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[Caracas]

But what did he do for the entire game, other than 4 goal assists? Not to mention that one of those assists, the handball to Brown was absolutely lucky, as he fumbled the ball in a typical soft effort, only for the ball to miraculously come back to him which he gave to Brown with a short handball - hardly a genius assist that one.

This is even more damning for Ahern, who managed to accumulate two less possessions than Hrovat - and he was playing in the middle.


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[Kimbo]

This shapes as an interesting match.

They are a relatively young side, playing good solid footy, and are following up on their home patch after winning away against a side in the top 8.

Will this week be the point where they stop to sniff their own farts, as young sides on the rise tend to do?

They're not that young.

 

[Tas]

Jamie Macmillan has been a slightly better than average 1v1 defender at AFL level for his entire career and remains so.

Scott Thompson is no longer a good AFL defender.

Shaun Atley is not a particularly good defender but has become a relatively dependable user of the ball at either end.

I’ve defended Luke McDonald here in the depths of his whipping boy days but the fact that He has recovered all the way back to mostly competent is a pretty damning indictment of how bad it had gotten. Have people started reclassifying his goofy grins as grimaces and are now convinced he’s trying?

Majak made his mark as an interceptor rather than strictly man-on-man defender and there’s not enough sample size to draw any conclusions.

People find this hard to believe I know, but Jamie Macmillan gets picked because he’s a good footballer. He’s better than McDonald, Wright, Murphy, Crocker, Watson, and statistically almost indistinguishable from Jasper Pittard.

I am not a MacMillan hater, I think he has been critical for our rebound out of defensive 50, but his 1-on-1 work which I referred to is below average for a defender. It is something he needs to improve on.

I've been very critical of McDonald because I know he is capable of a lot more than he has shown in the past, I think he is much improved but yeah, for some reason he struggles with the high ball.

I'd definitely prefer Atley as a half forward.

Maj was more than just a good intercept mark, he was elite in killing contests as well. Small sample size for sure, but he went from zero to elite in a flash.

I think MacMillan gets unfairly potted, like people will bag him when he has had a good game, but you can't gloss over some of the costly defensive flaws and say they don't exist or are figment of someone's imagination because what we saw last week wasn't an illusion.

 

[TennisPlayerAndy]

This shapes as an interesting match.

They are a relatively young side, playing good solid footy, and are following up on their home patch after winning away against a side in the top 8.

Will this week be the point where they stop to sniff their own farts, as young sides on the rise tend to do?

They're actually the sixth oldest going around.

They're right where they should be.

 

[pupstar]

hahaha he has pics lol omgz hilarious.

Or... how many footy people with strong credentials are going to come through this joint and not drop Jmac before you decide its no longer a conspiracy? Do you honestly think that Shaw is not dropping him because he has photos or do you think there might be another explanation? (such as he's doing what is being asked of him)

Thanks mate saved me a reply.

 

[pupstar]

I am not a MacMillan hater, I think he has been critical for our rebound out of defensive 50, but his 1-on-1 work which I referred to is below average for a defender. It is something he needs to improve on.

I've been very critical of McDonald because I know he is capable of a lot more than he has shown in the past, I think he is much improved but yeah, for some reason he struggles with the high ball.

I'd definitely prefer Atley as a half forward.

Maj was more than just a good intercept mark, he was elite in killing contests as well. Small sample size for sure, but he went from zero to elite in a flash.

I think MacMillan gets unfairly potted, like people will bag him when he has had a good game, but you can't gloss over some of the costly defensive flaws and say they don't exist or are figment of someone's imagination because what we saw last week wasn't an illusion.

You are right mate they do exist in Jmac and every other player but my problem is poor old Jmac seems to get noticed all the time and others don't even get a mention from the anti Jmac mob.

 

[Firestarter]

You are right mate they do exist in Jmac and every other player but my problem is poor old Jmac seems to get noticed all the time and others don't even get a mention from the anti Jmac mob.

In my opinion it's less that and more the mentality that he never does anything right.

Then he does something good and it's "but he doesn't blah blah" or the old "what's he done for me lately?" routine. I wish I had the muscles to move goalposts.

Not exclusive to Macmillan of course.

 

[RobZombie]

This LDU stuff has a Paganesque ring to it - good Luke, now do it again.

Shaw demonstrating to LDU that sort of performance won't be rewarded when it is a one off, it will be rewarded when it is his standard.

LDU has a career making summer ahead + he buys into what Rhys has got and it will make him a truly top end player.

The other side of the same coin is Hrovat. If Scamper is putting a new focus on upholding standards, then Hrovat strikes me as the sort of player who despite his physical limitations does all he can to uphold standards. His tackle numbers aren't great but his pressure acts are high. He made his disposals count last week. He toiled away in the twos without complaining until he got the call. Regardless of whether his papers are stamped I've got no problem with him getting a few games on that basis.

 

[shintemaster]

In my opinion it's less that and more the mentality that he never does anything right.

Then he does something good and it's "but he doesn't blah blah" or the old "what's he done for me lately?" routine. I wish I had the muscles to move goalposts.

Not exclusive to Macmillan of course.

There's some unhealthy levels of judgement with him going on but let's not beat around the bush, he's an average defender and this year in particular his disposal has been very non damaging. That can be gameplan, form, teammates further up the field letting him down or whatever but when you're an average defender that rebounds with attack you are going to live or die by the sword. I don't rate his work with ball in hand this year and I don't particularly care whether some find that unfair. He's not the only player that has played games that I've been disappointed with but he is certainly one of the most senior. He might just be having an average year - like our ex coach - so be it, but he'd want to improve from this base IMO.

FWIW can't complain about his effort levels. He's working hard, I just think a lot of little things aren't working that well for him.

 

[Tas]

You are right mate they do exist in Jmac and every other player but my problem is poor old Jmac seems to get noticed all the time and others don't even get a mention from the anti Jmac mob.

Yeah, he does cop it a lot more than others. His flaws are a lot more obvious, like leaving Tippa on his own close to goal, those kind of errors stick out like dog's balls, harder to tell when a defender spoils back into the corridor in front of goal, both are horrendous errors, but it takes more nuance to understand the killing of contests in front of goal.

 

[RobZombie]

I am not a MacMillan hater, I think he has been critical for our rebound out of defensive 50, but his 1-on-1 work which I referred to is below average for a defender.

No he's not.

It is something he needs to improve on.

Of course. Every player needs to improve. And since he's only about average he's got more room to improve than some better defenders.

let's not beat around the bush, he's an average defender

As in not below average. He doesn't lose contests more often than average defenders, he just looks worse doing it.

 

[Del191229]

But what did he do for the entire game, other than 4 goal assists? Not to mention that one of those assists, the handball to Brown was absolutely lucky, as he fumbled the ball in a typical soft effort, only for the ball to miraculously come back to him which he gave to Brown with a short handball - hardly a genius assist that one.

As I said, earlier - if Rhys has gone to him and said "Nathan, 50 per cent of your game was elite, the numbers back it up, but you weren't hard enough in this, this, this contest, you're in next week and I expect you to deliver that same elite level of ball delivery but if you don't go hard when its your turn, then back to the twoies for you" the I am 100 per cent fine with that approach.

What if right, Rhys actually develops Hrovat into a top notch player. Bloke was a relatively early pick (21/22 from memory) and there's no doubting his skills or his pace.

Build his confidence, put him as part of a forward unit that loves cracking in, and hey, if he starts cracking in too, we've got a real player here.

 

[Tas]

No he's not.

I am not trying to convince you to change your opinion, just stating my own opinion. You think I am wrong, I think the vast majority would lean closer to me, doesn't necessarily mean popular opinion is right, but it is what it is. We played our best team defensive footy when he was absent, you would think that you would miss someone who was a better one-on-one competitor.

Of course. Every player needs to improve. And since he's only about average he's got more room to improve than some better defenders.

Not everyone improves, or improves enough.

If it was left up to the one-eyed supporters, we would never move on anyone and we would never again challenge for a flag. A lot has to go right even if you do everything you can possibly do as a club to succeed, every thing you do which compromises your ability to succeed is just an extra yoke that other clubs that want to succeed are not suffering so we are handicapped every year before the first ball is bounced because we are too much of a boys club.

Our best 22 needs to be better than mediocre in their primary role if we are going to get anywhere. If you have racked up 100+ games and you are still mediocre then sure you might get better, but are you going to improve enough to make the club a contender? I can wear someone like Durdin making rookie mistakes because he is a 23 year year old key defender who has played 14 games. When someone is turning 28 and has 150+ games of experience and making the same rookie mistakes he has been making his entire career then you have to ask yourself is he going to improve enough in the period of time he has left to matter?

What we have been doing the last 20 years hasn't been working, doing more of the same is going to work? Would some of our poor defenders racked up 150+ games under Pagan or Barassi? I don't really have high expectations of the majority of our defenders but if you can't hit short range targets consistently, can't tackle, can't spoil as a defender and can't kick goals from the corridor then I am not sure what future you have a footballer at the highest level.

As in not below average. He doesn't lose contests more often than average defenders, he just looks worse doing it.

He looks bad at the basics, I don't care if he loses fewer contests than Tarrant because Tarrant picks up the best forward and the opposition goes to his man every single time. If the opposition goes to your man infrequently and you lose every contest then that makes you a lot worse than Tarrant irrespective what the stats tell you.

Rely on your eyes, stats can sometimes backup what you see if you apply them correctly.

 

[SheezNuts]

Really needs to be a "plays involved in turnover scores" stat. Jmac would top that list.

 

[Del191229]

JMac will go to Lincoln McCarthy, a very talented player in very good form, and I reckon Jamie will give him a touch up myself.

Ideal match up.

 

[Event Horizon]

You don't think this alone is an adequate return from a modern half forward?

No. Pressure is the key indicator, along with score involvements. Given that Hrovat isn't really a pressure player, providing 3 goal assists plus one lucky one is barely sufficient.

 

[Event Horizon]

This is even more damning for Ahern, who managed to accumulate two less possessions than Hrovat - and he was playing in the middle.


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100%, Ahern's game wasn't good enough.

 

[Pykie]

**** night games in QLD in winter.

Predicted low of 9 on Saturday night, the dew point likely to be around the same mark.

It will be as slippery as any wet weather game in Hobart.

 

[Del191229]

fu** night games in QLD in winter.

Predicted low of 9 on Saturday night, the dew point likely to be around the same mark.

It will be as slippery as any wet weather game in Hobart.

It'd be warm and dry in Damascus.

 

[BTRAIN2]

fu** night games in QLD in winter.

Predicted low of 9 on Saturday night, the dew point likely to be around the same mark.

It will be as slippery as any wet weather game in Hobart.

BOM says dew point at 7pm 11 and air temp 17. 10pm is 10 and 15. Shouldn't be a wet game

 

[D23D]

fu** night games in QLD in winter.

Predicted low of 9 on Saturday night, the dew point likely to be around the same mark.

It will be as slippery as any wet weather game in Hobart.

Mate it won’t be 9 degrees until about 5am. Sure it’ll be a bit slippery, but while they’re trying to grasp the pill, we’ll smash into ‘em and kick it forward

 

[Snake_Baker]

Mate it won’t be 9 degrees until about 5am. Sure it’ll be a bit slippery, but while they’re trying to grasp the pill, we’ll smash into ‘em and kick it forward

Partly cloudy/light winds = low humidity

 

[D23D]

Partly cloudy/light winds = low humidity

View attachment 711453

Ok, there it is, won’t be as duey as I thought.
Still, a cool night is much better than that unseasonable winter scorcher we had last year! I remember being at my daughters netball game in the morning at coorporoo and chatting with one of the dads, a lions member, that I was worried about the heat that day.

 

[7577969923]

The last seven teams we have played have lost their next round. Hopefully * makes it eight in a row tonight!

 

[Masked Avenger]

Rhyce & Snake: 10/10
Clueless flogs: 0/10

Stating the bleeding obvious - Snake: 10/10
Modesty - Snake: 0/10.