Preview Changes: Preliminary Final - IN: Sloane, Otten, Melts OUT: Smith, McGovern

[marty36]

Sounds like you understand why Otten was picked ahead of Keath

Yes I understand why he was put in the team ahead of keath , do you?

Do you think it might have something to do with the fact Tex, lynch, JJ, Sauce wont play 100% of the game and need a rest or were you suggesting Milera backs up those players, the other benefit with Otten he can back up Talia, Harto not as good but still back up

Gov was clearly the back up to those forwards as he is far from teh main man and Otten will do the same

 

[Rory Walkerfield]

Somebody needs to smash dangerflog in the first contest. Set the tone. Absolutely hammer him everytime he gets it.

Just needs to be a whole game thing. Blocking his run, making him expend energy. The Crouch boys really put work into him last time.

Unfortunately the umps got sucked in and gave him and Selwood 11 frees between them when we last played.

Even Ling was was questioning half the frees they were getting.

Riley knight to be Jelwoods best friend all night too.

 

[dogs105]

Stop ******* whinging and lets get on with it! Only one thread to post in today!!!

 

[hey shorty]

He wasn't dropped for any other reason than he was not performing at an adequate level. His 2 goals, "got us a draw", spare me, he was dropped directly after that game because he was an abject liability in defence. And he got onto the end of a couple of chains in a half where we absolutely dominated the opposition. And, I repeat, was dropped. And he's in the side to replace Gov, not do a defensive job with our other 3 talls back there. This is simply a mistake, selectors have made them before with experienced players, VB, Thommo this year, and Otten is just the most recent. He provides no pressure and any player who is being pressured by him knows that all they have to do is move their legs and they're away. He makes us a worse side this evening, the question is by how much and will it be enough to cost us the game. It's hard to judge, even in hindsight, because what will inevitably happen is that his 12 touches and 1 or 2 goals will look ok next to the next worse player or even Gov's likely statistical output. Then there'll be the, "well, he was obviously the next best 3rd tall heighted player, so who else could have come in ahead based on those metrics?". But the problem will be what happens when the ball hits the deck or we concede a mark in our forward line. Geelong's movement forward will tell the story. If our mids can handle the pressure around the contest and feed to outside players who have time and space to deliver, it might not matter at all. But if the stoppage is hotly contested and we revert to bombing forward, as has happened often in the past, then we will need players who can get to the drop of the ball quickly and be useful on the deck. Otten is neither of these, but yes, if we can deliver to our forwards with precision because we're well on top in the midfield, then Otto will likely have a decent game. Although, during the weeks before being sent back to the 2's, he was getting his hands to the ball in the air quite well, but dropping plenty of those marking opportunities.

Hampton would have been the better replacement, he's played in defence with GWS, he can help out the midfield if we're struggling there, he can catch the football and he can run fast, tackle and provide defensive pressure. Outside of the big leap, he brings pretty well most of what our structure is missing this week with Gov's hammy problem.

He's also played 2 games in 16 weeks.

I wanted him in and I'm sure it was a close run thing but Otten is who we've gone with and the lack of support is ridiculous

 

[1970crow]

Geelong are equally as tall as we are. Stanley, Hawkins, Taylor, Lonergan and Henderson.

The melts on this board are hilarious and disgraceful. It's the day of our prelim final and we've spent pages talking about ****ing selection

Yeh, because height is the only factor? My goodness, there's some bathwater drinkers around these parts. Are you really suggesting that because players are similar heights then they bring the same attributes to a game of football? Explain to me in playing styles how Mitch and Otto are similar. What is that these 2 players have in common? And if you're not interested in discussing selection, then just come in and post your hoorahs and the * the hell off to another thread.

 

[Pilchard_Adams]

Not sure Menegola has won any club B and Fs yet or been in the all Australian squad like Dougie.
Douglas has been a fantastic 200 game player for this club and is playing at his peak this year with more midfield time. I've never understood why he is so undervalued by our supporters. He's been loyal when others haven't, his courage is undoubted and his disposal has always been excellent. His 5 minutes 2 weeks ago when GWS had kicked the first 3 goals of the third quarter was exceptional and I'm certainly confident of him not letting us down tomorrow.

Oh I've never said Douglas is a bad player. He has never been my whipping boy, and has been quite decent this year. I just think Menegola has been slightly better than Douglas this season.

 

[spexau]

My take on the Otten inclusion is that we want them to keep all 3 of Longergan, Taylor and Henderson in the backline and accountable. Lynch will basically play as a midfielder with Betts, Cameron and Knight applying the f50 pressure.

 

[marty36]

Yeh, because height is the only factor? My goodness, there's some bathwater drinkers around these parts. Are you really suggesting that because players are similar heights then they bring the same attributes to a game of football? Explain to me in playing styles how Mitch and Otto are similar. What is that these 2 players have in common? And if you're not interested in discussing selection, then just come in and post your hoorahs and the **** the hell off to another thread.

Oh are you suggesting Hampton will have the ability to take a contested high mark regularly and maybe kick 2 or 3 goals, or have you got any other suggestions whilst Gov is injured that can do that. This is what forwards do foremost then secondly apply pressure, if you cant do step one it really doesnt matter on step two unless you would like a forward line that isnt capable of slotting them through

 

[AndysOtters]

He wasn't dropped for any other reason than he was not performing at an adequate level. His 2 goals, "got us a draw", spare me, he was dropped directly after that game because he was an abject liability in defence. And he got onto the end of a couple of chains in a half where we absolutely dominated the opposition. And, I repeat, was dropped. And he's in the side to replace Gov, not do a defensive job with our other 3 talls back there. This is simply a mistake, selectors have made them before with experienced players, VB, Thommo this year, and Otten is just the most recent. He provides no pressure and any player who is being pressured by him knows that all they have to do is move their legs and they're away. He makes us a worse side this evening, the question is by how much and will it be enough to cost us the game. It's hard to judge, even in hindsight, because what will inevitably happen is that his 12 touches and 1 or 2 goals will look ok next to the next worse player or even Gov's likely statistical output. Then there'll be the, "well, he was obviously the next best 3rd tall heighted player, so who else could have come in ahead based on those metrics?". But the problem will be what happens when the ball hits the deck or we concede a mark in our forward line. Geelong's movement forward will tell the story. If our mids can handle the pressure around the contest and feed to outside players who have time and space to deliver, it might not matter at all. But if the stoppage is hotly contested and we revert to bombing forward, as has happened often in the past, then we will need players who can get to the drop of the ball quickly and be useful on the deck. Otten is neither of these, but yes, if we can deliver to our forwards with precision because we're well on top in the midfield, then Otto will likely have a decent game. Although, during the weeks before being sent back to the 2's, he was getting his hands to the ball in the air quite well, but dropping plenty of those marking opportunities.

Hampton would have been the better replacement, he's played in defence with GWS, he can help out the midfield if we're struggling there, he can catch the football and he can run fast, tackle and provide defensive pressure. Outside of the big leap, he brings pretty well most of what our structure is missing this week with Gov's hammy problem.

"This is simply a mistake"?

Tell me again how you know better then the coaching panel and Don Pyke (who is up for coach of the year).
What were those coaching credentials again?

You really think the coaches just went "Oh we have a tall fwd out we need to replace him with another tall fwd, oh that's Otten, done and done".

Also, you don't think at any stage he'll play on Menzel like round 18? He kept Menzel to 4 touches.

I understand you don't agree with the selection, but they've made it so be a real supporter and get behind him!
If you really want to tow this line wait till after the game and you can comment all you want on his performance, I get the feeling you might be eating humble pie.

 

[1970crow]

WHo is the simple one, Gov cant run he has a hammy it hurts when you stretch it a little and means you actually cant play a game, which is why Otten is coming in as you said Gov rolls through JJ, Lynch and Tex's position

So that is what Otten will do along with going through ruck and if required down back, he has great flexability which is why his was their forst choice for such a roll, whilst Gov was injured

So I presume that he plays ahead of Gov next week to relieve in the ruck and provide the flexibility that Gov doesn't? Ok, so yesterday before selection you posted.

I agree, I would play otten for Lynch, Tex and JJ, Gov is a bits of player not that consistent and could be replaced by a douglas or Greewnood and bring in Hampton or Milera.

If lynch tex or JJ were out I would be far more concerned

Otten is too slow for Govs position though

And now you disagree with your own view and prefer to play Otten. What has changed in the last 24 hours for you to change your mind? O

 

[hey shorty]

Yeh, because height is the only factor? My goodness, there's some bathwater drinkers around these parts. Are you really suggesting that because players are similar heights then they bring the same attributes to a game of football? Explain to me in playing styles how Mitch and Otto are similar. What is that these 2 players have in common? And if you're not interested in discussing selection, then just come in and post your hoorahs and the **** the hell off to another thread.

You're better than that.

I'm not comparing Otten to Mitch, I'm comparing him to our opponents, novel idea I know. Geelong have dropped 2 smalls and brought in Cockatoo and Lonergan, which gives them an extra tall over last week's side.

If we bring in Hampton or Menzel they will be dominated in the air and the rebound out of defence will happen anyway, well that would be out thinking.

I'm willing to back us in, and discuss the merits of selection after the game has been played. Again, I would have taken a risk and picked Hampton but what's done is done.

 

[1970crow]

"This is simply a mistake"?

Tell me again how you know better then the coaching panel and Don Pyke (who is up for coach of the year).
What were those coaching credentials again?

You really think the coaches just went "Oh we have a tall fwd out we need to replace him with another tall fwd, oh that's Otten, done and done".

Also, you don't think at any stage he'll play on Menzel like round 18? He kept Menzel to 4 touches.

I understand you don't agree with the selection, but they've made it so be a real supporter and get behind him!
If you really want to tow this line wait till after the game and you can comment all you want on his performance, I get the feeling you might be eating humble pie.

Do you think selectors always get it right? This is the exact same group that went with VB ahead of Hartigan in round 1 last year against a tall Roos forward line. How about playing injured players in the semi against the Swans last year, players that could barely hobble. And piss off with your real supporter bullshit, I'm pissed off about this because playing Otten reduces the likelihood of the other 21 earning entry to the big dance. That's real support, actual passion, so piss off with that bullshit. You're just like that clown from last year that actually posted that they'd prefer to lose a GF with Thommo being selected even if we they knew that we'd win without him. The team is bigger than 1 player and I hope Otto has a great game, but he won't because he was in s**t form before being dropped and has done nothing to earn a recall based on that. And do you really think that he's in the side to play down back on Menzel with Talia, Hartigan and Lever all down there as well? Jesus, I don't know what's worse, him replacing Gov as an electric forward or returning to the part of the field he was banished from, resulting in his dropping and teaming up with the other 3 talls. There's really no way to wrap this up as anything other than stupidity and what's worse is that if there's an injury tonight, Otten will remain regardless of who it is because no other players would have played enough in the last 1 week to replace him. As we enter tonight, we've got 23 live options for selection if we win through to next week. And Otten will be diabolical on the MCG on a warm afternoon, as he was last time he was there.

 

[1970crow]

You're better than that.

I'm not comparing Otten to Mitch, I'm comparing him to our opponents, novel idea I know. Geelong have dropped 2 smalls and brought in Cockatoo and Lonergan, which gives them an extra tall over last week's side.

If we bring in Hampton or Menzel they will be dominated in the air and the rebound out of defence will happen anyway, well that would be out thinking.

I'm willing to back us in, and discuss the merits of selection after the game has been played. Again, I would have taken a risk and picked Hampton but what's done is done.

I'm actually not better than that. If we get dominated in the air it's because we're bombing long into our forward line and if we're doing that, having a treacle slow Andy Otten trying to get to the contest isn't going to be helpful at all. In our loss to Geelong this year they took a grand total of 8 contested marks, 2 per quarter. That's not a meaningful amount, but the 92 to 60 differences in total marks very much is. Our problem was that our forwards weren't able to get to the fall of the ball, being a contested marking beast doesn't help that, being able to cover the ground and at least make a contest does. Otto doesn't provide that, he only has value if we're getting the ball into the forward line with a degree of precision because he will be outpaced when it comes to getting to a haphazardly delivered ball. We just need to hope that we are well on top at the midfield contest and getting the ball outside to players who can deliver, because if we're not, Otto makes us significantly worse both in terms of gaining possession and then with his inability to provide any pressure on an opponent with it.

 

[hey shorty]

That I agree with, and that's why I think it's a mistake. There's a finite window with which he works into the structure and we are banking on our midfield and guys like Seeds and Cameron get clean ball into our forward half...... well maybe not Charlie as he will spray the pill.

I personally think they've picked the easiest player to drop

 

[marty36]

So I presume that he plays ahead of Gov next week to relieve in the ruck and provide the flexibility that Gov doesn't? Ok, so yesterday before selection you posted.



And now you disagree with your own view and prefer to play Otten. What has changed in the last 24 hours for you to change your mind? O

Yes I wanted Hampton in so Greenwood and douglas could roll throough and kick goals, but I can see why the selectors have gone otten as they dont want to lose Greenwood and douglass out of the mid.

What is lighter on, our mid or Forward line, with the best forward line in the league that question answers itself, so the coaching staff are obviously concerned in weakening the mid which is why otten has been picked

 

[AndysOtters]

Do you think selectors always get it right? This is the exact same group that went with VB ahead of Hartigan in round 1 last year against a tall Roos forward line. How about playing injured players in the semi against the Swans last year, players that could barely hobble. And piss off with your real supporter bullshit, I'm pissed off about this because playing Otten reduces the likelihood of the other 21 earning entry to the big dance. That's real support, actual passion, so piss off with that bullshit. You're just like that clown from last year that actually posted that they'd prefer to lose a GF with Thommo being selected even if we they knew that we'd win without him. The team is bigger than 1 player and I hope Otto has a great game, but he won't because he was in s**t form before being dropped and has done nothing to earn a recall based on that. And do you really think that he's in the side to play down back on Menzel with Talia, Hartigan and Lever all down there as well? Jesus, I don't know what's worse, him replacing Gov as an electric forward or returning to the part of the field he was banished from, resulting in his dropping and teaming up with the other 3 talls. There's really no way to wrap this up as anything other than stupidity and what's worse is that if there's an injury tonight, Otten will remain regardless of who it is because no other players would have played enough in the last 1 week to replace him. As we enter tonight, we've got 23 live options for selection if we win through to next week. And Otten will be diabolical on the MCG on a warm afternoon, as he was last time he was there.

Oh that's right of course how could I forget, you credentials far exceed theirs, that's why your coaching a team in the preliminary finals.

You also forget this is the same coaching panel that got us here innthe first place, so they must be doing something right!

We don't want supporters like you at the club. How about I come to your workplace and tell you how rubbish and utterly incapable you are.

You are condemning the poor man before he's even had a chance to show his worth in the game tonight.

And yes, I do see him spending time in defence on Menzel, with Taylor, Danger, Hawkins and a resting Smith all in there. You realise Lever normally plays loose 3rd man right?

Far out you are a flog and I'm sure every supporter in here would be happier without your negativity in a thread where all the loyal fans are here to back their team no matter what. They don't call them "supporters" for nothing.

Oh and learn what a paragraph is, most of us did in grade 4

 

[Jeffcrowe]

No chance Kelly stands Danger


On iPhone using BigFooty.com mobile app

Much bigger chance than your boy Lever

It's Harto / or Kelly >>>>>> Lever

 

[Jeffcrowe]

So they have Stewart and Cockatoo with risks over their heads.. imagine one or both of them pinging in the first qtr!!

We are due for that to happen against us for once, we always seem to be the ones losing one early.

Any more word on Greenwood?? Assume that he is named he will be on the field. We don't play many games with selection, also hope his body is right, need him fit and not at 70-80%

Greenwood has been nursed for weeks , hence the not playing at subi thing

Nothing new with his program , he needs another pre season to be in full training and minutes

Scary really

 

[Elite Crow]

Yes I understand why he was put in the team ahead of keath , do you?

Do you think it might have something to do with the fact Tex, lynch, JJ, Sauce wont play 100% of the game and need a rest or were you suggesting Milera backs up those players, the other benefit with Otten he can back up Talia, Harto not as good but still back up

Gov was clearly the back up to those forwards as he is far from teh main man and Otten will do the same

So you understand why Otten was selected ahead of Keath and it has nothing to do with your glowing assessment of Keath.

 

[Tex200]

I'm actually not better than that. If we get dominated in the air it's because we're bombing long into our forward line and if we're doing that, having a treacle slow Andy Otten trying to get to the contest isn't going to be helpful at all. In our loss to Geelong this year they took a grand total of 8 contested marks, 2 per quarter. That's not a meaningful amount, but the 92 to 60 differences in total marks very much is. Our problem was that our forwards weren't able to get to the fall of the ball, being a contested marking beast doesn't help that, being able to cover the ground and at least make a contest does. Otto doesn't provide that, he only has value if we're getting the ball into the forward line with a degree of precision because he will be outpaced when it comes to getting to a haphazardly delivered ball. We just need to hope that we are well on top at the midfield contest and getting the ball outside to players who can deliver, because if we're not, Otto makes us significantly worse both in terms of gaining possession and then with his inability to provide any pressure on an opponent with it.

Rather than look at what hasn't worked during their run of wins over us, it's more instructive to look at what did work when we actually beat them last time.

We resisted kicking long balls to a contest, although our talls continued to provide that option to keep the defence accountable. Instead, space was opened up higher in the 50, and our mids were able to run forward and capitalise.

Douglas kicked 4 and Sloane 3. The star studded forward line kicked 3 between them.

If we go back to that well, and I think we will, Otten is the necessary replacement to provide another tall option which keeps them accountable.

If they have learned from that experience, the defence will know they won't be able to sit back all night which may suck them up the ground a little - just enough to bring the talls back into play.

Either way Otten was, structurally, the right replacement.

 

[Elite Crow]

No chance Kelly stands Danger


On iPhone using BigFooty.com mobile app

Kelly played on Danger during the last game

 

[Jeffcrowe]

Actually you can't, that would be your bias shining through.

I explained it, Otten is clearly going to play up forward and Keath hasn't at AFL, but if Hartigan was to get injured based on Keath being preferred to Otten in defence, Keath would come in.

As for pooing his pants, go watch the Geelong game again. Keath won some very important one on ones against Taylor and Taylor kicked a couple of goals on Otten.

Exactly , if Keath had been exposed forward by now he'd be firmly in the mix

It's an experience thing

One thing for sure , choosing Otten isn't gonna be the diff between winning and losing

So everyone just get on with it , Gov is a big loss but them are the cards

 

[subaru]

Glad Otten is in.
Just watching last match on Fox
I had forgotten how in their faces our boys were !

Riley Knight won't need any extra motivation. Talia Tex Kelly Dougie even Sauce .... ha! Fantastic !

 

[spexau]

Glad Otten is in.
Just watching last match on Fox
I had forgotten how in their faces our boys were !

Riley Knight won't need any extra motivation. Talia Tex Kelly Dougie even Sauce .... ha! Fantastic !

Yeah if we bring the aggression and pressure we did last time it'll go along way to a GF berth.

 

[Bob Neil]

Who will be our second ruck tonight - Jenkins or Otten or a mix of the two?

Massive game for Jenkins - he really needs to be the wildcard and use his pace and athleticism to make Lonergan, Henderson or Taylor accountable.