Preview Changes for the Giants game

[Ad76]

I just see the MOB as one big amorphous mass. Slippery, Fiery, Elitey, all just part of the dwarfs.

If you came down from your soap box once in a while you might not feel so big...

 

[King Elvis]

Sorry I don't share the love for the same players you do.

I do, but it doesn't make them perfect.

 

[Wallace]

Why don't you and your haters **** off back to bay 13 and troll instead of looking for an argument.

I thought it was a pretty reasonable observation actually. I was actually able to see the boys play live this week and I thought walker and Vince's games were two of the worst individual performances I have seen from experienced players at the club.

It's certainly not a talent issue with these two lads as they have bucket loads of that.

I saw walker deliberately pull out of a number of contests and lurk goalside behind the pack when he could have made it and flown for the grab or at least crashed the pack. Just a few really soft efforts that were shown up horribly by tippetts attack on the ball or hawthorn general approach (see the crazy brave run with the flight by breuest). I honestly couldn't tell if it was a lack of confidence overhead, or of courage but it was awful to watch as a supporter.

Vince just looked disinterested.

Personally I would drop Vince and walker this week.

 

[Lawrst]

You know we lost by 10 goals right?

It must be amazing to be able to place so much blame on 2 players that are so shit.

I don't see you talking about any other player who played bad footy, therefore, it they are shit, why are you placing some much emphasis on them playing brilliant footy for us to win.

What other players did you think from the game against the Hawks needed to step up?

 

[alex_is_on_fire]

What other players did you think from the game against the Hawks needed to step up?

All of them.

You think we lost by 10 goals simply because of Vince, Walker and Otten?

Really?

 

[alex_is_on_fire]

Some people are not going to be happy until Walker has a season where he kicks 160 goals, 220 marks, 440 kicks and 200 odd handballs. Plus 200 tackles.

and Vince wins the Brownlow with 66 votes.

 

[Mismatched]

FFS
BOG - NAB Cup Final
R1- Probably in Best 8-10
R2 - Close to BOG - just pipped by Thommo (in fact you gave him 3 votes in POTY)

OK he was quiet on the weekend but he was no orphan there. I reckon he was being tagged as well, probably difficult to pick it up on TV, was anyone at the game who could verify ?? Smart tag by Hawthorn we have inside strength so block the outside runners.

Haha, woops Just goes to show how disgusted I was in Vince's performance. It was a game where we really needed our experienced players to stand up and Vince just looked like he didn't want to be there, didn't want to actually put in the hard yards to help his team out. I guess its the guys we rate the highest that we are often the harshest markers of. I guess I can be a little more forgiving of Walker as he's still a young bloke and playing 2nd string to a guy like Tippett can be tough at times, but for a bloke who's 26 and blessed with such talent, it was an extremely disappointing performance.

 

[Drugs Are Bad Mackay?]

All of them.

You think we lost by 10 goals simply because of Vince, Walker and Otten?

Really?

Spot on.

Every player except for Jacobs hovered between 'soundly beaten' and 'awful' with a couple of 'wastefuls' thrown in for company.

 

[Wallace]

Some people are not going to be happy until Walker has a season where he kicks 160 goals, 220 marks, 440 kicks and 200 odd handballs. Plus 200 tackles.

and Vince wins the Brownlow with 66 votes.

No need to throw a tantrum and pretend other posters have ridiculous expectations.

All I was hoping for from tex on the weekend was consistent attack on the ball in the air when it was kicked to him and a bit of genuine courage or toughness. If he brings that every week his natural talent as a goal kicker will take care of the rest. We didn't get it last week but he is relatively young and he has shown some improvement in this area this year. He took some big steps backward on the weekend though.

Vince is a bigger problem. More experienced but has gone backwards the last few years. He deserves to be dropped this week on performance or attitude alone.

 

[alex_is_on_fire]

No need to throw a tantrum and pretend other posters have ridiculous expectations.

All I was hoping for from tex on the weekend was consistent attack on the ball in the air when it was kicked to him and a bit of genuine courage or toughness. If he brings that every week his natural talent as a goal kicker will take care of the rest. We didn't get it last week but he is relatively young and he has shown some improvement in this area this year. He took some big steps backward on the weekend though.

Vince is a bigger problem. More experienced but has gone backwards the last few years. He deserves to be dropped this week on performance or attitude alone.

 

[Paladin]

Spot on.

Every player except for Jacobs hovered between 'soundly beaten' and 'awful' with a couple of 'wastefuls' thrown in for company.

Thought Danger, Tippett and Talia could lay claim to winning their position with room for improvement of course

 

[Lawrst]

All of them.

You think we lost by 10 goals simply because of Vince, Walker and Otten?

Really?

No. I was just wondering.

So you think Jacob and Danger were unacceptable?

 

[Drugs Are Bad Mackay?]

You can't give Tippett or Dangerfield a pass mark.

Tippett started very well but missed opportunities and did nothing after half time.

Dangerfield worked hard and got a bit of the ball but there was very little clean, probing ball movement as a result of his actions - certainly compared to what the Hawks midfield generated.

Talia and Doughty were solid down back but gave us no drive at all. Incomplete games.

Callinan looked dangerous but did most of his damage after the game was lost.

Jacobs was the only one who could be satisfied with his game.

 

[Wood_Duck]

You can't give Tippett or Dangerfield a pass mark.

Tippett started very well but missed opportunities and did nothing after half time.

Dangerfield worked hard and got a bit of the ball but there was very little clean, probing ball movement as a result of his actions - certainly compared to what the Hawks midfield generated.

Talia and Doughty were solid down back but gave us no drive at all. Incomplete games.

Callinan looked dangerous but did most of his damage after the game was lost.

Jacobs was the only one who could be satisfied with his game.

Thats pretty fair I reckon.

While its great to see Danger getting more ball this year, his ball use needs to improve dramatically.

 

[srv23]

You can't give Tippett or Dangerfield a pass mark.

Tippett started very well but missed opportunities and did nothing after half time.

Dangerfield worked hard and got a bit of the ball but there was very little clean, probing ball movement as a result of his actions - certainly compared to what the Hawks midfield generated.

Talia and Doughty were solid down back but gave us no drive at all. Incomplete games.

Callinan looked dangerous but did most of his damage after the game was lost.

Jacobs was the only one who could be satisfied with his game.

Apparently the deal is that it's ok for average players to have shit games but not ok for talented players to have shit games. At least 15 players were ordinary on the weekend, it wasn't just Vince and Walker.

Jacobs was outstanding, Tippett competed brilliantly in the first half - faded a nit in the second - unfortunately his misses were costly, Danger, Thommo, VB got a lot of the ball particularly in the contested situation, Talia did a reasonable job in defence, Callinan was pretty good, Dogga did a good job on Rioli but did little else. As for the rest, they were pretty much all crap...

Vince 11 touches
Reilly 13
Doughty 12
Smith 15
Sloane 15
Porps 11
Johncock 15
Rutten 7
Otten 7
Martin 12
Pets 9
Walker 4
Lynch 6 - did kick 2 nice goals but only 6 touches in 3/4 of footy

No-one is excusing Walker or Vince's performances which were awful but just about the whole team was god awful. As an example I don't see many people canning Radar's performance getting 13 touches as our main playmaker out of defence but think Vince was an absolute disgrace with 11 touches. Yes Vince was shit, so was Tex but they had about 13 mates on the day..

 

[Drugs Are Bad Mackay?]

Apparently the deal is that it's ok for average players to have shit games but not ok for talented players to have shit games. At least 15 players were ordinary on the weekend, it wasn't just Vince and Walker.

Jacobs was outstanding, Tippett competed brilliantly in the first half - faded a nit in the second - unfortunately his misses were costly, Danger, Thommo, VB got a lot of the ball particularly in the contested situation, Talia did a reasonable job in defence, Callinan was pretty good, Dogga did a good job on Rioli but did little else. As for the rest, they were pretty much all crap...

Vince 11 touches
Reilly 13
Doughty 12
Smith 15
Sloane 15
Porps 11
Johncock 15
Rutten 7
Otten 7
Martin 12
Pets 9
Walker 4
Lynch 6 - did kick 2 nice goals but only 6 touches in 3/4 of footy

No-one is excusing Walker or Vince's performances which were awful but just about the whole team was god awful. As an example I don't see many people canning Radar's performance getting 13 touches as our main playmaker out of defence but think Vince was an absolute disgrace with 11 touches. Yes Vince was shit, so was Tex but they had about 13 mates on the day..

Spot on.

And veering off your point slightly, I wonder what conclusions the club will draw from the performances of these players?

Will it be put down to just a bad day at the office... need to improve in certain areas... still learning a slightly new game plan etc.

Or

Will we decide that some of these guys just aren't good enough?

The hard thing is that as a coach you're looking for patterns. Anyone can have a bad game and anyone can have a good day. It is dangerous to form long term conclusions based on one-off events.

But the next two weeks we play GWS and Port. I'm sure a number of players who were poor against Hawthorn will be back with a vengeance in the next two weeks. But what does it mean? Do you place more stock in the NAB Cup and the four games out of the first five against bottom 8 clubs? Or do you place more stock in the one game against a quality team? The easy draw makes it hard to identify patterns.

In the past we have glossed over losses to quality teams.

Didn't play to our best... contested ball was down... injuries cost us... goalkicking was poor etc. There have been very few consequences for games like the Hawthorn one and there has always been a mediocre opposition around the corner for us to feel like we're back on track.

I reckon Sanderson would have learned more about us on Sunday than he had in the previous 6 months.

 

[Freddy Bassett]

I thought it was a pretty reasonable observation actually. I was actually able to see the boys play live this week and I thought walker and Vince's games were two of the worst individual performances I have seen from experienced players at the club.

It's certainly not a talent issue with these two lads as they have bucket loads of that.

I saw walker deliberately pull out of a number of contests and lurk goalside behind the pack when he could have made it and flown for the grab or at least crashed the pack. Just a few really soft efforts that were shown up horribly by tippetts attack on the ball or hawthorn general approach (see the crazy brave run with the flight by breuest). I honestly couldn't tell if it was a lack of confidence overhead, or of courage but it was awful to watch as a supporter.



Vince just looked disinterested.

Personally I would drop Vince and walker this week.

Dont talk truth around here Wallace ok... Walker doesn't need to contest nor present because his goals per game are as good as Wayne Carey at a similar age and that is all that matters

It is good to read a post from someone who has an understanding of the game

 

[srv23]

And even more on Vince and Tex's seasons - both of whom I agree were absolutely shit on Sunday.. However so far this season

Vince who won the Michael Tuck medal
Round 1 22 possessions 9 contested 3 marks 4 centre clearances
Round 2 26 posessions 14 contested 6 marks 6 centre clearances

Walker
Round 1 15 possessions 5 contested 8 marks 5 goals 2 behinds
Round 2 16 possessions 9 contested 6 marks 3 goals 4 behinds

Do we really believe these are the 2 guys who deserve to be dropped after Sunday? They had a shit game on Sunday after a reasonable start to the season. Once again, just like the bulk of the side.

 

[Cap]

honestly, flown for the mark or crashed the pack for what result?

Which contests are you talking about? where there already enough Crows players within the pack? would Walker going up have left a Hawthorn player free ? is positioning yourself to kick a goal a bad idea for a forward player?

Crashing packs and flying for marks don't always have positive results, just because it makes a few arm chair supporters feel warm and fuzzy doesn't mean it was warranted. Especially if he had no realistic chance of taking the mark (or worse giving a way a stupid free kick or injuring fellow Crows players)

 

[jenny61_99]

Agreed Cap. One bad game does not warrant being dropped IMO. Let him kick a bag full this weekend, get his confidence up.

The most important thing though, regarding Tex and how he played on the weekend, had far more to do with the type of delivery into the forward lines rather than what he did when it was bombed in time and time again. Fix that up, and you'll have him at his best. Don't address it - we'll have more of the same.

 

[Freddy Bassett]

honestly, flown for the mark or crashed the pack for what result?

Which contests are you talking about? where there already enough Crows players within the pack? would Walker going up have left a Hawthorn player free ? is positioning yourself to kick a goal a bad idea for a forward player?

Crashing packs and flying for marks don't always have positive results, just because it makes a few arm chair supporters feel warm and fuzzy doesn't mean it was warranted. Especially if he had no realistic chance of taking the mark (or worse giving a way a stupid free kick or injuring fellow Crows players)

Seriously disagree with your post....

As a full forward you MUST provide a contest. Even if you cant mark the ball you must bring the ball to ground. It is the basics for anyone who has played the game. Walker so often stays on the ground hoping the ball will go over the top so he can cherrypick an easy goal..

I do not expect him to split packs and put people in hospital. But he must get better at simply contesting the ball in the air.. And if he doesn't I can guarantee you this site will go into melt down when he gets dropped back to Norwood. Will Craig and Sando both wrong? No doubt!

 

[King Elvis]

Tippett started very well but missed opportunities and did nothing after half time.

Talia and Doughty were solid down back but gave us no drive at all. Incomplete games.

I give Tippett a pass mark, but not a high one.

His goal kicking was average, no question, but outside of that, his game was very good, and he was playing a lone hand. Not only that, he was r*ped by the Umpires again.

Talia I give a pass mark for his shut-down work; at the stage of his career he is at, I'm not expecting much in the way of disposals or run/carry.

Agree with Jacobs - he's the only player I'd give a gold star to, instead of just a pass.

 

[Cap]

Seriously disagree with your post....

As a full forward you MUST provide a contest. Even if you cant mark the ball you must bring the ball to ground. It is the basics for anyone who has played the game. Walker so often stays on the ground hoping the ball will go over the top so he can cherrypick an easy goal..

I do not expect him to split packs and put people in hospital. But he must get better at simply contesting the ball in the air.. And if he doesn't I can guarantee you this site will go into melt down when he gets dropped back to Norwood. Will Craig and Sando both wrong? No doubt!

create a contest no doubt, but if there is already a contest what benefit does a team get adding another player in to an already congested space?

Darren Jarman was the king of the easy goal, go back and watch any highlight reel of his - 3 blokes go up, he waits down collects the crumbs kicks the goal - it is a stock standard skill of any natural forward - knowing when to go up and when to stay down.

to be clear, I'm not suggesting Walker need never make a contest, I just do not see the point in him entering into a contest in which he will won't either 1) take the mark or 2) stop the opposition taking the mark. making hero statements like breaking open a pack don't suit his game style and ultimately don't benefit the club.

This view is on the basis that there is already a contest (i.e multiple players from both teams)

 

[alex_is_on_fire]

Dont talk truth around here Wallace ok... Walker doesn't need to contest nor present because his goals per game are as good as Wayne Carey at a similar age and that is all that matters

It is good to read a post from someone who has an understanding of the game

No Freddy, you enjoy reading stuff you agree with.

Bagging Walker doesn't suggest someone has a solid understanding of the game, it suggest they know how to read and follow the masses on this board.

But lets continue to bag Walker, Vince and Otten as it's easy and allows most to mask the real problems. Lets bag them out and suggest they are our only problems and expect them to win games for us when we all know - we have bigger problems that just 3 ****ing players.

 

[alex_is_on_fire]

Seriously disagree with your post....

As a full forward you MUST provide a contest. Even if you cant mark the ball you must bring the ball to ground. It is the basics for anyone who has played the game. Walker so often stays on the ground hoping the ball will go over the top so he can cherrypick an easy goal..

I do not expect him to split packs and put people in hospital. But he must get better at simply contesting the ball in the air.. And if he doesn't I can guarantee you this site will go into melt down when he gets dropped back to Norwood. Will Craig and Sando both wrong? No doubt!

Then that will give more ammo to the Walker haters to bag him for getting in Tippett's way and not having an understanding of the game.

Selfish, arrogant, only plays for himself and not a team player will be the new lines of bagging he will receive from the so called people who know and understand football.