Changes for the 3rd Test

[The_Reaper]

Did you see his dismissals last test- clueless against spin.

I have always said this about Hughes and it is very simple- he is an opener. He opens or he doesn't play. Stop trying to invent him at number 3/4/5/6...these positions you need to play spin well and whilst Phil has improved, he isn't great!

Why is Watto opening?

Why is Watto in the team?

 

[LukeParkerno1]

I would rather just pick a keeper for you know the main job- keeping. Paine is the Australia A keeper and at the least he will be putting a value on his wicket when batting and he is an elite gloveman- sure not Hartley level, but not far behind. Plus he is a good leader and that is why they like him.

Agar needs a rest, he has been given a taste, now he is to go back to the Shield and develop for 12 months. Really he should have just played the 1st test.

I agree on Bird, Starc will be next to useless on this pitch, but it adds to our batting. Does anyone find it stupid we are picking a bowler becuase they can bat! Pick 6 bats, 4 bowlers and a keeper!

 

[LukeParkerno1]

Why is Watto opening?

Why is Watto in the team?

I agree, but he won't be getting dropped. Honestly I would rather in the home series take a punt on Jordan Silk or Nic Maddinson (whoever scores more runs between now and then)

 

[Underdog]

Agar needs a rest, he has been given a taste, now he is to go back to the Shield and develop for 12 months. Really he should have just played the 1st test.

I agree on Bird, Starc will be next to useless on this pitch, but it adds to our batting. Does anyone find it stupid we are picking a bowler becuase they can bat! Pick 6 bats, 4 bowlers and a keeper!

Nope. You pick players who provide you the best overall contribution within reason.

You justify Starc's selection due to his batting despite the fact that Agar was dropped for Lyon who is an inferior bat and not necessarily a better bowler.

 

[Blue Dimension]

Did you see his dismissals last test- clueless against spin.

I have always said this about Hughes and it is very simple- he is an opener. He opens or he doesn't play. Stop trying to invent him at number 3/4/5/6...these positions you need to play spin well and whilst Phil has improved, he isn't great!

If we keep dropping players of his potential for average players in the ilk of Cowan, North, etc. or for stop gap measures i.e. Rogers, this team is never going to go anywhere.

There was a time where Alistair Cook and Ian Bell were virtually walking wickets too. Learned the hard way... paid off.

 

[Underdog]

Why is Watto opening?

Why is Watto in the team?

I'd drop Rogers before Watson.

I can't stand Watson but his infuriating performances are still better than Rogers'.

 

[LukeParkerno1]

Nope. You pick players who provide you the best overall contribution within reason.

You justify Starc's selection due to his batting despite the fact that Agar was dropped for Lyon who is an inferior bat and not necessarily a better bowler.

I am not justifying Starc's selection- I hate it. I would go back to the days where we pick the best 4 bowlers. If we have 1 that can bat well so be it, if not...how about the top 7 get some runs!

Agar has done well, lets not kill the bloke, we need him bowling in 5+ years time, not run off his feet in 12 months.

 

[LukeParkerno1]

If we keep dropping players of his potential for average players in the ilk of Cowan, North, etc. or for stop gap measures i.e. Rogers, this team is never going to go anywhere.

There was a time where Alistair Cook and Ian Bell were virtually walking wickets too. Learned the hard way... paid off.

How much does potential get you? You still have to perform. He hasn't done that. I would rather Hughes play 12 months of Shield/County cricket and THEN pick him. He is still young, and like Bell he can fight his way back. I'd rather gamble on Jordan Silk than Hughes right now.

 

[LukeParkerno1]

I'd drop Rogers before Watson.

I can't stand Watson but his infuriating performances are still better than Rogers'.

Especially the 2nd innings, for a senior player that was embarassing. I would give him 1 more test.

 

[nobbyiscool]

There was a time where Alistair Cook and Ian Bell were virtually walking wickets too. Learned the hard way... paid off.

Great post - that's the most clear and succinct explanation of our own stupidity as I've seen.

Given our complete inability to get Ian Bell out, you'd think we'd have learned something wouldn't you? The best players - the players who presumably have potential, causing you to pick them in the first place - will usually reward you for your faith and patience. Bell's gone from being our bitch to our master.

 

[LukeParkerno1]

Great post - that's the most clear and succinct explanation of our own stupidity as I've seen.

Given our complete inability to get Ian Bell out, you'd think we'd have learned something wouldn't you? The best players - the players who presumably have potential, causing you to pick them in the first place - will usually reward you for your faith and patience. Bell's gone from being our bitch to our master.

Yes but a bit of it is due to not having a leggie. If we had a leggie he wouldn't be averaging nearly as much. I know your point, but somewhere along the line Hughes needs to make runs. He has had a series against a weak SL attack, a series on roads in India, and 2 tests in England (one on a fairly good pitch)...and has made 1 hundred during that time. Somewhere we have to question whether he is that good or whether he is destined to average 30. If it is the latter, lets find the replacements as 30 average players won't help us.

 

[Torz]

Yes but a bit of it is due to not having a leggie. If we had a leggie he wouldn't be averaging nearly as much. I know your point, but somewhere along the line Hughes needs to make runs. He has had a series against a weak SL attack, a series on roads in India, and 2 tests in England (one on a fairly good pitch)...and has made 1 hundred during that time. Somewhere we have to question whether he is that good or whether he is destined to average 30. If it is the latter, lets find the replacements as 30 average players won't help us.

Roads in India? You needed to wear goggles for the amount of dust that spat up at you.

 

[LukeParkerno1]

Roads in India? You needed to wear goggles for the amount of dust that spat up at you.

They are still pitches where Dhoni made 200+...not to mention other batsmen as well, Clarke made a 100 over there. They were pretty flat, yes they had some turn but nothing too bad except for 1 of the tests.

 

[what did you say]

Why is Watto opening?

Why is Watto in the team?

to get gen y watching? ..........
i did laugh they showed warner batting in the nets on the news an showed him getting bowled by a 16 year old kid quicker he is back in the team the better, so he never get's picked again...
if hughes gets dropped surely there is no coming back from that? not many players get dropped so many times an come back..

 

[Slax]

I'd drop Rogers before Watson.

I can't stand Watson but his infuriating performances are still better than Rogers'.

Get rid of both I say. Watson is massively overrated and will again fail to make a big score despite getting a start, Rogers is passed his best and is not a long term prospect which is what we need to look for. I'd also like to see the back of Khawaja too, he has a history in both first class cricket and Tests of making starts and not going on with it.

Hughes has a massive technical flaw which will be shown up time and again, although to be fair he did handle Swann well in the 1st Test, so it could just be a mental thing about settling in to spin as it seems he gets out quickly. We need though to look for 10 year players not stop gaps and trust some younger players with talent, throw them in at the deep end and you'll quickly work out if they can sink or swim, some may revel in the challenge.

 

[nobbyiscool]

if hughes gets dropped surely there is no coming back from that? not many players get dropped so many times an come back..

It's an interesting question... you can go back in history and some of our greats - Hayden, Ponting, Langer and Martyn were all dropped once or twice earlier in their careers before becoming superstars.

Yes, Hughes has already been dropped 3 times now, but it's a different era - our selectors don't seem to understand or care about forward planning, so the selections for each test series are almost distinct from each other. You couldn't rule him out playing for Australia again this summer.

 

[Blue Dimension]

How much does potential get you? You still have to perform. He hasn't done that. I would rather Hughes play 12 months of Shield/County cricket and THEN pick him. He is still young, and like Bell he can fight his way back. I'd rather gamble on Jordan Silk than Hughes right now.

Of course he has to perform. But tell me, in how many positions has Hughes batted in this tour? He's opened, come in at 3, 4, 5 AND 6. He virtually saved our backsides in the first test along with Agar and now we're going to drop him. I didn't see anyone else grind out a hard earned 80 in the first test.

We're destroying our most talented bat in the country. We barely have any good players coming through and we're destroying what we do have.

Oh and btw, Hughes has the highest average of any Australian batsman on tour.

And just a sidenote = Joe root had 3 failures in a row to start the series as well. Didn't see England drop him did we?

 

[Torz]

Hughes doesn't need more time in the shield. He's plundered those attacks for years, you know what you're going to get. Have him open and give him a decent run.

 

[LukeParkerno1]

Of course he has to perform. But tell me, in how many positions has Hughes batted in this tour? He's opened, come in at 3, 4, 5 AND 6. He virtually saved our backsides in the first test along with Agar and now we're going to drop him. I didn't see anyone else grind out a hard earned 80 in the first test.

We're destroying our most talented bat in the country. We barely have any good players coming through and we're destroying what we do have.

Oh and btw, Hughes has the highest average of any Australian batsman on tour.

And just a sidenote = Joe root had 3 failures in a row to start the series as well. Didn't see England drop him did we?

Does it matter- Joe Root has batted every position from 1 to 6 and averages well in every position at the top level. I am yet to see Hughes do the same thing unfortunately. He is not our most talented bat, he as shown in test level will be a guy who averages 40 at best, technically he is not good enough against spin and you would question his abaility against top class quick bowling as well. Our most talented bats happen to be Maddinson, Joe Burns and Jordan Silk

 

[bungwahl]

Hughes doesn't need more time in the shield. He's plundered those attacks for years, you know what you're going to get. Have him open and give him a decent run.

Exactly. He needs to be given stability - 10 Tests, one batting position.

 

[LukeParkerno1]

Exactly. He needs to be given stability - 10 Tests, one batting position.

He had how many tests as an opener. That is stability. He had 6 tests as a number 3 (failed). They have tried everything. In the end we probably need to realise he is in fact average. Now I am not saying the others are much better, but the time has come to work out our top 6.

 

[Skeppersap]

Of course he has to perform. But tell me, in how many positions has Hughes batted in this tour? He's opened, come in at 3, 4, 5 AND 6. He virtually saved our backsides in the first test along with Agar and now we're going to drop him. I didn't see anyone else grind out a hard earned 80 in the first test.

We're destroying our most talented bat in the country. We barely have any good players coming through and we're destroying what we do have.

Oh and btw, Hughes has the highest average of any Australian batsman on tour.

And just a sidenote = Joe root had 3 failures in a row to start the series as well. Didn't see England drop him did we?

Exactly! Hughes isnt my favourite batsman, but him and Khawaja have been destroyed by current and recent captains, coaches, selectors and administrators. The treatment of these 2 young guys has been disgraceful!

We keep playing bloody Watson, who has done nothing and has scored one century in how many tests?

Now would have been the perfect time to:

• Drop Watson for good. Good Riddence!
• Put Hughes at opener in his place. Leave him there till the end of the Ashes in Australia. Let him prove himself at opener, no other position!
• Leave Khawaja at 3, also till the end of the Ashes in Australia. He deserves it, and is the future of the batting line up.
• Stop Clarke moving around the order to suit himself. Put him at 4 and be done with it. I am disappointed the Australian captain wont step up and take the most difficult batting position in the line-up, 3, but thats what we have.

We are going to get flogged in England, probably 4-0 or 5-0. Accept it and at least plan for the future a bit.

Rodgers, Watson, Haddin, Cowan are NOT the future!

 

[bungwahl]

He had how many tests as an opener. That is stability. He had 6 tests as a number 3 (failed). They have tried everything. In the end we probably need to realise he is in fact average. Now I am not saying the others are much better, but the time has come to work out our top 6.

Do you hate Phil Hughes?

Did he really fail as our #3? Since his return, in the #3 position: 86, 16, 10, 87, 34, 6, 19, 0, 69, 45 = 372 @ 37.2 - keeping in mind those numbers include a tour of India where our batting line up failed miserably. It's not brilliant, but it's far from terrible.

Hughes has changed batting position 7 times since the start of the Indian tour. That's appalling! How is he ever going to feel settled if he doesn't even know where he's batting?

 

[swansfan51]

Selected:

Shane Watson - Test average 24.53 over the past 2 years
Chris Rogers - Test average 18.00
Usman Khawaja - Test average 30.09
Steve Smith - Test average 29.00
Michael Clarke - actually competent. Test average over 50.
David Warner - Test average 39.46
Brad Haddin - Test average 23.28 over the past 2 years

2 batsmen with an average above 31.

Omitted:

Matthew Wade - Test average 34.61
Ashton Agar - Test average 32.50
Ed Cowan - Test average 31.28

 

[LukeParkerno1]

Do you hate Phil Hughes?

Did he really fail as our #3? Since his return, in the #3 position: 86, 16, 10, 87, 34, 6, 19, 0, 69, 45 = 372 @ 37.2 - keeping in mind those numbers include a tour of India where our batting line up failed miserably. It's not brilliant, but it's far from terrible.

Hughes has changed batting position 7 times since the start of the Indian tour. That's appalling! How is he ever going to feel settled if he doesn't even know where he's batting?

Don't hate him, but I don't think he is the answer. Average of mid 30's is hardly great, it is average, and that is what you will get from him..average. I would rather have Burns, Silk, etc, than have Hughes in the side. Hughes can't play spin, in fact he has no idea how to play spin.

Joe Root has batted every position in the England order- doesn't seem to effect him in terms of performances. That is the issue- Joe Root has a better technique.