Changes Needed

[-CG-]

They reckon Bocks out for 3-4

I guess Stevens keeps his spot.

 

[Alex99]

Please, we all know no one will get dropped. Apart from Robert Shirley i cannot remember the last time Neil Craig has dropped a senior player. Senior guys will come in and out of the side because of injury but very, very rarely get dropped due to form.

Out: Goodwin (injury)

In: Shirley

 

[pashmineh]

I like Moran. People forget he hasn't even played 15 games. Give the guy a break - he's a friggin' rookie.

 

[macca23]

Going forward I think we can only afford one of either Doughty or Shirley after this year. I believe both are coming out of contract and I expect one will more than likely get a one year deal while the other will be delisted so I think Doughty will be there, but Shirley wont.

Ermmmm, no, they're not.

I know from his family that Shirley's contract renewal was for 2 years, while it was stated in the Advertiser that Doughty was given a 2 year contract after his good year last year.

I can only think that when they were given their contract extensions that the Match Committee must have anticipated that 2 of Goody, Macca and Edwards would be gone at the end of this year, and were trying to have at least some senior players left to balance up what will be a young side in 2010.

It's a strange one.

 

[pashmineh]

I hope Shirley retires. Doughty is still useful.

 

[Sir Vlado]

I guess both are nearing their 30s, if they haven't reached them yet. They'll probably retire after their contacts expire.

 

[Alex99]

I hope Shirley retires. Doughty is still useful.

At what but? hospital handballs

 

[Drummond]

Having a crack isn't enough if he's not winning the ball, giving away free kicks and not making enough tackles stick.

Cringeworthy.

Giving away free kicks? He gave away 2 free kicks today, right? Guess how both were given away, holding the ball. One a complete farce and the other when he came flying in off the wing and tried to break through the middle in an attempt to get the ball moving. And yet you want him dropped, give me a freaking break.

 

[Brenton Davy]

Fair call, except for the flag in two years. The problem is the players who are the next oldest after our veterans arent that good or in danger of being delisted themselves. Players such as shirley, doughty, stevens. In normal circumstances these guys would be leading the club to a premiership in 2 years but they are incapable.
Therefore we will have even more juniors playing in 2 years time than we have today. Assuming these juniors are talented, they should complement a core group of our current promising juniors. We are more likely to be a premiership contender when Tippett, Walker, Danger, Otten etc have played for about 5 years straight together, say 2014.

What is also going against us being contenders in 2 years is the competition. Teams like Geelong, St Kilda, Hawthorn and WB will still be strong and Carlton will be around the mark.

Sorry if I have depressed anyone, Im now going into the shed to start the car.

The last quarter was a fair indication where we are heading as we start to lose the veterans. I still think 2 years is a fair call.

 

[Drummond]

No because Morans Rucking efforts were EVEN WORSE than Griffins

TWT but to me what I have seen of Maric in the SANFL since being dropped still shows him to lack a fierce agressive approach to the game .......something he was doing last season

Griffin over Maric for me ATS

Serious question, are you lying here to make your point appear more credible? You're honestly telling me you have seen him in the SANFL over the past two weeks? If so then good on you, I just find it hard to believe.

Maric has kicked 7 goals in 2 weeks since being dropped, that's more than enough evidence to suggest he's due to come back in next week. Should've never been dropped in the first place but that's another story. Griffin’s performance last week was one of the more pathetic things I have ever seen. He would be standing next to Lade, Lade calls for the ball, the ball is kicked in that direction and somehow Lade would make 5 metres of space and take an uncontested mark. Griffin was not even competitive last week, not in the slightest.

And what I find real ironic is that Griffin is considered the more athletic, around the ground type ruckman. How come Maric seems to always win more of the ball and have more of an impact around the ground?

Maric >>> Griffin >>>>>>>>>>> Moran.

 

[macca23]

The last quarter was a fair indication where we are heading as we start to lose the veterans. I still think 2 years is a fair call.

I'm with you on this one Brenton. This year is just part of the process of getting there.

 

[jackster83]

Maric >>> Griffin >>>>>>>>>>> Moran.

Tippett >>> the lot of them. He's also the youngest of the lot. He can go forward but having a good forward set up is useless if you can't get the ball down there. He is clearly our best ruck atm and will need to spend at least 50% of his time rucking unless one of our other rucks can hold their own. Maric should have never been dropped...

 

[cook_4_me_myke]

Rutten, what to do with him?? Absolutely horrible, looked really slow when Johnson walked in for that goal in the 1st oe 2nd quarter, just needs to get form in the SANFL, if not, trade bait?? Cant have him giving away goals??

Good call on Triple M today after the game, someone saying that maybe he should play up forward after 'apparently' hes been not 100% fit; it was about placing him in the forward line since he can mark, kick and has good body strength.
I dont think this is a good time to exactly change his position since Bock is out and we need some strength in the backline, but does anyone think that this is a good idea?

 

[hendo8888]

People who IMO should be feeling very worried about their positions after today:

Doughty (still coasting along on last year's form and the fact he's in the leadership group. His consisitant look away handballs that missed the target by 3-4 metres when the guy is 1 metre away from him hurt us time after time)
Mcleod (soft as butter, will not go in hard for anything. Will not defend even when his man is carving us up. He doesn't have his pace anymore, so he's become just a flashy Dale Thomas player who doesn't do his job now)
Johncock (paid Akermanis absolutely no respect today and he crucified us. He kicked 3 goals 2 and set up 3-4 others)
Whoever was on Eagleton in the second half. (well, whoever was supposed to be anyway)
Moran (bring in someone who can ruck and isn't afraid to kick the ball, ie. Maric)
Rutten (it's been completely obvious all year that the speed of the game has left him behind. He was outrun by Tredrea FFS last week. Unfortunately Bock is injured and we don't have another key backman, so he will keep his spot)
The coach who decided we were going to go with the play-on and handball at all times style. (if you mark the ball or get a free kick, you should look to kick first, then handball if there's no option. Don't handball to someone who has a player within tackling distance.)
Petrenko (he was good in round 1 and has done basically nothing since. Send him back to the SANFL where he can get a few kicks and do some trademark runs and carries and more importantly, actually get on the field for more than 3 minutes at a time)
Stevens (we haven't got another option which means he keeps his spot, but he's been terrible all year. Looks way down on confidence and doesn't look himself out there. Looks like McGregor of last year out there and he's much better than that)

That's probably all for now.
This post isn't just a knee-jerk after our loss this week, I've thought this for 3-4 weeks now and it's reached the point where it's beyond a joke. I hope that Johncock doesn't get dropped, because he's been good other games this year, but today was unacceptable and was a disgrace to think that we call him a defender.

 

[The Karma Bus]

Fair call, except for the flag in two years. The problem is the players who are the next oldest after our veterans arent that good or in danger of being delisted themselves. Players such as shirley, doughty, stevens. In normal circumstances these guys would be leading the club to a premiership in 2 years but they are incapable.
Therefore we will have even more juniors playing in 2 years time than we have today. Assuming these juniors are talented, they should complement a core group of our current promising juniors. We are more likely to be a premiership contender when Tippett, Walker, Danger, Otten etc have played for about 5 years straight together, say 2014.

What is also going against us being contenders in 2 years is the competition. Teams like Geelong, St Kilda, Hawthorn and WB will still be strong and Carlton will be around the mark.

Sorry if I have depressed anyone, Im now going into the shed to start the car.

This is a point ive discussed with people i know, the guys that should be our next goodwins, mcleods, edwards, arent even within a galaxy of these players..

When these guys mentioned were the "next group", we had hart, darren jarman, clarke, modra, jameson, caven and many other good players older than them..

And we knew we had the replacements in roo, macca, edwards etc..

Now we have mid to late 20's players that are no champs..

We're going to have to wait til the real young group comes through, 5 years til we even think about a flag.. Theyll be getting to 23-25 ish years old by then..

 

[Vader]

Good call on Triple M today after the game, someone saying that maybe he should play up forward after 'apparently' hes been not 100% fit; it was about placing him in the forward line since he can mark, kick and has good body strength.
I dont think this is a good time to exactly change his position since Bock is out and we need some strength in the backline, but does anyone think that this is a good idea?

He's been tried in the forward line several times, usually against the Dogs (because their short forward line doesn't give him an obvious opponent). Aside from kicking 3 goals with his first 3 kicks, it's been a dismal failure every time. Chicken Man & Stevens are capable of going forward, Rutten isn't.

 

[relapse]

Ermmmm, no, they're not.

I know from his family that Shirley's contract renewal was for 2 years, while it was stated in the Advertiser that Doughty was given a 2 year contract after his good year last year.

I can only think that when they were given their contract extensions that the Match Committee must have anticipated that 2 of Goody, Macca and Edwards would be gone at the end of this year, and were trying to have at least some senior players left to balance up what will be a young side in 2010.

It's a strange one.

Are you sure about Shirley, I remember last year everyone wanting him to be delisted and everyone was saying that he was safe because he was still under contract, or at least that is what the general consensus on this board was. Obviously the info from you though as always would be pretty much spot on accurate.

Now as I think about it, you are right about Doughty getting 2 years at the end of last season. I honestly find it astonishing that they would offer Shirley a 2 year deal especially after getting burned from McGregor and if it did indeed happen then I would be really disappointed with the club for doing this This also brings into question the long term planning surely Craig must have known last year that he wasnt going to feature in the long term plans ........... or maybe it is Viney's call about Shirley not playing this year.

 

[The Sloane Ranger]

it seems Goody may miss and Edwards is doubtful

Stevens form is very poor at the momenet as his attack on the ball is hesitant and he is making too many errors so he will come under some pressure

Petrenko, I like the way he attacks the ball however he is extremely nervous when he gets the footy and is missing easy opportunities

shirley, cook, jacky and maric to come under strong consideration

 

[SellarStardom]

Jacky or Cook will be considered for next week. I actually think that Jacky is likely. I think some of the players are out of position as well. Petrenko should go into the HB area with Reily up to the wing. Vince and Knights should be around the HF area with Danger, VB, Thommo in the centre and rotating with the guys at HF.

Maric or Griff may be considered, both Tippett and Moran will stay in I expect. Just wish they would use Moran in the forward line more, he can take a grab and when he doesn't shit himself can kick a goal.

Shirley I doubt will play. Wonder who played well enough in the SANFL to get a gig. Sellar sounded alright but too early, he needs to string a fair few good games together

 

[L_Maximus]

Tippett >>> the lot of them. He's also the youngest of the lot. He can go forward but having a good forward set up is useless if you can't get the ball down there. He is clearly our best ruck atm and will need to spend at least 50% of his time rucking unless one of our other rucks can hold their own. Maric should have never been dropped...

Good call on Tippett jackster. He is miles ahead of the other 3 at this stage, which should be embarassing for Maric & Griff seeing they have a couple of years of experience over him (possibly more seeing Kurt is a basketball convert). As much as people have been calling for him to be played up forward more, we simply can't because our other rucks are playing scheizenhausen at the moment!

I'm not a Moran hater, but he had some poor moments yesterday. Dropped a sitter on the lead, missed a sitter from 20m out directly in front and what little else he did was pretty non-descript. Not sure whether he'll get another week in the 1's but from the sounds of everyone's posts on Maric's form in the SANFL, he might be out this week.

I'm not sure there will be any other changes apart from forced ones (i.e. Goody), and can't say I'd be disappointed if there weren't. I think a lot of people need to take a deep breath and a reality check, and realise where we are at the moment and realistically what we're going to achieve this year. I'm all for developing youngsters (and therefore advocate the likes of Petrenko staying in, despite a quiet game), but at the same time I don't think we should drop 'oldies' (a ala Stevens, Doughty) for the sake of playing someone who isn't ready and risk hindering their development.

One definite change needed quick smart is our disposal - terrible particularly in the 3rd quarter yesterday.

 

[Tex200]

This is a point ive discussed with people i know, the guys that should be our next goodwins, mcleods, edwards, arent even within a galaxy of these players..

When these guys mentioned were the "next group", we had hart, darren jarman, clarke, modra, jameson, caven and many other good players older than them..

And we knew we had the replacements in roo, macca, edwards etc..

Now we have mid to late 20's players that are no champs..

We're going to have to wait til the real young group comes through, 5 years til we even think about a flag.. Theyll be getting to 23-25 ish years old by then..

This is absolutely correct. I heard Paul Hamilton interviewed upon resigning and he identified this as the greatest area of concern on our list. We are paying the price now for all the failed first round draft picks (4) that should have seen 4 x 50-100 game players now looking to lead the club.

 

[WaynesWorld19]

Serious question, are you lying here to make your point appear more credible? You're honestly telling me you have seen him in the SANFL over the past two weeks? If so then good on you, I just find it hard to believe.

Maric has kicked 7 goals in 2 weeks since being dropped, that's more than enough evidence to suggest he's due to come back in next week. Should've never been dropped in the first place but that's another story. Griffin’s performance last week was one of the more pathetic things I have ever seen. He would be standing next to Lade, Lade calls for the ball, the ball is kicked in that direction and somehow Lade would make 5 metres of space and take an uncontested mark. Griffin was not even competitive last week, not in the slightest.

And what I find real ironic is that Griffin is considered the more athletic, around the ground type ruckman. How come Maric seems to always win more of the ball and have more of an impact around the ground?

Maric >>> Griffin >>>>>>>>>>> Moran.

OK here's my rebuttle:

As hopeless as you think Griffin was last week ......it was still on a par to Marics effort in the second half of his last AFL game

I have watched Maric thankyou and his body language was IMO nothing flash and on the casual side
Last season 2nd half that is he was ultra agressive and his footy and ruckwork benefited enormously to the point he was the heart and soul of the team

Fast forward this year .....different approach and IMO the same output and body language that say him miss the the first half of last season.

7 goals ....OK .....but Drummond he was not dropped for his goal kicking

To Griffins credit one of my major criticisms of his has been his inability to takle a contested mark .......at least in his last game he took 3 very good contested marks

All Iam saying is that you can way up good pro's and con's ATM for both players

Just think Griffins ruckwork is better .....whilst acknowledging his incompetence at not picking up the ruckman around the ground

 

[-CG-]

OK here's my rebuttle:

As hopeless as you think Griffin was last week ......it was still on a par to Marics effort in the second half of his last AFL game

I have watched Maric thankyou and his body language was IMO nothing flash and on the casual side
Last season 2nd half that is he was ultra agressive and his footy and ruckwork benefited enormously to the point he was the heart and soul of the team

Fast forward this year .....different approach and IMO the same output and body language that say him miss the the first half of last season.

7 goals ....OK .....but Drummond he was dropped for his ruckwork

To Griffins credit one of my major criticisms of his has been his inability to takle a contested mark .......at least in his last game he took 3 very good contested marks

All Iam saying is that you can way up good pro's and con's ATM for both players

Just think Griffins ruckwork is better .....whilst acknowledging his incompetence at not picking up the ruckman around the ground

Agree with this

 

[cook_4_me_myke]

Jacky or Cook will be considered for next week. I actually think that Jacky is likely. I think some of the players are out of position as well. Petrenko should go into the HB area with Reily up to the wing. Vince and Knights should be around the HF area with Danger, VB, Thommo in the centre and rotating with the guys at HF.

Maric or Griff may be considered, both Tippett and Moran will stay in I expect. Just wish they would use Moran in the forward line more, he can take a grab and when he doesn't shit himself can kick a goal.

Shirley I doubt will play. Wonder who played well enough in the SANFL to get a gig. Sellar sounded alright but too early, he needs to string a fair few good games together

I totally agree with your first paragraph and would love ot see Jacky be given a chance. Also about Petrenkos position, I think he was playing very well in the backline so have no idea why he was moved.
Dangerfield needs to be in the centre, since he has so much strength.
Im really liking Vince in the centre at the moment, as his skills (especially kicking) is amazing. Really, I would love to see him running from the backline to give us some poise and skills back there while Bock is out.

I seriously think Maric should come back, even though he wasnt in the best form, I think its his time to come back.
Im one of those posters who dont write off people after they play a few shit games, so I think Moran should be kept in since he knew that this game would predict whether he will take the ruck spot or not. He got worst on round on Tripe M but I think another game with him playing in the forward line shall be good to see.

Shirley wont get a game full stop. His career was over at the start of this year.
I think Sellar is a long way off from playing. He is a long term project.

 

[shaunycrow]

mmm ok well if craig doesnt want to play tippet as a perm forward with maric/griffen as the ruckman... then how about throwing mcleod in the goal square ina roo type roll?

he has been playing terrible... he gets tagged and doesnt want to run hard.. but he has speed and can crumb, why not throw him in the square against the lions and see if he can kick 3 or 4 to help tippet, porpz and walker?