Preview Changes/Preview – Round 23 v Hawthorn

[Lampers]

What's weird is picking a bloke purely based on the amount he's paid for a role he was clearly terrible at and not giving Schache a go to begin with

I don’t mind Grundy’s selection predominantly as a forward IF at VFL level and training he was showing genuine signs he could be effective in the role.

Obviously none of us see Grundy at training but his VFL form as a forward didn’t look great.

So it does look more like a selection as you say based on factors other than form or ability.

Conditions were rubbish for good tall forwards against Carlton on Saturday let alone someone like Grundy.

Conditions are meant to be good Sunday and Hawthorn have a bog ordinary tall defence after Sicily.

Grundy won’t get a better chance to show something as a forward at AFL level. If he plays and is ineffective that’s got to be the end of that experiment. Too close to finals to keep playing around.

Assuming Grundy is selected and stinks it up I’d rather they then cut their losses and go with Schache. You know Schache won’t be out there crashing packs, but you do know he will run all day, lead at good times with good patterns, and probably convert most of his chances.

 

[stEdy]

I have more faith in Chandler to create a contest in the air than Schache.

Brayshaw playing like Cotchin-lite at the moment. Some great attack on the footy and man. Doing all the smothers/pressure acts/harassment and quick hands to the outside that our midfield needs. He plays better when he's just rolling on instinct.

 

[mrmonkey]

I don’t mind Grundy’s selection predominantly as a forward IF at VFL level and training he was showing genuine signs he could be effective in the role.

Obviously none of us see Grundy at training but his VFL form as a forward didn’t look great.

So it does look more like a selection as you say based on factors other than form or ability.

Conditions were rubbish for good tall forwards against Carlton on Saturday let alone someone like Grundy.

Conditions are meant to be good Sunday and Hawthorn have a bog ordinary tall defence after Sicily.

Grundy won’t get a better chance to show something as a forward at AFL level. If he plays and is ineffective that’s got to be the end of that experiment. Too close to finals to keep playing around.

Assuming Grundy is selected and stinks it up I’d rather they then cut their losses and go with Schache. You know Schache won’t be out there crashing packs, but you do know he will run all day, lead at good times with good patterns, and probably convert most of his chances.

I was thinking the same thing would be interesting if they dropped Grundy for a game that would suit him better than when they selected him.

 

[LarryDavidNeitz]

No one will be happier about this than LarryDavidNeitz

Over the moon. Clearly selecting a VFL standard 3 club journeyman on an extended bench for a Sunday game against the 16th-placed team is the inevitable beginning of a golden era for the MFC.

 

[DemonZombie_001]

I have more faith in Chandler to create a contest in the air than Schache.

Brayshaw playing like Cotchin-lite at the moment. Some great attack on the footy and man. Doing all the smothers/pressure acts/harassment and quick hands to the outside that our midfield needs. He plays better when he's just rolling on instinct.

I always found him to be a very high IQ footballer but his disposal by foot does let him down more often than not (which is not great in the half back area). This role he is playing now is the role for him, I feel, as it lets him utilise those football smarts. I think someone mentioned previously he is the best defensive mid over the last six weeks.

I also think his moving away from the HB area has opened up a world of possibilities for Rivers who seems to be having a bit of a break out season.

 

[BaliDemon]

I don’t mind Grundy’s selection predominantly as a forward IF at VFL level and training he was showing genuine signs he could be effective in the role.

Obviously none of us see Grundy at training but his VFL form as a forward didn’t look great.

So it does look more like a selection as you say based on factors other than form or ability.

Conditions were rubbish for good tall forwards against Carlton on Saturday let alone someone like Grundy.

Conditions are meant to be good Sunday and Hawthorn have a bog ordinary tall defence after Sicily.

Grundy won’t get a better chance to show something as a forward at AFL level. If he plays and is ineffective that’s got to be the end of that experiment. Too close to finals to keep playing around.

Assuming Grundy is selected and stinks it up I’d rather they then cut their losses and go with Schache. You know Schache won’t be out there crashing packs, but you do know he will run all day, lead at good times with good patterns, and probably convert most of his chances.

Being very generous, vs Carlton was a last gasp opportunity to tinker with Grundy in the side and it yet again proved a miserable failure.

That loss now means vs Hawthorn becomes a cut-throat must win game. Lose and we will likely have to beat Sydney at the SCG in the last h/a game to retain top four and any hope of a premiership. Sydney for their part will likely be playing for a chance to make the eight. Don’t know about you but I don’t like that scenario at all.

No matter what the conditions, if we pick Grundy to play again knowing unequivocally how bad it is for team structure and how badly it affects Gawn’s output, then Pert should ask everyone on the match committee to hand in their resignations tomorrow.

Schache is not Allen Jakovich but he was recruited as a forward, has played and trained all year as a forward and may just be good enough for a couple of sneaky goals and assists in a game which might be tighter than a lot of people think. Beggars can’t be choosers. With the key forward cupboard this bare it’s time to play the big goofball.

 

[melbun]

Grundy is a proven dead weight around the neck of the team when Max is playing. He is keeping someone who might kick a goal or two out of the team.
How long before our selectors realize this?

 

[melbun]

Re: Brayshaw, I don't see the much value in someone who performs a great midfield get and then pokes the ball down the throat of the opposition. Why not just give them the ball at first encounter?

 

[Tulip]

I still don’t get the naming of Schache in the extended squad.

If the match committee had faith in Schache at AFL level then there’s been several times earlier in the year when he should’ve played.

That would’ve either proved he had what it takes, or proved the opposite.

But when Schache was in form and there was a spot open, they didn’t play him.

Similar deal with Laurie.

Why would virtually untried players this year be expected to all of a sudden come into the team with finals just around the corner and contribute in a meaningful way?

It’s just weird selection to me. Even if they end up as emergencies on game day.

More likely because Petty, Brown and McDonald are all either injured or not match fit and they want to play a second KPF while Fritsch is out. Schache doing a good job at VFL level and a very capable back up ruck. He should be playing as a decoy in the seniors and taking the second ruck role so JVR can stay forward. Not saying he’s a good player, I’d feel the same about Weid if we were in this predicament and he was still on the list.

 

[A11dAtP0w3R]

Over the moon. Clearly selecting a VFL standard 3 club journeyman on an extended bench for a Sunday game against the 16th-placed team is the inevitable beginning of a golden era for the MFC.

I'd rather we didn't play the second tall
forward at all, but if we are going to Schache provides the best relief in ruck out of the three KPFs available and is mobile enough to not weigh us down and keep some unpredictability with ball movement when going forward ie: I think the team would function far better.

 

[Topkent]

I'd rather we didn't play the second tall
forward at all, but if we are going to Schache provides the best relief in ruck out of the three KPFs available and is mobile enough to not weigh us down and keep some unpredictability with ball movement. ie: I think the team would function far better.

Yeah Schache can move, even if it's just out of the way. Something the other donkeys can't do

 

[Lord Nev]

I still don’t get the naming of Schache in the extended squad.

If the match committee had faith in Schache at AFL level then there’s been several times earlier in the year when he should’ve played.

That would’ve either proved he had what it takes, or proved the opposite.

But when Schache was in form and there was a spot open, they didn’t play him.

Similar deal with Laurie.

Why would virtually untried players this year be expected to all of a sudden come into the team with finals just around the corner and contribute in a meaningful way?

It’s just weird selection to me. Even if they end up as emergencies on game day.

Just a hunch - But reckon Grundy plays for Casey and Schache is an emergency. Would make sense given both TMac and Brown are playing VFL.

 

[LarryDavidNeitz]

I'd rather we didn't play the second tall
forward at all, but if we are going to Schache provides the best relief in ruck out of the three KPFs available and is mobile enough to not weigh us down and keep some unpredictability with ball movement when going forward ie: I think the team would function far better.

If your comparison is with Brown, TMac, Jefferson etc then yes your point about Schache being able to pinch hit in the ruck is valid. The problem is Brown and Tmac have absolutely 0% capacity to contribute in that area.

But Schache has a long history as a non-competitive forward and contest player. People have rainbow-coloured Schache glasses on just because he hasn't been playing seniors. Bit like how this board will rage on for pages at James Jordon for not being AFL standard and then throw up Dunstan as a possible in.

I'm just here to remind everyone that no matter how legitimately sick of Brown and Grundy you are, Schache is more than capable of being worse.

 

[Topkent]

If your comparison is with Brown, TMac, Jefferson etc then yes your point about Schache being able to pinch hit in the ruck is valid. The problem is Brown and Tmac have absolutely 0% capacity to contribute in that area.

But Schache has a long history as a non-competitive forward and contest player. People have rainbow-coloured Schache glasses on just because he hasn't been playing seniors. Bit like how this board will rage on for pages at James Jordon for not being AFL standard and then throw up Dunstan as a possible in.

I'm just here to remind everyone that no matter how legitimately sick of Brown and Grundy you are, Schache is more than capable of being worse.

C'mon mate like one guy said Dunstan.

 

[A11dAtP0w3R]

Im just here to remind everyone that no matter how legitimately sick of Brown and Grundy you are, Schache is more than capable of being worse.

Youre still missing my point, this isn't a "who is a better player" this is a "who doesnt bring down players around him and allows the team play a better brand of football"

 

[LarryDavidNeitz]

C'mon mate like one guy said Dunstan.

Na more than one. Extreme example yes, but my point is that people get infuriated with underperforming players in the seniors but forget that those players are still significantly better than the list cloggers who are so bad they can't even get a game when we're desperate for someone to fill the exact position they play.

I mean the reason put forward for picking Schache here today are a) he can get out of the other forwards way better than Brown, Tmac or Grundy and b) he can (maybe) fill in for a minute or two at a time in the ruck. Those are seriously dire reasons to pick someone in the ones and are why I'd still prefer Grundy than Schache, although neither is better for this week at least.

 

[Lord Nev]

Re: Schache

Brown and TMac are playing VFL, Grundy quite possibly is also. Goody would want all 3 playing as many minutes as possible to test them out etc. Given the VFL and AFL games are both on Sunday, this means Scache is a logical emergency in terms of making space, but also being there in case we have a key tall injury.

 

[LarryDavidNeitz]

Youre still missing my point, this isn't a "who is better" this is a "who makes our team play a better brand of football"

No I do understand your point. I just don't agree that Schache is going to help us play a better brand.

I'll be more than happy to have egg on my face come the end of September, but I'd take the 1% chance Grundy suddenly clicks than the 0.001% chance that Schache is the answer to us playing a better game style.

 

[A11dAtP0w3R]

Nobody has rainbow coloured Schache glasses on, its just a bit of fun. Its simply comparing 4 lumps of shit and choosing the one who will make us stink the least.

 

[Topkent]

No I do understand your point. I just don't agree that Schache is going to help us play a better brand.

I'll be more than happy to have egg on my face come the end of September, but I'd take the 1% chance Grundy suddenly clicks than the 0.001% chance that Schache is the answer to us playing a better game style.

Yeah I think you're going a bit far with this but also completely disagree. Schache has a mile better chance of clicking than Grundy. Grundy sucks

 

[LarryDavidNeitz]

Nobody has rainbow coloured Schache glasses on, its just a bit of fun. Its simply comparing 4 lumps of s**t and choosing the one who will make us stink the least.

Disappointing, I thought you were dead serious about him kicking 7 in the grand final.

 

[A11dAtP0w3R]

Disappointing, I thought you were dead serious about him kicking 7 in the grand final.

If it happens you better believe I will quote myself like I was.

 

[LarryDavidNeitz]

Yeah I think you're going a bit far with this but also completely disagree. Schache has a mile better chance of clicking than Grundy. Grundy sucks

Let's agree to disagree then, because I maintain that no matter how bad Grundy is going he will never ever suck worse than Schache.

Anyway most likely Tommo comes in for Grundy and it works fine against the Hawks.

 

[LarryDavidNeitz]

If it happens you better believe I will quote myself like I was.

Fair enough too

 

[BaliDemon]

No I do understand your point. I just don't agree that Schache is going to help us play a better brand.

I'll be more than happy to have egg on my face come the end of September, but I'd take the 1% chance Grundy suddenly clicks than the 0.001% chance that Schache is the answer to us playing a better game style.

Grundy has had 17 games to show his wares in 2023 and has stunk like a bum’s nutsack in most of them. Worse than that he completely throws Gawn off his natural game, making the whole team play worse as a unit.

Schache was given 1 measly game earlier in the season. If Grundy can be afforded such largesse in terms of chances why not Schache who was actually recruited as key forward?

It’s worth remembering the words of Nathan Buckley here, Grundy’s coach for a decade (which for some bizarre unknown reason our list manager didn’t listen to): “Brodie Grundy is not a forward and NEVER WILL BE”.