Preview Changes & Pre-match Discussion vs. North Melbourne (R15, Sat 29/06 7:25pm MRVL)

[Kirby]

Experience is not the issue, he's played 31 games but 2018 Scharenberg was the last defender who was going to get squeezed out before he did his knee. And from all reports he's improved since then. Give him a chance. You overrate Howe and underrate Scharenberg.

I can't say I agree with that statement at all.

He was playing well but was still behind Howe and Langdon as medium defenders.

Schaz was in the "handy to good" range last year but I wouldn't have called him a standout.

 

[Aishole]

Experience is not the issue, he's played 31 games but 2018 Scharenberg was the last defender who was going to get squeezed out before he did his knee. And from all reports he's improved since then. Give him a chance. You overrate Howe and underrate Scharenberg.

No, I don't underrate Scharenberg. The fact is, there is very little to judge him off right now. He may well have improved, but lets see that at the highest level before we go over-rating him.

31 games is a small sample size. Did I say he can never be better then Howe? No. But to say after 31 games he is, is just flat-out wrong. I am basing this off Howe's 175 games v Schaz's 31.

 

[Aishole]

I can't say I agree with that statement at all.

He was playing well but was still behind Howe and Langdon as medium defenders.

Schaz was in the "handy to good" range last year but I wouldn't have called him a standout.

Yep. Was found out multiple times in certain match-ups. No one is debating his class with the ball, but he still has a way to go in term of buiding the full-package of a standout AFL player.

 

[sirlothie]

McCartin, Toumpas, Morton... I could go on... but your draft pick means nothing when in the AFL, it is essentially a ranking based off your underage performance.

No one is going to debate against you in a case of whether Schaz has class or not. That isn't up for debate, its clear he has class. and i have no doubt he will come in and play a role at some point in Howes absence. But to say he is better then Howe, to this point of their career is wrong. Howe has made 40 man AA squad, Scharenberg has not. Has never been close.

Considering Scharenberg has never played a full season it would be pretty hard to do. I'm not going to continue trying to argue on a 2019 AFL sample size of zero but Howe has some things Shaz does not, Shaz has some things Howe does not. Let's just see how to slots back in and judge from there.

 

[Kappa]

Shaz has some elite traits but I think we need to wait and see how much speed and agility he's lost, and of course whether his body will hold up now.

 

[Robroy22]

What number was Swanny drafted at again?

 

[sirlothie]

What number was Swanny drafted at again?

What number was Pendlebury drafted at? Keen observers note the kids got something not many others do.

 

[Good_Old]

Marvel stadium track is a bit rough.

I wonder if we flirt with the idea of putting Checkers in the backline out of necessity for a couple of weeks to let Shaz build in the VFL a little more.

Out: Howe
Checkers back
In: Daicos

 

[Scodog10]

Short memories out there. Scharenberg was a pick 6 for a reason. He has an edge in class on most defenders. His body has failed him but he can pick off incoming balls with ease and is safe as houses with his disposal. If he can get a clear run he's a chance to be in the James Clement mould which the other won't get to.

I’ve got no dog in the fight, but my leaning is toward your line of thinking primarily because of how down Howe has been in 2019. I’d go as far as to say that against prior year form he’s been our worst performed senior player. Others will say Thomas or Sidebottom, but for mine it’s Howe. The flipside is I can’t buy what you’re selling until we’ve seen a reasonable stretch of senior footy from Shaz.

My gut feel is that if Shaz returns in any meaningful way and Howe continues as he has in 2019 Shaz is and will remain ahead, IMO, but if Howe re-captures his form of 16-18 then he’s the superior and the situation will become trickier for the match committee. One things for certain I want to see good consistent footy from either of them before I get as absolute as some have been in this thread!

 

[Scodog10]

I think I'm a bit Shaz blind. I don't see what others do. To me, we're talking a Shaz sample size of 3 games at that level, which i still think is below what the others can and regularly do. He hasn't gone through the process of performing well and then being targetted for exploitation, which at his pace, he will go through, like Lloyd and the Dogs did with Greenwood.

That’s a different discussion then if we’re talking what others can and regularly do rather than at their best. Given we’re now having a different discussion I need to make a different argument.

We’ve so far seen Moore as a CHB for give or take a dozen games and Roughead 13 in the past five years. That to me isn’t a big enough sample size either so in that instance I would make a comparison on his entire body of work which would have him ahead of those two.

For mine, yes you’re Shaz blind, if you’re choosing to stand by your assertion that his best is below that of the guys he’s competing with. It’s without doubt on par, but I won’t be convinced we’ll see it again until we do.

 

[Robroy22]

What number was Pendlebury drafted at? Keen observers note the kids got something not many others do.

He was drafted 6 years and three knee reconstructions ago....keen observers NOTED that that kid had something. Give the BLOKE a chance mate. He's not that kid with all that potential any more. He's a bloke trying to re-start (for the fourth time) a footy career that HAD a lot of promise way back then. Yes he can read play, but does he now have the physical ability he once had? I for one am not going to be putting all the pressure of "what he once was" onto the bloke.
And if you're saying that "keen" VFL observers note that he's got something....VFL form doesn't equate to AFL now does it?

 

[Aishole]

Considering Scharenberg has never played a full season it would be pretty hard to do. I'm not going to continue trying to argue on a 2019 AFL sample size of zero but Howe has some things Shaz does not, Shaz has some things Howe does not. Let's just see how to slots back in and judge from there.

And that is exactly why Howe is better. To this stage, he has had more seasons at a higher level of performance. Thank you for proving my point

 

[sirlothie]

I’ve got no dog in the fight, but my leaning is toward your line of thinking primarily because of how down Howe has been in 2019. I’d go as far as to say that against prior year form he’s been our worst performed senior player. Others will say Thomas or Sidebottom, but for mine it’s Howe. The flipside is I can’t buy what you’re selling until we’ve seen a reasonable stretch of senior footy from Shaz.

My gut feel is that if Shaz returns in any meaningful way and Howe continues as he has in 2019 Shaz is and will remain ahead, IMO, but if Howe re-captures his form of 16-18 then he’s the superior and the situation will become trickier for the match committee. One things for certain I want to see good consistent footy from either of them before I get as absolute as some have been in this thread!

There's room for both but I am bullish on Shaz' potential more than anything. He has the perfect temperament and composure for down back, Howe I find a bit gung ho, kamikaze, act before think kind of player but Shaz is measured, thoughtful, uses the time allowed him and plays no risk footy. That's why I think potentially going forward Shaz is going to be better, if he holds up that is. I'm not saying Howe is s**t, athletically he's incredible but I'm saying Shaz has a higher ceiling.

 

[sirlothie]

He was drafted 6 years and three knee reconstructions ago....keen observers NOTED that that kid had something. Give the BLOKE a chance mate. He's not that kid with all that potential any more. He's a bloke trying to re-start (for the fourth time) a footy career that HAD a lot of promise way back then. Yes he can read play, but does he now have the physical ability he once had? I for one am not going to be putting all the pressure of "what he once was" onto the bloke.
And if you're saying that "keen" VFL observers note that he's got something....VFL form doesn't equate to AFL now does it?

Coaches noted to the group he was running at PB's in all tests before this latest comeback. He's much like Reid, some things you've always got.

 

[sirlothie]

And that is exactly why Howe is better. To this stage, he has had more seasons at a higher level of performance. Thank you for proving my point

All that matters is right now and tomorrow.

 

[Robroy22]

Coaches noted to the group he was running at PB's in all tests before this latest comeback. He's much like Reid, some things you've always got.


Oh golly....now there's a positive comparison

 

[sirlothie]

I'm not in the business of writing off players potential based on their injury history. If they are fit and playing I'll back them in. I haven't written off Wells, he's still on the list...

 

[Aishole]

All that matters is right now and tomorrow.

Right now, Schaz is 2 VFL games into a comeback from a 3rd ACL. Whats your point?

 

[timokane]

time to think outside the square with regards to selection for these next 2 matches ill bring in even:

goldsack and even
broomhead

time to give daicos a go too

 

[jmac70]

In the words of the great Pablo...

Just play him!

 

[Robroy22]

I'm not in the business of writing off players potential based on their injury history. If they are fit and playing I'll back them in. I haven't written off Wells, he's still on the list...

I'm not writing Shaz off at all mate and if we were having this discussion in another 12 months after he's got 20 or so games under his belt I'd be a lot more bullish, but we're not. He's a bloke coming off his THIRD ACL and I don't want to chuck him in too soon. Give him another 10 in the reserves and a good pre-season and then let him loose.

 

[sirlothie]

Right now, Schaz is 2 VFL games into a comeback from a 3rd ACL. Whats your point?

Right now Shaz is fit, Howe is not. Play him.

 

[sirlothie]

I'm not writing Shaz off at all mate and if we were having this discussion in another 12 months after he's got 20 or so games under his belt I'd be a lot more bullish, but we're not. He's a bloke coming off his THIRD ACL and I don't want to chuck him in too soon. Give him another 10 in the reserves and a good pre-season and then let him loose.

But it's not like VFL is a safe haven and AFL is a danger zone. Both are equally likely places to pop your knee. If a spot opens and he's in good enough form, which he is, you're not taking less risk playing him on VFL cow paddocks.

 

[BringouttheGimp]

Any hints of Schaz playing this week from the club?

 

[CFC2010]

Any hints of Schaz playing this week from the club?