Changes for the 3rd Test

[BluesMan]

Can people for the love of god stop using full career shield averages? ffs, players change the way they bat and mature into better batsmen as they grow older (most of the time). Just use the past couple of season as a form gauge otherwise its irrelevant

 

[Jhye Clark 13]

So who are you suggesting we pick?

Cameron White averages 40, does that put him ahead of Handscomb?

Most of the guys that have stronger averages are the older guys that have been able to improve their average gradually. Guys like Handscomb spent their early years with averages in the low 30's, but he has averaged almost 50 since the start of the 2014/15 season, so really, why do his scores before then really matter?

Hanscomb can obviously bat and has form. It's a far cry from picking players like Ferguson.

Australian cricket died the minute Rod Marsh came onto the scene. The baggy green is no longer a reward.

It's time to blood players with a future... Like Maddinson, Handscomb, Patterson etc, and see how they go since they're not big on rewarding form.

 

[Carbine Chaos]

Hanscomb can obviously bat and has form. It's a far cry from picking players like Ferguson.

Australian cricket died the minute Rod Marsh came onto the scene. The baggy green is no longer a reward.

It's time to blood players with a future... Like Maddinson, Handscomb, Patterson etc, and see how they go since they're not big on rewarding form.

Ferguson has averaged 50 in the Shield over an extended period.

How is that not rewarding form?

 

[PhatBoy]

Can people for the love of god stop using full career shield averages? ffs, players change the way they bat and mature into better batsmen as they grow older (most of the time). Just use the past couple of season as a form gauge otherwise its irrelevant

In principal that's a fair point.

But in relative terms, players are almost never ready for Test cricket either when they start, but even when experience kicks in and they start to perform better, it is rare that a player will permanently escape scrutiny if his average doesn't get to 40 sooner or later.

A good shield player who starts off poorly SHOULD be able to drag his average above at least 40. if their 2 or 3 best seasons can't do this, then they aren't knocking the.door down.

Carl Hooper averaged 50 in the last 3 years or so of his test career but all anyone remembers, rightly so, is that he finished in the 30s and was a massive under achiever.

 

[Jhye Clark 13]

Ferguson has averaged 50 in the Shield over an extended period.

How is that not rewarding form?

He averages a tad under 40 unless it's miraculously improved. He's an average batsman with too many flaws.

 

[The_Reaper]

1. Warner
2. Bancroft
3. Khawaja
4. Smith*
5. Ferguson
6. Handscomb
7. Wade+
8. O'Keefe
9. Starc
10. Hazlewood
11. Bird

 

[iluvparis]

Out
Nevill
Vosges

In
Don't care

Burns/Ferg/Mennie deserve at least two cracks at a test at least.

 

[Carbine Chaos]

He averages a tad under 40 unless it's miraculously improved. He's an average batsman with too many flaws.

You didn't really answer my query about his last 3 seasons. He earned a call up and deserves another shot to prove himself.

The up and coming batsmen aren't very exciting but Handscomb and Patterson look the best of them for me.

 

[Carbine Chaos]

Burns/Ferg/Mennie deserve at least two cracks at a test at least.

Mennie for me didn't even deserve one crack, but I realise that probably makes me appear like a hypocrite because I'm defending Ferguson's record.

He's not Test standard.

 

[carnthemlions]

Here's the thing- insert player from your state isn't going to solve anything here.

Ok so the series is lost, what do we do now for the 3rd Test.

In two tests so far we have had 3 spectacular batting collapses.
1st Innings Perth - 10/86
1st innings Hobart - all out 85
2nd innings Hobart - 7/22 (8/32)

This says our middle order is pathetic and needs a clean out.

My side for 3rd test if Shaun Marsh is fit.

Warner
S. Marsh
Khawaja
Smith
Weatherald - Voges has to go and better to blood a young player than older.
Handscomb - don't like the all-rounder position if you don't have one so give it to a batsman.
Wade - Nevill's keeping hasn't been brilliant, his hesitation to be involved in DRS calls is worrying and his batting pathetic. Wade would make up for keeping with his batting and the additional leadership in the group as Smith is really struggling there.
O'Keefe - Lyon is bowling tripe, was way to short here, little wonder Smith has lost faith. SOK will get nod over the others.
Starc
Siddle - should be fit and given Mennie was ordinary easy selection.
Hazelwood


If Marsh is unfit
Warner
Weatherald
Khawaja
Smith
Handscomb
?? - draw out of a hat? - I'd go with White or Bailey.
Wade
O'Keefe
Starc
Siddle
Hazelwood

An alternative the selectors might do given past history.

Bat Wade at 6, bring back in Mitch Marsh, which would mean probably Weatherald would miss out, shame because I'd love to see the selectors stick their neck out with this kid.

Even with these selectors I really can't see Voges or Ferguson being in the squad for Brisbane and Nevill should be dropped (might be saved by the colour of his state cap) as we need to drastically improve our middle or grit which Wade has shown he has.

Weatherald? He's played 6 FC matches, and I'm not sure how you can conclusively say he's proven that he's a superior talent to Renshaw and Dean in that time.

I wish they'd persist with Maxwell. His technique is a bit of a mess but he's probably the most talented batsman we have.

I dont care if he is a tosser or not, get him in the team at 6

No.

 

[Bradesmaen]

So many idiots in this thread. Blooding young players.. haha. Yeah cause that works, giving ok young batsmen a free crack for being young

 

[damochandler]

Burns goes out. Needs to go back to the middle order

 

[carnthemlions]

I think the most important question is whether Lehmann deserves the chance to turn this around. I vote no, his myopic insistence on a certain style of play, especially when batting, has been incredibly damaging on the whole. It doesn't seem like there's much room for nuance, and without a captain with Clarke's vision, there's really no way this style of play can work. Crash or crash through= car crash.

 

[Jhye Clark 13]

You didn't really answer my query about his last 3 seasons. He earned a call up and deserves another shot to prove himself.

The up and coming batsmen aren't very exciting but Handscomb and Patterson look the best of them for me.

He's made under 50 eight times in his last 12 innings, inc 3 quacks... hardly anything to write home about.

I can't really see how that's earning a call-up.

 

[Admiral Byng]

I think the most important question is whether Lehmann deserves the chance to turn this around. I vote no, his myopic insistence on a certain style of play, especially when batting, has been incredibly damaging on the whole. It doesn't seem like there's much room for nuance, and without a captain with Clarke's vision, there's really no way this style of play can work. Crash or crash through= car crash.

This. Can I like this post a thousand times?

It worked well in a certain era when Australia had a team of superstars in nearly every position. Not so much when the level of talent is so much lesser.

 

[Jhye Clark 13]

1. Warner
2. Bancroft
3. Khawaja
4. Smith*
5. Ferguson
6. Handscomb
7. Wade+
8. O'Keefe
9. Starc
10. Hazlewood
11. Bird

Surely you can't be serious about Bancroft. It's probably a good idea if they select someone who has made some runs before they gift tests off the back of potential.

And Wade doesn't have the technique for test cricket.

 

[royboys4eva]

Ferguson deserves one more chance and at the Adelaide oval. Hard to judge him on this test - got run out first innings and then got a ripping ball second innings. Burns and Voges will need to go. I would bring in Bancroft to open ( least he knows how to leave a ball outside off stump) and i would bring in Handscomb. O'Keefe or Agar for Lyon - who doesn't look like taking wickets or running through sides. Mennie looked average at best. Maybe Jackson Bird or Chadd Sayers for him. I agree Patterson from NSW also needs to be looked at soon as one of the more consistent batsmen in domestic cricket.

 

[BluesMan]

In principal that's a fair point.

But in relative terms, players are almost never ready for Test cricket either when they start, but even when experience kicks in and they start to perform better, it is rare that a player will permanently escape scrutiny if his average doesn't get to 40 sooner or later.

A good shield player who starts off poorly SHOULD be able to drag his average above at least 40. if their 2 or 3 best seasons can't do this, then they aren't knocking the.door down.

Carl Hooper averaged 50 in the last 3 years or so of his test career but all anyone remembers, rightly so, is that he finished in the 30s and was a massive under achiever.

But thats such a complex and unrealistic outlook on statistics. A couple of poor season to start a career shouldnt be relevant if they are now scoring runs the last couple of seasons.

 

[Jhye Clark 13]

Ferguson deserves one more chance and at the Adelaide oval. Hard to judge him on this test - got run out first innings and then got a ripping ball second innings. Burns and Voges will need to go. I would bring in Bancroft to open ( least he knows how to leave a ball outside off stump) and i would bring in Handscomb. O'Keefe or Agar for Lyon - who doesn't look like taking wickets or running through sides. Mennie looked average at best. Maybe Jackson Bird or Chadd Sayers for him. I agree Patterson from NSW also needs to be looked at soon as one of the more consistent batsmen in domestic cricket.

You'd bring in Bancroft to open off the back of scores of 22,6,20,17,56,16,1,8, 65* and 31 in the current season.

That's exactly what's wrong with the current selection process.

 

[Marstermind]

I was referring to playing youth; I meant you need to be prepared to back them in for a few tests at least. On Callum Ferguson; I agree I would not have selected him. But the selectors have.....not much harm in giving another test in a series that is gone anyway. I just can't see 5 changes made to the team.

What if he makes a couple of useful but unspectacular innings (ie a couple of 40s). Do you drop him then? Or do you keep him and deny the younger player a spot for a couple of more Tests? Obviously we don't want him to fail to resolve this problem...so why pick him? It's a Test Match for the Australian Cricket Team - I don't think that anyone should be selected just because it's a dead rubber so why bother picking a better team.

 

[Sprout]

Seems a taboo topic but I just don't see Steve Smith taking them forward as captain. When your team is getting routinely humiliated like this, something is seriously amiss more than just the talent level in the side. Not much about Smith says leadership material to me.

It won't happen but I'd almost be inclined to bring in Bailey as a stop gap senior leader to try and settle the ship. Averaging 65 over his last four knocks.

Might be deemed reactionary but a major shake up is required. These gutless performances can't continue.

 

[Kram]

It won't happen but I'd almost be inclined to bring in Bailey as a stop gap senior leader to try and settle the ship. Averaging 65 over his last four knocks.

lol.

 

[damochandler]

Picking young blokes because they're young and we need to get young. Isn't really a good basis to pick them.

 

[PhatBoy]

But thats such a complex and unrealistic outlook on statistics. A couple of poor season to start a career shouldnt be relevant if they are now scoring runs the last couple of seasons.

Understood, but that's why we have averages.

Say someone has two dog shit seasons and then 2 really good ones, and averages 35 as a FC batsman.

Where's the evidence that the 2 good seasons weren't the outliers? there is none. which is why more stock is usually placed in overall records rather than periodic ones.

Chances are if the player is good enough, they will do enough in their good years to cancel out the effect of the bad ones.

 

[MisterMarcus]

Seeing and hearing Smith after the game, he seemed mentally exhausted and worn down.

Assuming Voges goes, I really think we need one of White or Bailey in there. It's all very well to "blood the kids", but you need the experienced leadership heads to support the captain too.