Changes for Round Two

[WE Are Geelong]

Why yes I can. Byrnes (for me) does not have much improvement, if any, in his game. The sensational 13 possessions and an efficiency rating of 77% will not continue.


Considering I actually stated Byrnes played alot better than last year, and should not be dropped... does that mean you also have no football brain?

I am not arguing about one decent game Byrnes has played in, I am arguing about Shannon consistantly getting game after averager performaces, while others should be in before him. He played one good game, does that make up for 18 bad games last year, or another 18 bad games he is likely to play this year?

It is actually quite simple, and I do not see how you cannot get it... Byrnes is an average footballer, and we have more talent in the sidelines. His 'pace' is the only thing keeping him in the side.

The simple fact of the matter is you are trying to drop Byrnes on last seasons' form...thats what you keep referring to...and if you cant see the stupidity (lack of football brain or just brain really) in that when Byrnes' current form is better than last year and its only round 1 then I have to have a laugh at your expense...ok?

His current form warrants his place in the side. Simple.

You talk it up however you like mate but this is just a game between dumb vs dumber...and its going on in your own mind.

 

[WE Are Geelong]

Steve Johnson - 158.106 = 59.8%
Paul Chapman - 174.94 = 64.9%
Mathew Stokes - 44.20 = 68.8

Shannon Byrnes - 19.39 = 32.8%

So we select and/or drop Byrnes on the strength of last season do we and all the seasons prior to this one?

What about current form preseason and first game...relevant even to a tiny degree in your statistical vernacular?...or should we be selecting guys on the strength of how they were travelling 6, 7, 8 months ago?

 

[cats2rise]

The simple fact of the matter is you are trying to drop Byrnes on last seasons' form...thats what you keep referring to...and if you cant see the stupidity (lack of football brain or just brain really) in that when Byrnes' current form is better than last year and its only round 1 then I have to have a laugh at your expense...ok?

His current form warrants his place in the side. Simple.

You talk it up however you like mate but this is just a game between dumb vs dumber...and its going on in your own mind.

No.
The simple fact of the matter is that Byrnes is a very average footballer.

I am not arguing about thursdays game.. I am arguing about his football skills.

And as I actually stated, I do not think he should be dropped, and I also stated that on Thursday night, he played better than he did last year. So you really have no idea what you are arguing for, do you?

I made myself clear from the start. Byrnes played well on thursday, yet he is a very very average footballer who should not be in the team. So whats do laugh at? The only thing I can is that is laughable is you praising Byrnes football skills.

 

[WE Are Geelong]

Byrnes played a reasonable game, he has played many worse games than on Thursday. He lead well and took a couple of good marks out in front for his size.

There's no doubt Prismall is a better player but honestly we have so many of his types in the team that bringing him in for Byrnes may cause more harm than good.

By the way, WAG, just because Byrnes' efficiency rate was at 77% does not mean 77% of his disposals were productive, it just means that his disposal ended up with the possesion of another Geelong player - completely discounting the fact that the receiving player had three Port guys ready to pounce all over him, really, this is typical 'Byrnes' screenplay.

If anyone should be dropped due to poor form it would be Tenace. I can understand them wanting to replace Wojcinski with another speedy line breaker, but that person can NOT be Tenace. His speed is either non-existent or he declines to use it.

Well you tell me what the actual statistic is then? You either know you you dont know? How effective was Byrnes Thursday night? According to you that is? You know if a statistic doesnt suit you just get in there change it...why not hey?

As for Tenace no longer having pace...its completely relative to the way the game has changed over the last few years...its simply alot faster than it was when Brisbane were a force in the AFL and Tenace debuted.

 

[WE Are Geelong]

No.
The simple fact of the matter is that Byrnes is a very average footballer.

I am not arguing about thursdays game.. I am arguing about his football skills.

And as I actually stated, I do not think he should be dropped, and I also stated that on Thursday night, he played better than he did last year. So you really have no idea what you are arguing for, do you?

I made myself clear from the start. Byrnes played well on thursday, yet he is a very very average footballer who should not be in the team. So whats do laugh at? The only thing I can is that is laughable is you praising Byrnes football skills.

His football skills on current form look better to me...and thats the point. I didnt even read the rest of your post because this continues to be the simple point.

You are talking about Byrnes of last year and previous to that. Its round 1 and he looks in his best shape since I can remember and his current stats and preseason support that view. So people like you getting on saying its the same old same old from Byrnes tells me you have no idea about analysing players or footy in general...

You saying he is in better form but the same old player is a nonsensical comment to make. Its just rubbish basically. You are just contradicting yourself.

How many times you want me to repeat that for you before it sinks in? There is a thing where we can agree to disagree...you have an issue with that?

 

[catempire]

So we select and/or drop Byrnes on the strength of last season do we and all the seasons prior to this one?

What about current form preseason and first game...relevant even to a tiny degree in your statistical vernacular?...or should we be selecting guys on the strength of how they were travelling 6, 7, 8 months ago?

WAG, how about looking at the content and context of my posts before shooting your mouth off. Someone asked for the stats and I gave them.

 

[darren forssman]

So we select and/or drop Byrnes on the strength of last season do we and all the seasons prior to this one?

What about current form preseason and first game...relevant even to a tiny degree in your statistical vernacular?...or should we be selecting guys on the strength of how they were travelling 6, 7, 8 months ago?

but is a 32% goal conversion rate good for a small forward, let alone an afl footballer?

this may be a past stat, but i dont think the goal kicking fairies have sprayed him with goal kicking dust and he will now kick at least over 50%.

 

[WE Are Geelong]

WAG, how about looking at the content and context of my posts before shooting your mouth off. Someone asked for the stats and I gave them.

You have made your opinions about Byrnes completely earnest and open in this thread and in previous threads to date.

I would love to know how I took any of that out of context? Feel free to point it out too if you feel hypocrisy is more your strong suit these days than just talking about the footy.

 

[WE Are Geelong]

but is a 32% goal conversion rate good for a small forward, let alone an afl footballer?

this may be a past stat, but i dont think the goal kicking fairies have sprayed him with goal kicking dust and he will now kick at least over 50%.

I never said it was completely irrelevant. People trying to have him dropped though on the basis of last year and years previous etc is just rubbish...

Its round 1 and IMO he is in the best form of his senior career and he played well enough for mine on Thursday. I never said he played great?

My further point then is...why are we even talking about it? What exactly has he done wrong this season? Can you point it out for me? Or arent you really then just basing everything you are saying on bias from the past too?

Its a pretty simple assertion I am making really.

 

[And_ROOS]

You wouldn't think they'd drop Gamble after yesterday's effort. Tenace most likely out for Rooke if he is fit.

For replacement of Hunt if he doesn't pull up, you'd think DJ might be in with a chance.

Otto in for sure for West. I'd like to bring in Pris for Byrnes, with Gamble going up the ground to sit in Byrnes spot on the wing.

You wouldnt think they would, but then again you wouldnt think Byrnes would play in a premiership either

 

[catempire]

You have made your opinions about Byrnes completely earnest and open in this thread and in previous threads to date.

I would love to know how I took any of that out of context? Feel free to point it out too if you feel hypocrisy is more your strong suit these days than just talking about the footy.

I have sided with you in the past when few have. If you are going to start sledging me for no good reason, that will be pretty disappointing from you.

You quoted my post which quoted the stats dispassionately and proceeded to suggest that I wanted Byrnes dropped on the basis of performances of seasons past. That is not the case. As you have acknowledged, I have made my thoughts clear elsewhere. If you care to address the substance of those posts then I'll be happy to respond to you.

 

[cat_fanatic]

Well you tell me what the actual statistic is then? You either know you you dont know? How effective was Byrnes Thursday night? According to you that is? You know if a statistic doesnt suit you just get in there change it...why not hey?

As for Tenace no longer having pace...its completely relative to the way the game has changed over the last few years...its simply alot faster than it was when Brisbane were a force in the AFL and Tenace debuted.

Stats aren't everything mate. You only had to watch the game to realise the pressure Byrnes put on other Geelong players with his "effective disposal", you did watch the game right, because from your defensive tone and outright bitter attitude towards anyone who doesn't necessarily share the same divine opinion as you, i am guessing you just have a thing for byrnes and are willing to throw a number that means nothing at people and talk it up like Byrnes is some transformed superstar???

Yeah, in the space of four years the pace of the game has increased by such a margin that what was once considered "quick" is now just normal... turn it up

 

[darren forssman]

I never said it was completely irrelevant. People trying to have him dropped though on the basis of last year and years previous etc is just rubbish...

Its round 1 and IMO he is in the best form of his senior career and he played well enough for mine on Thursday. I never said he played great?

My further point then is...why are we even talking about it? What exactly has he done wrong this season? Can you point it out for me? Or arent you really then just basing everything you are saying on bias from the past too?

Its a pretty simple assertion I am making really.

the assertion is you are right and everyone else is wrong?

seriously, i have made my points about him in other threads, but have not said anything about how good or bad his game was on thursday.

i just stated that i dont think his kicking for goal will improve and that is one of his primary objectives as a small forward...to kick goals.

 

[haywood jablome]

i just stated that i dont think his kicking for goal will improve and that is one of his primary objectives as a small forward...to kick goals.

Shit.. I thought it was to run 30 meters quickly and be 5'10".

 

[WE Are Geelong]

I have sided with you in the past when few have. If you are going to start sledging me for no good reason, that will be pretty disappointing from you.

You quoted my post which quoted the stats dispassionately and proceeded to suggest that I wanted Byrnes dropped on the basis of performances of seasons past. That is not the case. As you have acknowledged, I have made my thoughts clear elsewhere. If you care to address the substance of those posts then I'll be happy to respond to you.

I appreciate that you have sided with me at times when no one else will...I felt we were mature enough to realise we were just disagreeing now?

You have decided on your own you would rather sledge Byrnes past and present than actually talk relevantly about his football...again I ask why you require me to do anything else but to just point that out to you?

If giving you a taste of what it might feel like to be sledged disturbs you...perhaps thats the intention? I really cant see what moral high ground you are attempting to take here...to me this is all just cut and dried and black and white.

If your next response is similar to the last one...I guess we are done here.

 

[WE Are Geelong]

Stats aren't everything mate. You only had to watch the game to realise the pressure Byrnes put on other Geelong players with his "effective disposal", you did watch the game right, because from your defensive tone and outright bitter attitude towards anyone who doesn't necessarily share the same divine opinion as you, i am guessing you just have a thing for byrnes and are willing to throw a number that means nothing at people and talk it up like Byrnes is some transformed superstar???

Yeah, in the space of four years the pace of the game has increased by such a margin that what was once considered "quick" is now just normal... turn it up

I just find you painful to talk with...hardly bitterness.

Byrnes is a forward. The news flash is he plays near to goals. Modern footy is all about getting numbers back behind the ball...no? Byrnes isnt the only guy kicking to forwards outnumbered. You bringing this point up is just a display of what you lack as basic understanding of the game and nothing else.

I never said Tenace had normal speed? Please point out when I have ever suggested such a thing? You are just saying things to suit yourself again and this is where it all gets very painful. Tenace is still a quick player but his pace advantage that he once had is relative to the increase in speed with which the game is played today...if you dont think the game has quickened up significantly since the time Tenace debuted we can certainly agree to disagree again on that point.

 

[Cattery]

don't let stats or the fact that he (Byrnes) played a relatively decent game get in the way of your hate for him. It is clear that he is a scapegoat, what i dont understand is why you and some other cats fans feel the need to search for something to complain about when your side is doing well and have had a win. can't you just enjoy it and maybe criticise him when he has had a shocker?

Most succinct post in this entire thread mate.

 

[Cattery]

No.
The simple fact of the matter is that Byrnes is a very average footballer.

I am not arguing about thursdays game.. I am arguing about his football skills.

And as I actually stated, I do not think he should be dropped, and I also stated that on Thursday night, he played better than he did last year. So you really have no idea what you are arguing for, do you?

I made myself clear from the start. Byrnes played well on thursday, yet he is a very very average footballer who should not be in the team. So whats do laugh at? The only thing I can is that is laughable is you praising Byrnes football skills.

Seem to be contradicting yourself there mate, he shouldn't be dropped, played better then last year, yet he shouldn't be in the team, has to be one or the other doesn't it?

You keep dragging up the past, well what he did in 07, 04 or 1998 when he was playing junior footy is completely irrelevant surely, wouldn't it be much more productive to stick to what he's done this year, as that's all that really matters, and on that criteria he should be in the side.

His pre-season form was solid and so was his game on Thursday night, so I find it a bit hard to understand your argument to be truthful.

 

[WE Are Geelong]

the assertion is you are right and everyone else is wrong?

seriously, i have made my points about him in other threads, but have not said anything about how good or bad his game was on thursday.

i just stated that i dont think his kicking for goal will improve and that is one of his primary objectives as a small forward...to kick goals.

Why cant I suggest the same thing to you...you feel you are right and I am wrong...what point are you actually trying to make? I do think I am right...just as you think you are right? So?

Do you now want me to define what a forum is?

How in round 1 you can make a standard of measure about someone's goal kicking for better or worse in the current season (round 1 mate just emphasising that) without essentially addressing 99% of that analysis to his past performances is something you are rationalising to absurdity...but it just seems rather obvious to me. If you feel you arent being biased then we certainly disagree.

And what difference does it make which thread it is you said what? You have an established view of Byrnes...and you enjoy reminding us all at regular intervals what that established view is. Does posting in one thread preclude the relevance of all others?

 

[WE Are Geelong]

Most succinct post in this entire thread mate.

Yes I agree...except he was a collingwood supporter so I found it hard to be nice...

 

[Cattery]

Yes I agree...except he was a collingwood supporter so I found it hard to be nice...

Yeah I had to grit my teeth as I wrote it.

Just kiddin' didak04.

 

[darren forssman]

Why cant I suggest the same thing to you...you feel you are right and I am wrong...what point are you actually trying to make? I do think I am right...just as you think you are right? So?

Do you now want me to define what a forum is?

How in round 1 you can make a standard of measure about someone's goal kicking for better or worse in the current season (round 1 mate just emphasising that) without essentially addressing 99% of that analysis to his past performances is something you are rationalising to absurdity...but it just seems rather obvious to me. If you feel you arent being biased then we certainly disagree.

And what difference does it make which thread it is you said what? You have an established view of Byrnes...and you enjoy reminding us all at regular intervals what that established view is. Does posting in one thread preclude the relevance of all others?

i was having a laugh with the "you are right and we are wrong", hence the seriously in the next sentence. i dont honestly care enough about who is right or wrong, it is all opinion.

can you remind me what my established view of byrnes is and what you what me to answer about him?

i actually tend to agree with you about tenace.

 

[cat_fanatic]

I just find you painful to talk with...hardly bitterness.

Byrnes is a forward. The news flash is he plays near to goals. Modern footy is all about getting numbers back behind the ball...no? Byrnes isnt the only guy kicking to forwards outnumbered. You bringing this point up is just a display of what you lack as basic understanding of the game and nothing else.

I never said Tenace had normal speed? Please point out when I have ever suggested such a thing? You are just saying things to suit yourself again and this is where it all gets very painful. Tenace is still a quick player but his pace advantage that he once had is relative to the increase in speed with which the game is played today...if you dont think the game has quickened up significantly since the time Tenace debuted we can certainly agree to disagree again on that point.

Then why is Wojcinski able to break the lines and use his pace to the advantage of the team but Tenace can't?

Tenace is meant to be the quickest over 100m on our list right?

 

[dadonis]

Then why is Wojcinski able to break the lines and use his pace to the advantage of the team but Tenace can't?

Tenace is meant to be the quickest over 100m on our list right?

i'm really interested to know. who is the quickest of tenace, byrnes, varcoe and wokcinksi..??

 

[My5t3r10u5]

Blah blah blah blah blah....

To everyone pushing for Byrnes and/or Tenace to be dropped - suck it in!

If Bomber chooses to select Byrnes and Tenace in the team that's good enough for me. I have far more respect for the opinion of the coach of an AFL premiership team than the opinion of some armchair critics with dubious football pedigrees.

This doesn't for one minute mean that Byrnes is a walk up start each week. I'm sure there is lots of debate around who to include in the team from the likes of Byrnes, Tenace, Prismall, Varcoe and D. Johnson. At the moment Byrnes is getting the nod. In a few weeks it might be someone else. It's certainly not a clear cut decision to leave Byrnes or Tenace out of the team as some of you suggest.