 or less wickets in more than half their innings bowled.

 

[Caesar]

Doesn't really change my point.

 

[woofles]

Doesn't really change my point.

It doesn't?

 

[Caesar]

Nope. The point is that bowlers are inconsistent.

 

[Zgope1]

You clearly aren't watching the current series on TV then. He got Vijay and Dhoni with absolutely beautiful in-swingers that trapped them both dead plumb.

I agree he struggles to maintain pressure; but clearly you haven't seen as much of him as others, so forgive if people struggle to agree with your opinion of him.

He will be in the Ashes squad, and I have little doubt he'll be playing the 1st Ashes Test. I'm sure if Bird was playing in India he'd be copping the same criticism as Starc, as I can't see how he would do much better.

I am watching it although i'm happy to admit i missed his 2-70 or so or at least the wickets he took. I noticed he was getting a bit of reverse on the last day too (as was Siddle). He swings it occasionally. Not enough.

I don't think his swing is enough to get him in though. As i said, he can't maintain pressure the same way Bird can and isn't prolific and dangerous enough for long enough. Plus his bowling in tests is around the other bowlers pace any way.

Don't get me wrong i think he's a great talent, but i think in a bowling line up where the spinner can't take wickets and we no longer have a suitable 5th bowler we can't afford to have a bowler that can too easily be dominated. It'll reduce us to two bowlers. Hopefully in the future he can become more prolific and i'm not saying he doesn't deserve to be in the squad i'm just saying Bird should be ahead of him.

I've seen plenty of him. Not every ball he's ever bowled but i have loved watching him develop and i'm glad he's in the caper.

 

[dan warna]

faulkner must be wondering how starc got selected as the left arm paceman with some batting ability ahead of him on first class form.
oh thats right...x factor >< :/
Not the ability to consistently take wickets.

 

[King Elvis]

Clarke said he won't have any say on who fills in for him as Captain??

 

[TassieEagle]

faulkner must be wondering how starc got selected as the left arm paceman with some batting ability ahead of him on first class form.
oh thats right...x factor >< :/
Not the ability to consistently take wickets.

OI!!! Faulks is busy winning a title that matters, Aus can have him in 5 days

 

[Howard Littlejohn]

This is what I had before, but have had a rethink.

Warner
Cowan
Hughes (like many batsmen on this tour, he now has one good innings)
Clarke (if fit)
Khawaja
Smith (cringing as I type that)
Wade (really, what is the point)
Pattinson
Johnson (this silly? ffs)
Siddle
Lyon

Instead Henriques stays in at Johnson's expense, and bats ahead of Wade. I just can't bring myself to trust Johnson, no matter the circumstance.

With Clarke almost certain to be ruled out, who to bring in?
Watson - dismal, dismal form; if he plays he has to bat after Wade and probably Pattinson
Haddin - then who keeps? can either field without the gloves? not a great batsman anyway
Johnson - weaken the batting even further for a fifth, incredibly unreliable, bowler? what's the point of that?
Doherty - again?
Maxwell - bowled even worse than Doherty in the second Test, despite getting the better figures; maybe not as bad as Doherty in the third Test though. That's hardly a recommendation to pick him. And really, two off-spinners is not anideal combination.
Play ten men - very tempting option, so long as eleven can field

Warner
Cowan
Hughes
Smith
Khawaja
Henriques
Wade
Pattinson
Johnson
Siddle
Lyon

I truly despair at that side. Utterly unblanced and unsuitable, but I can't really get anything better in the circumstance.
1/100 could easily become all out 160. God help us if it is 1/5.
Either Maxwell or Doherty could go in for Johnson, but I really don't see anything short of a three day storm stopping a whitewash. Australia needs a miracle, and maybe Johnson will have one of those rare games where he lands the ball on the pitch more ofte than not.

Hopefully Tasmania will trounce Queensland, and some good will come out of the next five days.

edit: The side I expect to be named includes Watson, and at first glance would look more balanced with an extra batsman in there - but his form suggests otherwise.

 

[Gough]

I think if Clarke isn't playing Haddin has to, be it as keeper or batsmen, there is not a lot of experience in this side and Haddin would bring some stability and experience. It's not a long term fix, but for this Test I think his presence would be beneficial to the side, even if it is just as a sounding block for Watson.

 

[western royboy]

faulkner must be wondering how starc got selected as the left arm paceman with some batting ability ahead of him on first class form.
oh thats right...x factor >< :/
Not the ability to consistently take wickets.

I keep coming back to the 180 degree turn that CA have made on developing international players. If you are not identified in under age "pathway" systems as being "elite talent" and then put into a specialist program you are coming from a long way back. In recent times only Lyon has probably jumped up out of nowhere and that's simply because we have beem so horrible in the spin bowling department. Almost everyone else has been "identified" at some point.

 

[The Passenger]

I keep coming back to the 180 degree turn that CA have made on developing international players. If you are not identified in under age "pathway" systems as being "elite talent" and then put into a specialist program you are coming from a long way back. In recent times only Lyon has probably jumped up out of nowhere and that's simply because we have beem so horrible in the spin bowling department. Almost everyone else has been "identified" at some point.

big time. look at what trent copeland had to do to get a run. was never gonna be quick enough, but through sheer weight of wickets deserved a shot. chadd sayers will go through the same thing, but sayers will be lucky to get a look in as the bank of quick bowlers has become very bloated in the last 3 years.

burns played u/19 for qld but did nothing in the underage champs and mostly batted 6 and 7. of all the contenders he's probably the least "identified".

 

[Spitz]

Harris is in the best 3 bowlers in the country, swings it at pace with a front on action. He was Australia's #1 bowler in the WI's when he went down, he bowls a full length, and a fantastic line.

He'll be just about the first picked for the 1st Ashes test imo.

Pattinson, Harris and Siddle will be the lineup for the first test. Bird imo will be the first reserve, and the first rotated in when the decide to do it.

There's no reason to take Johnson AND Starc.

I'd be surprised if Johnson toured.

 

[The Passenger]

if harris plays we've almost certainly gotta take an additional quick bowler? five tests, 3 (maybe 4?) first class games. with one VERY injury prone quick bowler (harris) and an injury prone quick bowler (pattinson)... harris, pattinson, siddle, bird, starc, faulkner as a unit can keep us in the hunt i reckon, but we're gonna struggle too hard for runs to be consistently competitive. we will probably jag a game somewhere.

 

[Spitz]

if harris plays we've almost certainly gotta take an additional quick bowler? five tests, 3 (maybe 4?) first class games. with one VERY injury prone quick bowler (harris) and an injury prone quick bowler (pattinson)... harris, pattinson, siddle, bird, starc, faulkner as a unit can keep us in the hunt i reckon, but we're gonna struggle too hard for runs to be consistently competitive. we will probably jag a game somewhere.

Anderson, Broad and Finn have been bowling pretty ordinary.

Clarke will eat them for breakfast if they keep tossing up the crap they have for the past 12 months.

I wouldn't be surprised to see a few others cash in as well.

We definitely have the inferior batting lineup, but their pace attack should be just as worrying as our batting atm imo.

 

[Spitz]

if harris plays we've almost certainly gotta take an additional quick bowler? five tests, 3 (maybe 4?) first class games. with one VERY injury prone quick bowler (harris) and an injury prone quick bowler (pattinson)... harris, pattinson, siddle, bird, starc, faulkner as a unit can keep us in the hunt i reckon, but we're gonna struggle too hard for runs to be consistently competitive. we will probably jag a game somewhere.

Faulkner or Hilfenhaus.

 

[dajesmac]

4-0 by day 3.

 

[Gough]

Aus bat first. Team is: Cowan Warner Hughes Watson (c) Smith Wade (vc) Maxwell Johnson Pattinson Siddle Lyon