Changes for the 3rd Test

[BarryMorgan]

Bailey, Wade, Lyon, Warner in, Watson, Haddin, Rogers, Agar out.

 

[Julius Seizure]

No one is banging the door down to get in. Siddle and Clarke are the only sure picks, and Harris if fit. Watson is infuriating but does make starts and provide a valuable bowling option. Wade shouldn't have been dropped for Haddin in the first place. Patto should be stuck with, he's too good on song to leave out.

Hoping they keep Hughes in. Honestly have no idea what the selectors will do here.

This would be my team: Watson, Rogers, Hughes, Warner, Clarke, Smith, Wade, Agar, pattinson, siddle, Harris.

Imagine if a batsmen gets the can it'll be Rogers or Hughes though. If they decide to drop Watson I'd honestly just replace him with bird or cummins and try to blast England out.

 

[BG32]

Cowan and Rodgers opening? That would be a sight. 0/30 25 overs in.

I'd give my left nut and consider giving my right as well for the score line to read that

 

[Doodlesweaver]

"This Ahmed lad looks ok".

Hmm. This Ahmed lad is 31 with a grand total of 11 first class matches to his name. He may turn out to be very good but he's no lad.

I agree with others that constant chopping and changing is not the go. We need to settle on a strategy and choose from a core group who we believe can be long term players for Australia or can provide a bedrock on which the younger players can learn.

Personally, I'd like to see blokes like Silk, Lynn and Maddinson given opportunites and soon. They may well fail initially but they'll learn plenty and, if they return to shield ranks, they'll know where and how they must improve. I'd rather invest half a dozen tests in a 21/22 year old than see another 30 year old test debutant rewarded for 10 years of solid first class cricket in which they've finally managed to edge their first class average close to 40. At least youth gives the punters something to be enthused about.

I no longer see any of Cowan, Warner or Hughes as long term prospects. Warner has the best record of the three, but he's always going to be the Mitchell Johnson of batting. Every 6 to 8 tests he'll almost singlehandedly win you a match. In between we'll get very little.

The question is, which seasoned pro's should be retained to show youth the way.

Clarke is one of the world's best batsmen, no question about that. I'm just not sure he's the sort who teammates will follow out of the trenches. He doesn't come across as a selfless leader. If he was, he'd be at three or four. Personally, I think there's so much bad blood in the team at present and he appears to be have been a common denominator in a number of dust ups with present and former players. Personally, I think its time he focussed on his batting. A good captain does a lot more than tell his players where to stand on field.

I'd retain Watson for now, but only just. If nothing else he's proved he is one of our few players of genuine international standard. Moreover, for all the accusations of selfishness, he's at least willing to front up to the new ball. He has a particular technical flaw at present. If he can't sort it out, its curtains but I'd give him til the end of the series.

I'd bring in either Bailey or Paine as captain. Admittedly, neither are exactly young - 30 and 28 respectively - but both are natural and selfless leaders. We need that right now, particularly the selfless part.

This stanza of the Ashes is lost. Time to build for the future.

My ideal third test team (knowing full well it won't happen because it would be too big an admission that squad selection was a complete balls up) and one which is really all about preparing for a longer term future:

Watson
Silk
Clarke (you're batting at 3 pup and that's that - better you average 40 at three than 60 at five)
Bailey (vice captain)
Khawaja (assure him he's got an extended run at it - 6+ tests)
Lynn
Paine (captain)
Agar
Siddle
Pattinson
Starc or Harris (the latter at 33 does not represent a long term solution but is a fine example for others of how hard you have to work)

No room for Haddin or Rogers. Good warriors both of them but too old to be anything other than stopgap measures selected in a vain attempt at an Ashes heist. We've failed on that front. Time to move on.

Maddinson is next cab off the rank.

Interesting post. I'd put Watson to 7. It's too disheartening for the other players as they know what is comimg.wher hr opens. I don't agree with you about Hughes. I'd give him another run. Do about Haddin and Cowan, Haddin has lost it behind the stumps and Cowan is just way too ordinary at his age to be continued with.

I have to say though Maddinson shouldn't be near the team till he learns not to just hit out at everything. That's one of the biggest problems in the team already, why encourage it?

 

[BG32]

You guys also realise patto has been one of our better "batsman"

 

[Total_Juddshanks]

Agree with weaponsfree and showbags, it's madness to talk about dropping Agar and Khawaja.

Look, we're going to lose the ashes in a canter, that's pretty obvious. Now is Australia going to be better or worse off in the long term if those guys get a solid series of experience under their belts?

For Khawaja, I can't think of any one thing which is better for the future of Australian cricket than giving him six innings of batting facing Swann in his elemant, is just gold experience.

For different reasons, it's also great for Agar.

If fresh blood is wanted, drop Watson, Haddin, Rogers, the guys who have no real future in cricket.

My 11, which I'd like to see for every test this series.

Hughes
Warner
Khawaja
Clarke
Watson
Smith
Wade
Agar
Siddle
Harris
Pattinson

That's a batting heavy lineup, which ye gods we need. Watson holds a middle order spot by a bees dick for quick runs and his bowling, could also drop him entirely, bump everyone up one spot and tack starc on the end.

 

[Tulip]

Cowan and Rodgers opening? That would be a sight. 0/30 25 overs in.

Almost nothing could make me more pleased.

 

[bird_man]

Bailey, Wade, Lyon, Warner in, Watson, Haddin, Rogers, Agar out.

I like Bailey, but why should we promote someone with no domestic form in 4 day cricket, it's not sending the right message.

I also really like Agar, but his bowling is a long way off test standard. That was a spin friendly wicket and he didn't look dangerous at all. It's great that he's had a taste and hopefully it will do him good in the long run but for now I'd bring Lyon back who IMO was probably harshly dealt with anyway.

For me I'd love to see Wade back in the side, even if they decide to leave Haddin in. Wade has played some fantastic innings' for us in just a hand full of matches, and if any front line batsman had shown what he has in a limited amount of time, their would be no way they would be dropped. A better performed batsman than Cowan, Watson, Rogers, Hughes, Smith and Khawaja.

I'd give Watson and Rogers the series to prove themselves. They have both got off to good starts and I'm hoping a big partnership is just around the corner.

Watson
Rogers
Khawaja
Clarke
Hughes
Wade
Haddin
Pattinson
Siddle
Harris
Lyon/Bird (depending on the pitch)

 

[Cheshire Cat]

Need to roll the dice and bring in Warner, who is capable of taking an attack apart and scoring quickly. Rogers hasn't demonstrated that and as much as I want him to succeed (and as much I dislike Warner and his idiotic brother) we obviously need to win this third test outright and need proactive (albeit if boneheaded) attacking batsmen.

Watson, Hughes stay on but both need to make a serious contribution in the 3rd test. Khawaja stays.

If it wasnt for Smith's 3-for he'd be on shaky ground but again, who else?

Haddin stays but if we lose this test he should make way for Wade.

I'd like to see Agar stay in purely for his batting (unlucky in both dismissals at Lords) but cant justify his selection on his bowling. May make way for Lyon.

Harris and Siddle are our best bowlers

Bird for Pattinson perhaps? But happy to leave Pattinson in, had a bad test a Lords but hopefully redeems himself.

 

[Tulip]

It's the 29+ players that are meant to be in their primes as Test Cricketers but are not performing that is the major issue here. Watson, Haddin, Cowan, Voges, Rogers, Quiney, Shaun Marsh, George Bailey, Ferguson, Cosgrove (he's about the only one that I think deserves a callup though). These are the names that were meant to take over from the Langers, Hayden, Pontings, Martyns of the previous generation but have just never stood up and matured during their primes.

Cricket Australia didn't rotate or introduce any youth aside from Clarke before about 2007, and then they went with an 'only youth' policy and played the generation younger than the names above.

If any of them played, they got a handful of chances.

How the eff are these guys meant to be our saviours if they weren't given the chance to prove themselves before being thrown in the deep end and expected to play like Hayden or Waugh?

Haddin is 36, he passed his prime two years ago. Watson is just done, injuries have robbed him and now he's not the same guy. Cowan played his first test at 29, did what was required of an opener, and then was criticised for not being flashy enough. Quiney played two ****ing tests, at a position he doesn't even bate, against the best team on the earth. Shaun Marsh had his chance, that's valid, he ****ed up. George Bailey could be something if they played him. Rogers just played his first test at 36.

What do you want from these guys?

 

[bird_man]

I realise Patto has been pretty disappointing so far but I just want to point out that he has a better bowiling average than any of the English bowlers and Harris is the only one in the Aussie side with a better average.

Also, would we be talking about dropping a batsman who averages 50 after two disappointing games? No way!

We need to back the young fella.

 

[Doodlesweaver]

Not sure what to do with Agar. Had a poor test with the ball, but is there any point in dropping him? Where does that leave us for the remainder of the next 8 tests if we do? Maybe we just have to stick with him. If we do decide to drop him I'd rather us bring in another paceman (Faulkner or Bird) and take the gamble with Smith as the best that Lyon might bring is pretty much irrelevant.

I'd like to see Watson dropped, but it's kind of hard to see happening as he is playing an important role with the ball. Hughes also a chance to be dropped, Smith is lucky that he bowled well, Khawaja fought reasonably well in the second innings but I am not overly convinced. Who could come in? Warner and Cowan - jesus it's a sad state of affairs. I'd rather see Voges and Katich drafted in from county cricket.

Haddin should not be in the side. There have been plenty of jokes over the years about picking specialist captains, but a specialist vice captain? ****. His keeping is not good enough, nor is his batting. Wade's not much chop, but if we are going to lose like we are we need to make sure we are learning something

I'd like to see them bite the bullet and bring in a proper keeper.

Watson's role as a bowler isn't winning us matches (ave 88) and he hasn't had a 50 yet, even Steve Smith and Agar have had one each. He is to all intents Anderson's bunny. And his form is poor long term. This isn't a sudden thing. If he is being kept for his all-rounder status, bat him at 7 or drop him.

They will bring in Lyon apparently Agar is injured.

 

[bird_man]

I could handle Hughes or Warner opening and Watson going down to 7.

 

[Torz]

I wish Hughes could go back to opening. Considering that's what he is.

 

[Mordenroo]

Warner is not a test batsman, he has no patience for the long form game, he is suited to one day or T20
not tests.

 

[Tulip]

Warner is not a test batsman, he has no patience for the long form game, he is suited to one day or T20
not tests.

*Reference to him carrying the bat.

Agree.

 

[Doodlesweaver]

I could handle Hughes or Warner opening and Watson going down to 7.

Since the beginning of 2011, he's averaging 25 in 17 matches. Since the beginning of 2012 he's averaging 26 in 11 matches. He might go a little bit better at opening and I guess that's what they are hoping for, but he'll need a bloody flat pitch and probably Anderson to get injured.

He's not Matt Hayden or Mike Hussey who already had a test average of over 50 so you could carry him through his crap periods.

He's averaging 30 with the ball since the beginning of 2011. Since the beginning of 2012 he's averaging over 50. I think he's a better bowler than batsman so bat him at 7 as he's not going to give us much at opener anyway in this series.

 

[carnthemlions]

I'm seriously struggling to find a solution other than sticking with what we've got
Wholesale changes and flying players in will only make things worse. Cricket is still a team sport, and it's not hard to envisage the consequences of removing numerous members of the side and replacing them with guys who haven't been around the team at all.

 

[BluesMan]

Hughes
Rogers
Watson
Ussie
Clarke
Smith
Wade
Siddle
Patto
Harris
Lyon

 

[frankrizzo]

We need to think of changes or else the forum would be pretty boring but deep down i think we all know it really doesn't matter.

Hughes doesn't look up to it at this level, but you could replace hughes with watson warner cowan usman smith rogers well basically all of them.

It's like being made to choose between eating a cat turd or a dog turd, either choice you're still being forced to eat shit.

 

[Belnakor]

Further, if I were Lehman I would be making enquiries about the availability of Australia's two potential match winners in Patrick Cummins and Fawad Ahmed.

nothing wrong with our bowling really. We conceded 600/20 on a pretty flat deck. It was just our woeful first innings that killed us.

 

[Tommy Pierrepoint]

At least we could do an England and send him to the change rooms every 5 minutes so he doesn't have to field.

Watch shield cricket. Cossie is actually very good in the slips. Just as long as he doesn't have to run.

 

[tigs2010]

Watch shield cricket. Cossie is actually very good in the slips. Just as long as he doesn't have to run.

Fair call. Even better can he keep?

 

[tigs2010]

Brett Deledio into the middle order. I watched a video of him carting Fawad Ahmed around everywhere.

 

[Outshined]

I wish Hughes could go back to opening. Considering that's what he is.

Yeh, but you have to feel for the guy. He's been shuffled around opening, coming in at 6 and now 4. Just needs to settle in one spot.

Also, names like Silk and Maddinson getting thrown around are a bit premature. I'm all for getting a bit of new blood into the team and planning for the future, but it has to come with a bit of realism. Silk has played 5 games, and Maddinson would fail miserably in the form he's been in for the past 2 seasons. He's Warner lite atm.

Right now, Hughes, Khawaja and Smith are the incumbents. Let them play and you never know what might happen. Khawaja's knock impressed me. He was clearly out of his depth against Swann (most left handers would be with that kind of rough), but he gritted it out and posted a decent score. If all of the batsmen in the first innings (including himself) did that, we'd have been in no where near as bad shape as we were.

Likewise, Hughes made a composed 81 in the first test, ditto Smith with his 50. They were both atrocious in the second test, but they deserve time to learn from their mistakes and work on building a spot in the side. Obviously none of these have been match winning hundreds, but in a series like this you have to take small victories where you can. The current group of young guys have shown enough to deserve backing for now.