Changes for the 5th Test SCG

[LukeParkerno1]

He came out of those initial phases exceptionally well, so why can't he do it at test level?

He is averaging about 20 in the last season and a half in Shield/test level. Needless to say I am not counting on him improving!

 

[Zgope1]

Needs to show he can play spinners well, every side has an elite spinner that will get him out more often or not...and this year again he keeps getting out to spin. Needs 2-4 season. Needs to play 2-3 County seasons.

Warner, Watson and Rogers aren't really any better. By the end of the India series Hughes was looking our best against spin despite having been atrocious in the first 2 tests.

He needs to improve against spin but imo needs to do in from inside the australian test side. The key to Phil realising his talent now is time in the side

 

[Showbags]

There is no pattern with those players. The only similarity is that after being dropped they all spent a long time out of the side before getting another game. It's now Hughes' turn to do what they did: pile on the runs for a couple of years before getting another cap.

No pattern? All debuted young got found out then had to go back to Shield (or in Waugh's case continue to struggle in the Australian team) until they matured in their late 20's. If that is not a pattern then I don't know what is.

 

[Showbags]

Shouldn't have played against New Zealand in the first place. Was selected off a sub 20 average shield season for NSW.

Yeah agree. Which is another stuff around by the selectors. They drop him when he doesn't deserve it and pick him when he isn't in form.

 

[LukeParkerno1]

Warner, Watson and Rogers aren't really any better. By the end of the India series Hughes was looking our best against spin despite having been atrocious in the first 2 tests.

He needs to improve against spin but imo needs to do in from inside the australian test side. The key to Phil realising his talent now is time in the side

LOL! He was a shambles against Swann, against India he was pretty ordinary. Warner actually uses his feet against spin! Watson is probably one of the better players of spin generally- he is just rarely in long enough, that said as an AR we have his bowling!

Improving is not done when in the test side. It is done at Shield/County level. We have 'gambled' on improving his technique in the side before and it failed 3 times. No need to do it again.

 

[LukeParkerno1]

No pattern? All debuted young got found out then had to go back to Shield (or in Waugh's case continue to struggle in the Australian team) until they matured in their late 20's. If that is not a pattern then I don't know what is.

Then lets leave Hughes in the Shield until he is 28/29. I don't see anything wrong in that.

 

[Showbags]

There's a difference between this and having his 'papers stamped' (not sure if you said that, but someone did).

Yeah exactly that's my argument. You can't stamp someone's papers this early in their career especially with such a large precedent of recent quality players bouncing back from early setbacks in their careers.

 

[Showbags]

LOL! He was a shambles against Swann, against India he was pretty ordinary. Warner actually uses his feet against spin! Watson is probably one of the better players of spin generally- he is just rarely in long enough, that said as an AR we have his bowling!

Improving is not done when in the test side. It is done at Shield/County level. We have 'gambled' on improving his technique in the side before and it failed 3 times. No need to do it again.

I disagree that you can't improve in the Test side. Steve Waugh (and to a lesser extent Steve Smith) have proven that you can learn on the job.

 

[LukeParkerno1]

I disagree that you can't improve in the Test side. Steve Waugh (and to a lesser extent Steve Smith) have proven that you can learn on the job.

Hughes is not Steve Waugh! Nowhere near it. Waugh had some problems early but they were fixable, Hughes' inability to use his feet against spinners is a major hurdle, and not one that you can do in the side, as frankly he won't do it- it isn't natural for him. He needs 3-4 seasons.

 

[The_Reaper]

In any case Hughes will be a liability in the UAE- though I have little confidence in anyone bar Smith and Clarke there.

 

[Carbine Chaos]

In any case Hughes will be a liability in the UAE- though I have little confidence in anyone bar Smith and Clarke there.

Haddin?

 

[Showbags]

Hughes is not Steve Waugh! Nowhere near it. Waugh had some problems early but they were fixable, Hughes' inability to use his feet against spinners is a major hurdle, and not one that you can do in the side, as frankly he won't do it- it isn't natural for him. He needs 3-4 seasons.

The thing is though apart from Ajmal (who is 36) and and Herath (who is 35) there aren't a lot of quality spinners going around atm (now that Swann has retired). If he can just develop to a level where he is serviceable against spin then that shouldn't be a problem.

I agree that he needs a few seasons though. My problem is that there is no one else and by not picking him the selectors are pretty much saying to everyone "we don't give a shit about Shield form".

 

[The_Reaper]

The thing is though apart from Ajmal (who is 36) and and Herath (who is 35) there aren't a lot of quality spinners going around atm (now that Swann has retired). If he can just develop to a level where he is serviceable against spin then that shouldn't be a problem.

I agree that he needs a few seasons though. My problem is that there is no one else and by not picking him the selectors are pretty much saying to everyone "we don't give a shit about Shield form".

It should be obvious to everyone that Hughes is now a special case and has more to prove than others.

 

[LukeParkerno1]

The thing is though apart from Ajmal (who is 36) and and Herath (who is 35) there aren't a lot of quality spinners going around atm (now that Swann has retired). If he can just develop to a level where he is serviceable against spin then that shouldn't be a problem.

I agree that he needs a few seasons though. My problem is that there is no one else and by not picking him the selectors are pretty much saying to everyone "we don't give a shit about Shield form".

Spinners can play till late, and teams have very good spinners by the way who will tear Hughes apart! As for not having anyone else Lynn, Burns (yes I know out of form), Ferguson, Cooper, Silk, Maddinson (needs more runs), Handscomb, White (not sold), North, Marsh. These players have all made runs this year at some point. We don't need to gamble on Hughes...and it would be exactly that, an absolute punt!

 

[Zgope1]

LOL! He was a shambles against Swann, against India he was pretty ordinary. Warner actually uses his feet against spin! Watson is probably one of the better players of spin generally- he is just rarely in long enough, that said as an AR we have his bowling!

Improving is not done when in the test side. It is done at Shield/County level. We have 'gambled' on improving his technique in the side before and it failed 3 times. No need to do it again.

Yeah he struggled in 3 innings he faced Swann. Rogers was a bunny of his too but worked through it, he improved against spin at test level so i don't know what you're talking about. As did Warner who was very poor in India, by the end of the tour Hughes was handling the spin better than him.

Watson was a disgrace in India, he made Hughes look like Darren Lehmann. He handles Swann's offies fine on aussie wickets just like Hughes had no problems against Herath a year ago.

 

[LukeParkerno1]

Yeah he struggled in 3 innings he faced Swann. Rogers was a bunny of his too but worked through it, he improved against spin at test level so i don't know what you're talking about. As did Warner who was very poor in India, by the end of the tour Hughes was handling the spin better than him.

Watson was a disgrace in India, he made Hughes look like Darren Lehmann. He handles Swann's offies fine on aussie wickets just like Hughes had no problems against Herath a year ago.

3 innings was more than enough- he was so bad it wasn't funny. You must use your feet, it isn't hard to work that out. Rogers doesn't play spin well either but he is better than Hughes at least. Hughes has no idea. Even this year he is getting out to Shield spinners, that isn't a good thing.

Watson was fine against spin, he gets out against quicks that move it a little each way. I worry more about what a Bresnan type will do to Watson than a spinner. He attacks spin which is what should happen

 

[Zgope1]

3 innings was more than enough- he was so bad it wasn't funny. You must use your feet, it isn't hard to work that out. Rogers doesn't play spin well either but he is better than Hughes at least. Hughes has no idea. Even this year he is getting out to Shield spinners, that isn't a good thing.

Watson was fine against spin, he gets out against quicks that move it a little each way. I worry more about what a Bresnan type will do to Watson than a spinner. He attacks spin which is what should happen

Watson was atrocious in India. Like i said it's easy to handle spin in Aus, as Hughes did last year easily managing Herath.

There is no separating Hughes and Rogers v quality spin especially considering Hughes was our best bat in the last two india tests on absolute minefields.

He plays spin better when he's set, like most batsmen, there's not much arguing he goes fine once he is.

You've got tunnel vision if you look at 3 bad knocks and set your mind.

I have a feeling this won't go anywhere so i suggest we agree to disagree.

 

[Doodlesweaver]

The thing is though apart from Ajmal (who is 36) and and Herath (who is 35) there aren't a lot of quality spinners going around atm (now that Swann has retired). If he can just develop to a level where he is serviceable against spin then that shouldn't be a problem.

I agree that he needs a few seasons though. My problem is that there is no one else and by not picking him the selectors are pretty much saying to everyone "we don't give a shit about Shield form".

The fact that he has been recalled so often means that Shield runs do matter. Be good if he went to play County cricket again and preferably for a first division team.

 

[Black Diamond]

There's a difference between this and having his 'papers stamped' (not sure if you said that, but someone did).

I didn't say that. All I'm saying is Hughes should be put on ice for a while and that historically very few players have been dropped three times and still made it back.

 

[Phone]

historically very few players have been dropped three times before 25.

 

[Super Hans]

I didn't say that. All I'm saying is Hughes should be put on ice for a while and that historically very few players have been dropped three times and still made it back.

I never said that you said it.

Look, with Hughes I think everyone agrees it's the best for him and the team to play a fair bit of domestic cricket before he comes back into the test team.

It was only one idiot who said his 'papers are stamped' that generated this whole discussion.

 

[jode]

Hughes will be BACK !!!

 

[madmug]

I never said that you said it.

Look, with Hughes I think everyone agrees it's the best for him and the team to play a fair bit of domestic cricket before he comes back into the test team.

It was only one idiot who said his 'papers are stamped' that generated this whole discussion.

Dont blame my comment on your own inability to read a thread properly.
'Papers stamped' is just an off hand comment, discuss it, sure, but dont call me an idiot. I think we can see who that is.

For the benefit of any one interested in cricket. I hope Hughes proves any detractors wrong. Its great when someone can come through any adversity & have success. We've mentioned Hayden, Langer & others. Hughes certainly needed to remodel his game. The 'weight of runs' is one thing, his technique at the highest level is 'THE' problem he has to overcome.

All power to him if he can.

 

[jode]

How can he prove this technique at the highest leave if he isn't playing ???

All he can do now is score RUNS right ? and he's doing that this year !!
Just turn 25 and has score 24 hundreds, i heard Doolan has scores 6 hundreds only

 

[eth-dog]

Hughes will be BACK !!!

Hence why he's in the squa- oh wait