Preview Changes for the Giants game

[alex_is_on_fire]

Obviously you didn't watch if you think Otten is playing at an AFL standard. He stood Jack on occasion maybe 10 to 15% of the game.

So who was he on then?

Buddy? Hale? Rioli? Whiteross? Breust?

I watched the game, don't worry about that champ.

 

[amer]

Our fumbling was the most disappointing aspect of the game by far. You can dismiss it if you like, but first hands to the ball is more important than anything, and we had that. Sando mentioned on Twitter that we were third in the comp for clearance success prior to the Hawks game. That's significant. Our mids are winning a lot of ball.

Effectiveness to improve. We're in good shape.

 

[alex_is_on_fire]

I wanted Otten dropped last week - he looked disinterested against the Dogs, he didn't do much yesterday to challenge my thinking.

I want him dropped to get his Mojo back though, not to be banished forever

EDIT - yesterday - 7 touches, one tackle, one pressure act... This is the guy who was racking up ~25 possessions most weeks in his first full season with us, and using them beautifully. He isn't a shut down defender, if he offers us nothing offensively, he shouldn't be in the side.

So how about telling us what his exact role in the side is then?

Maybe with the inexperience in the back 6, it's changed. He has to play a very different role now. Maybe he has to play as a shit down defender as we have no other options available yet.

Plus, it's not just about stats

 

[Paladin]

So who was he on then?

Buddy? Hale? Rioli? Whiteross? Breust?

I watched the game, don't worry about that champ.

I saw him stand Burgoyne, Hale a few others. I also saw Rutten and Talia stand Jack for long periods.

 

[Paladin]

I watched the game, don't worry about that champ.

Thats the concern i have with your posting

 

[Paladin]

So how about telling us what his exact role in the side is then?

Maybe with the inexperience in the back 6, it's changed. He has to play a very different role now. Maybe he has to play as a shit down defender as we have no other options available yet.

Plus, it's not just about stats

Its not just this weeks game. He has shown no form the entire preseason and the first 3 rounds. Plenty of guys in the SANFL that are playing well. Also our backline is far too slow and lacks run Andy in particular is giving us nothing. We already have shutdown defenders in Talia, Rutten and Doughty. Cant afford 4.

 

[alex_is_on_fire]

Its not just this weeks game. He has shown no form the entire preseason and the first 3 rounds. Plenty of guys in the SANFL that are playing well. Also our backline is far too slow and lacks run Andy in particular is giving us nothing. We already have shutdown defenders in Talia, Rutten and Doughty. Cant afford 4.

well clearly it is because he's not even close to getting dropped by the match committee.

What's that, week 7 of the get Otten out of the side crusade? Keep trying but I guess Sando doesn't agree with you.

and Doughty is not a shut down defender. He is a half back flanker who offers run, carry and ball movement on the offensive end and covers space, cuts off leads and helps out around stoppages. Anyway, Otten and Doughty play very different roles.

 

[Paladin]

well clearly it is because he's not even close to getting dropped by the match committee.

What's that, week 7 of the get Otten out of the side crusade? Keep trying but I guess Sando doesn't agree with you.

and Doughty is not a shut down defender. He is a half back flanker who offers run, carry and ball movement on the offensive end and covers space, cuts off leads and helps out around stoppages. Anyway, Otten and Doughty play very different roles.

lol at Doughty providing run

Otten will be dropped this week.

 

[King Elvis]

So how about telling us what his exact role in the side is then?

Maybe with the inexperience in the back 6, it's changed. He has to play a very different role now. Maybe he has to play as a shit down defender as we have no other options available yet.

Plus, it's not just about stats

You think he's In the side as a shut down defender?

You don't think we want one of the best decision makers and kicks in our side being a creative, rebounding defender?

And it's not ALL about the stats, but they prove my point.

Attended any of the games so far this season Alex?

 

[BACCS]

The difference between a clearance from each team was quite stark. We had players fumbling, everyone in at the ball trying to pick it up or scramble it forward, few clean possessions, lots of bad handballs, and mostly rushed kicks.

Hawthorn? One player picked the ball up first time. A succession of 2-4 quick, short range handpasses between players under pressure, with no fumbles, every handpass hitting the target, before a long range handpass out to the midfielder who had dropped off the back while all of ours chased the ball, trusting that he wasn't needed in the maul. That player than put a pass onto the chest of a spreading Hawk, and on it went from there.

I don't disagree with any of that, but you also have to remember where each team are at. Hawthorn are 2, maybe 3 years ahead of us in their development and have the best forward and a top 5 mid playing for them. They are a damn good side, and showed just how far off we are until we can compete with teams like that.

 

[alex_is_on_fire]

I saw him stand Burgoyne, Hale a few others. I also saw Rutten and Talia stand Jack for long periods.

Burgoyne was on Vince and played on the wing, Tarlia and Rutten were swapping between Buddy and Hale and Otten was on Gunston for the majority of the game.

Thats the concern i have with your posting

No need to get personal. Play the ball, not the man. But keep trying.

Its not just this weeks game. He has shown no form the entire preseason and the first 3 rounds. Plenty of guys in the SANFL that are playing well. Also our backline is far too slow and lacks run Andy in particular is giving us nothing. We already have shutdown defenders in Talia, Rutten and Doughty. Cant afford 4.

After 7 weeks says you're wrong. So, what you're saying is the coach is an idiot and doesn't know what he's talking about by keeping a player in the side who has shown no form the entire pre season?

Or you could just be wrong.

 

[alex_is_on_fire]

lol at Doughty providing run

Otten will be dropped this week.

7th time lucky i guess.

 

[Peter Doherty]

I would like to see Sam Jacobs given a spell this week, gonna be a long season for him.

 

[jenny61_99]

Next week's a perfect opportunity to get game time into the kids. Rest the old farts and let the kids take on the challenge. Then you go back to normal scheduling once the "break" is over.

 

[alex_is_on_fire]

You think he's In the side as a shut down defender?

He's in the side to play the role given. If that's the role he's asked to play because we have no one else, then yes.

You don't think we want one of the best decision makers and kicks in our side being a creative, rebounding defender?

Or the match committee think he would be a better fit to play an alternative role to fill a need in the team.

And it's not ALL about the stats, but they prove my point.

Really? no it doesn't because you haven't told us his role.

Attended any of the games so far this season Alex?

yep, all 3 in fact and in person.

 

[BACCS]

Tipett was great but all his marks are contested and hard marks. he takes very few easy marks where he runs onto a noce pass from an effective lead . This is because our midfiels never raise their eyes when kicking forward they just bomb it long and high. last year all over again

Maybe because when we can get him isolated one on one, he will mark it 9.5 times out of 10? We have been a lot better this year going inside 50, and I don't think we were atrocious for the whole game yesterday in that regard. Hawthorn are also extremely good at zoning off down back, pin pointing passes to leading forwards isn't as easy as against a lot of other sides. This area has been good in the first two round and NAB Cup.

As I've repeated many times, it was just costly misses and skill errors at crucial times which robbed us of any momentum gained. That will get better as the team gels more; I have no idea what people were expecting yesterday judging by the reaction of this board.

 

[BACCS]

Stats don't always tell a story Alex, but one pressure act in a game for a defender isn't good enough, and I don't think Sando would disagree with that. I'm not as worried about his possession count if he is indeed playing more of a shut down role (which the jury is still out on), but the stats are showing he is lacking intensity and ferociousness for the contest this season, which isn't the type of level you expect from a player like Andy Otten, regardless of the role he is playing.

 

[Hank93]

Next week's a perfect opportunity to get game time into the kids. Rest the old farts and let the kids take on the challenge. Then you go back to normal scheduling once the "break" is over.

I'd like a balance. I don't want to see 10 changes, but a happy medium between resting key players but also maintaining a strong 22.

I won't be disappointed if we name Shaw, Lyons, Wright, Kerridge and Symes this week. Any more than that then we are stretching it IMO.

 

[alex_is_on_fire]

Stats don't always tell a story Alex, but one pressure act in a game for a defender isn't good enough, and I don't think Sando would disagree with that. I'm not as worried about his possession count if he is indeed playing more of a shut down role (which the jury is still out on), but the stats are showing he is lacking intensity and ferociousness for the contest this season, which isn't the type of level you expect from a player like Andy Otten, regardless of the role he is playing.

And yet this is game 7 in total this year and he's yet to be dropped.

Must be doing something right as Sam Shaw was and still in good form during the pre season and with the gay bays.

He must be doing his role in the team or they would have made a change by now.

Or, many on this board are overreacting, like usual.

 

[PykeDream]

Andy is a shadow of the player he was in his first year, when he was showing signs of being an absolute star.

This is the thing. Otten can still be a great player, whether it be for us or a Vic team in the future. At the moment his poor form and our defensive structure have killed his chances.

When Johncock retires or another defender goes down, our structure may change and he may be able to play that more attacking role. At the moment I think Shaw is the better choice for the last defender.

 

[A FEW GOOD MEN]

Wasn't blaming him, was simply pointing out we don't kick the ball back any more.

The second 50% was about the defensive side of the game that our midfield doesn't excel at and it seems only Andy Otten is getting criticized for. Our midfield misses tackles, they go to ground very easy when not in possession of the ball and don't apply as much defensive pressure when the game is on the line.

I did wonder when we declared that our new game plan would be to win the clearances and then just kick the ****er, why wouldn't the opposition just put extra men in defence and run it out again.

The Bulldogs tried to do this but their inexperience and lack of skill kept turning the ball over and we could then take advantage of this. I think that Hawthorn were happy to break even or even lose the clearances as long as they pressured our kicks to their extra man up field waiting for the ball. When they won the ball, our extra man was Radar, nuff said.

I have no complaints about kicking to 1-on-1's in the F50 when under pressure but the last two weeks we have been kicking it on the top of Tippett or Walker's heads. What does concern me is when we have a player running free towards the F50 (e.g. Radar, Vince) and no-one leads, we just kick it to outnumbered forwards.

If this is our new game plan then it would have been cheaper to appoint John Cahill.

It is interesting that the young Coach who is considered to be at the cutting edge of new tactics (Brad Scott) is using handball to run the ball out of defence. Sack him now!!

 

[alex_is_on_fire]

Na, it's all Andy Otten's fault.

Has he been dropped, we would have won by 15 goals.

 

[King Elvis]

He's in the side to play the role given. If that's the role he's asked to play because we have no one else, then yes.

So do you think the role he's in the side to play is as a shut-down defender?

And yet this is game 7 in total this year and he's yet to be dropped.

3 games.

I have no complaints about kicking to 1-on-1's in the F50 when under pressure but the last two weeks we have been kicking it on the top of Tippett or Walker's heads. What does concern me is when we have a player running free towards the F50 (e.g. Radar, Vince) and no-one leads, we just kick it to outnumbered forwards.

We're learning the new style of play - it'll take a while to find the right balance between run and carry and kicking long; at the moment, I think our first impulse is to boot it long.

Will take time, but we'll find the balance.

Na, it's all Andy Otten's fault.

Has he been dropped, we would have won by 15 goals.

Because that's what we've said.

**** sakes Alex.

 

[alex_is_on_fire]

So do you think the role he's in the side to play is as a shut-down defender?

Didn't I ask you?

3 games.

+ 4 pre season games or don't they count?

 

[alex_is_on_fire]

Because that's what we've said.

**** sakes Alex.

It sucks when someone doesn't dig deep and look at the entire situation before making a comment, doesn't it?