Changes for the 3rd Test

[nickrebellious]

Henriques in for Watson? Still provides a bowling option, won't be predictable when batting and still fairly young.

 

[Howard Littlejohn]

I don't think Aus should be bothered with winning the tour match. One target: bat for three satraight days (or however long they have if Sussex win the toss and bat).
Two innings lasting a combined 144 overs on a fairly benign deck and without unreasonable amounts of swing is pathetic, particuarly when numbers 8-11 hang around. Yes, the ball turned and jumped for Swann, but not enough to count for two captiulations.

 

[bungwahl]

Henriques in for Watson? Still provides a bowling option, won't be predictable when batting and still fairly young.

Can't be any worse?

 

[bluespooner]

Inverarity and the selectors need to take a lot of the blame for this fiasco. There is just way too many blokes holding down spots in the top 6 of the order with significant technical flaws. There is also a preponderance of left-handers which is playing into the hands of England, and in particular Swann. The following have absolutely no idea on how to play Swann; Hughes, Cowan, Rogers and Khawaja struggles.

Just by being a right hand batsman reduces the Swann threat immensely, even more so if it is a right hand batsman prepared to use his feet. For mine, I would fly in Klinger to open with Rogers and bring Joe Burns into the Australian top order. Further, if I were Lehman I would be making enquiries about the availability of Australia's two potential match winners in Patrick Cummins and Fawad Ahmed.

It is not concievable that you can go on selecting sides that you know are a mile off the pace, by continuing to show faith in Watson, Hughes, Cowan, Haddin and Smith.

 

[nickrebellious]

Can't be any worse?

Showed a bit in his first test in India. 68 and 81* then failed to start in 4 innings. Something to persist with.

 

[bungwahl]

Inverarity and the selectors need to take a lot of the blame for this fiasco. There is just way too many blokes holding down spots in the top 6 of the order with significant technical flaws. There is also a preponderance of left-handers which is playing into the hands of England, and in particular Swann. The following have absolutely no idea on how to play Swann; Hughes, Cowan, Rogers and Khawaja struggles.

Just by being a right hand batsman reduces the Swann threat immensely, even more so if it is a right hand batsman prepared to use his feet. For mine, I would fly in Klinger to open with Rogers and bring Joe Burns into the Australian top order. Further, if I were Lehman I would be making enquiries about the availability of Australia's two potential match winners in Patrick Cummins and Fawad Ahmed.

It is not concievable that you can go on selecting sides that you know are a mile off the pace, by continuing to show faith in Watson, Hughes, Cowan, Haddin and Smith.

I'm not sure how a youngster who is averaging 30 in Div 2 of the Championship is going to remedy our batting woes..

 

[bluespooner]

I'm not sure how a youngster who is averaging 30 in Div 2 of the Championship is going to remedy our batting woes..

A number of Australia's specialist batsman would be averaging less than 20 in this test series. Watson top scored in the first innings with a score of 30.

 

[bungwahl]

A number of Australia's specialist batsman would be averaging less than 20 in this test series. Watson top scored in the first innings with a score of 30.

And our best option is to stop panicking with changing the line up every game. None of these youngsters will ever cement their position in the side until we offer them some stability.

It took Steve Waugh 42 innings' to make a Test hundred. He finished with 32 of them and an average of 51.

 

[Taylor]

I'd take all the left leg pads out of Shane Watson's bag and send him out without one on. That should stop him planting the foot as soon as the ball leaves the bowler's hand and trying to play around it.

I don't think anyone has done anything to warrant a call up and the only players I want to see come into the side, Bird and Starc, aren't really going to improve the side.

 

[Super Hans]

As crazy as it might sound, I'd probably go with no changes.

 

[Tulip]

Cowan - know he had a shit first test, but please just play him where he made his name and tell him to just get the shine off the ball.
Rogers - Same deal for Chris, no wayward shots.
Khawaja - Solid second innings, likes to throw his wicket away but will improve with experience.
Clarke - Needs to build on that 50.
Smith - In for his bowling, gets one more go at it.
Hughes - Don't like him, but who is better? Play him at 6 and see if he can bat with the ball a little older.
Haddin - Has been fine, really. If he does collapse, Wade is always an option.
Agar - Tempted to drop him for Lyon, but I don't see much between them. Ashton is younger, a far better bat (which we do need) and will benefit from the experience.
Siddle - Best bowler of the series. Best in the team. Should be captain.
Harris - Do as you did last test. Don't fall over!!
Bird - Loathe to drop Patto, but he needs a spell to get his head right. Just bowling nothing. Bird is a very solid bowler.

 

[Tulip]

Warner needs to come back in. Sure he is out of form, but at least if things are going pear-shaped, he can go madd and punch each English player in the head, particularly Root.

I know you're joking, but the last thing we need is one more batsman who can't concentrate and swings at everything.

 

[Super Hans]

Why do people keep moving Hughes around! Give him a position, and leave him there. Moving him from three, four, six, opening every second test is not good for him!

If we keep doing this we are going to wreck the confidence of a bloke who has the talent (and a load of work ethic) to be our next Michael Clarke.

 

[Outshined]

No changes to the top 6. We can't do much better, and they should be hurting from the humiliation they've received over the past two days. Not that I think it'll make much of a difference, but maybe we'll see someone like Khawaja take his chance.

For the bowlers, maybe Pattinson out, but then again I'd back him in to come good. Sounds a bit Mitchell Johnson like, but Patto is capable of tearing the Poms apart when on song, and will be better for the experience in bowling at different English grounds. If he does go out, Bird is the obvious replacement. Possibly Agar for Lyon too, although I can't see either really troubling the English batsmen.

As much as it pains me, this series is now about development and salvaging something out of the tour. Forget reclaiming the Ashes, reclaim some god damn pride.

 

[Taylor]

Cowan and Rodgers opening? That would be a sight. 0/30 25 overs in.

 

[Gee Dub]

Really don't understand the calls for Watson to be dropped. He's our second highest run scorer for the series and he is a handy bowler. If we drop him we may as well drop the rest of the team other than Siddle and Harris because everyone else has preformed just as bad, if not worse.

Watson- Scores of 13, 46, 30, 20 for an average of 27.25. Yes he is prone to lbw and loves a review but he's our best performing opener and the other guys in the squad (Warner and Cowan) aren't exactly knocking the door down for selection.
Rogers- 16, 52, 15, 6 for an average of 22.25. He can soak up deliveries and is a reasonable foil for Watson, given that he doesn't try to bully the opposition bowlers ala Warner. I have faith in him although if we don't win this test then he comes out since he probably won't be our opener for the home series and onwards.
Khawaja- 14, 54 for an average of 34. He looked ok and didn't do anything stupid. He is our best option at 3 so he stays.
Hughes- 81*, 0, 1, 1 for an average of 27.6. He was great in the first innings of the series but since then has done nothing. That dismissal where he got caught behind while flashing at a wide one was horrible. I'd rather move Smith to 4 and move Hughes back to 6 where he did well in the first test. I wouldn't be against dropping Rogers and letting Hughes open and Wade bat as a specialist bat at 6 but I'd give Rogers another chance.
Clarke-0, 23, 2, 51 for an average of 19. Stupid dismissal last night but had copped a couple of really good balls early on in his other innings'. Needs to lift though. Keep him at 5 because thats where he bats best.
Smith- 53, 17, 2, 1 for an average of 18.25. Good first knock but done little since. Copped a good ball early from Swann in the first. I get the feeling that he will be a good batsman for Australia but when he comes in at 4-60 he crumbles because he feels like he can't play his shots. Put him at 4 where he has been successful for NSW and see how he goes there. Might play with a bit less pressure because he won't be coming in trying to save the innings.
Haddin- 1, 71, 7, 7 for an average of 21.5. Line ball between him and Wade. He'll stay in due to his 71 in the first test but if Wade makes runs in the tour match then Haddin is on thin ice.

My team for the 3rd would be:
Watson
Rogers
Khawaja
Smith
Clarke
Hughes
Haddin
Agar
Siddle
Harris
Bird

 

[DrEvil]

Reverse batting order. On a more serious note Agar out, he is injured.

 

[Howard Littlejohn]

Cowan and Rodgers opening? That would be a sight. 0/30 25 overs in.

0/30 after 25 overs is decent. The problem is when it becomes 4/50 after 30.

 

[eddiesmith]

Its interesting looking at the scores, whilst Watson and Rogers haven't done a great job, they have still both performed better than the entire middle order except Clarke who is in between them

Another interesting stat is in all 5 innings on this tour they have opened together, Watson has been the first one out, Rogers doing a good job sticking around but seems to fall not long after his opening partner, that may be a mental issue about trying to then take on the more aggressive role as the set batsman

Sure the middle orders job would be easier coming in at 1/200 but they cant expect that every game and if they cant cope then its harsh to just blame the openers

 

[Howard Littlejohn]

Its interesting looking at the scores, whilst Watson and Rogers haven't done a great job, they have still both performed better than the entire middle order except Clarke who is in between them

That was often the case with the Warner/Cowan pairing as well.

 

[FRUMPY]

Watson
Rogers
Kawaja
Clarke
Wade
Smith
Haddin (WK)
Siddle
Patto
Harris
Lyon

Would bring Wade in to replace Hughes. Move clarke up one spot. Needs to step up as captain and right the ship and stop these top order collapses. I would have had Wade as no.1 keeper but obviously isnt going to happen. However with him fielding he can bowl some of his 140kmh deliveries like he did in hobart. Not the worst part time option to be honest.

Patto is lucky to survive and could handle bird in for him, but id give him one more test. Just hasnt bowled well at all though has he?

Lyon to come in for the kid. Kid is apparently sore and no point buring him out at 19 yrs of age. Give Lyon a go and tell him Ahmed got 8 wickets in Aus A tour game so needs to pull his finger out to kepp his spot.

Leave warner in SA. hasnt made a run for about 8 months and doesnt deserve a recall.

 

[The Passenger]

i would probably keep the batting the same because i think it's the strongest we have () but i would move clarke to 4 and hughes to 5.

we need to get to 100 no less than 2 down this test.

 

[BlindDeafRef]

1. Pattinson
2. Agar
3. Harris
4. Siddle
5. Clarke
6. Smith
7. Khawaja
8. Hughes
9. Watson-(no reviews left by then)
10. Rogers
11. Haddin

 

[Showbags]

You just can't keep chopping and changing.

I have been watching cricket for 40 years. I remember the 80's well, if you think this is bad, then you don't know a thing about bad cricket sides. Try going 20 test matchs WITHOUT A WIN and going for 1.5 years without a test win. THis is nothing on those days.

I will sit here and tell anyone who'll listen that Hughes will score 10 000 runs for Australia. Smith and Kwajawa will play 100 tests each. They need to be given confidence of selection. All 3 have character in spades. Pick them no matter what and tell them as much. They will all blossom in time and im confident of that.

I'd be tempted to drop Watson all together and never pick him again on the basis that his presence is just too much of a disruption. Needless to say, it has almost reached that point. Alas, maybe this time next year Watson would have played his last game across all formats. However, Watson at least deserves to have control of his destiny. Give him until January.

Bowlers are looking good. This Ahmed lad looks ok and at the very least we know he'll give it his all and not be overwhelmed.

In life you need to keep plugging away, the break will come, and we need to understand that. Most of all, when the good times return, you should enjoy them instead of bemoaning how boring cricket is when Australia wins everything as was said a few years ago.

We'll be back. Roll on the 3rd test.

Agree with this.

TBH it isn't the younger blokes like Hughes, Smith, Warner, Wade, Khawaja, Pattinson, Starc, Agar etc that we should be unhappy with for the current predicament. Most of them are performing to the sort of level that you would expect of Test match rookies or young players trying to establish themselves in the game. The batsmen just listed are averaging about the norm for players of their age and experience and the bowlers for the most part are actually exceeding the norm for their ages.

http://thegameisafoot.weebly.com/1/post/2012/02/cricket-batting-averages-by-age.html

Here is an interesting piece done on batting averages by age. Hughes, Smith, Warner (who I read somewhere actually has a better record than Hayden and Langer at the same stage of their careers), Wade, Khawaja are all following the same sort of trend.

It's the 29+ players that are meant to be in their primes as Test Cricketers but are not performing that is the major issue here. Watson, Haddin, Cowan, Voges, Rogers, Quiney, Shaun Marsh, George Bailey, Ferguson, Cosgrove (he's about the only one that I think deserves a callup though). These are the names that were meant to take over from the Langers, Hayden, Pontings, Martyns of the previous generation but have just never stood up and matured during their primes.

Instead we have been forced to throw a very young group into the Test arena before they are ready (if they ever do become ready) mixed with a plethora of average players who have never improved during their peaks. Whereas England have the relative luxury of bedding in talented batsmen like Joe Root or Jonny Bairstow without a huge amount of hassle because the senior players like Cook, Trott, Pietersen, Bell, Prior, Anderson and Swann are performing and ensuring their is a lot less pressure on the youngsters coming into the team.

Though having said all this I do think the grassroots coaching and development structure needs to be looked at and overhauled. There is certainly a decline in technique of younger batsmen.

 

[Wicked Lester]

"This Ahmed lad looks ok".

Hmm. This Ahmed lad is 31 with a grand total of 11 first class matches to his name. He may turn out to be very good but he's no lad.

I agree with others that constant chopping and changing is not the go. We need to settle on a strategy and choose from a core group who we believe can be long term players for Australia or can provide a bedrock on which the younger players can learn.

Personally, I'd like to see blokes like Silk, Lynn and Maddinson given opportunites and soon. They may well fail initially but they'll learn plenty and, if they return to shield ranks, they'll know where and how they must improve. I'd rather invest half a dozen tests in a 21/22 year old than see another 30 year old test debutant rewarded for 10 years of solid first class cricket in which they've finally managed to edge their first class average close to 40. At least youth gives the punters something to be enthused about.

I no longer see any of Cowan, Warner or Hughes as long term prospects. Warner has the best record of the three, but he's always going to be the Mitchell Johnson of batting. Every 6 to 8 tests he'll almost singlehandedly win you a match. In between we'll get very little.

The question is, which seasoned pro's should be retained to show youth the way.

Clarke is one of the world's best batsmen, no question about that. I'm just not sure he's the sort who teammates will follow out of the trenches. He doesn't come across as a selfless leader. If he was, he'd be at three or four. Personally, I think there's so much bad blood in the team at present and he appears to be have been a common denominator in a number of dust ups with present and former players. Personally, I think its time he focussed on his batting. A good captain does a lot more than tell his players where to stand on field.

I'd retain Watson for now, but only just. If nothing else he's proved he is one of our few players of genuine international standard. Moreover, for all the accusations of selfishness, he's at least willing to front up to the new ball. He has a particular technical flaw at present. If he can't sort it out, its curtains but I'd give him til the end of the series.

I'd bring in either Bailey or Paine as captain. Admittedly, neither are exactly young - 30 and 28 respectively - but both are natural and selfless leaders. We need that right now, particularly the selfless part.

This stanza of the Ashes is lost. Time to build for the future.

My ideal third test team (knowing full well it won't happen because it would be too big an admission that squad selection was a complete balls up) and one which is really all about preparing for a longer term future:

Watson
Silk
Clarke (you're batting at 3 pup and that's that - better you average 40 at three than 60 at five)
Bailey (vice captain)
Khawaja (assure him he's got an extended run at it - 6+ tests)
Lynn
Paine (captain)
Agar
Siddle
Pattinson
Starc or Harris (the latter at 33 does not represent a long term solution but is a fine example for others of how hard you have to work)

No room for Haddin or Rogers. Good warriors both of them but too old to be anything other than stopgap measures selected in a vain attempt at an Ashes heist. We've failed on that front. Time to move on.

Maddinson is next cab off the rank.