Preview Changes: R11 vs Collingwood

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cleanhands

Premiership Player
Aug 31, 2007
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Frankly, I want to see Adelaide win a premiership and I really don't care how we manage it providing it is legal. We have no responsibility to making the game viewable for fans, that's up to the AFL rules committee. The clubs job is to win flags.

If they're so great, they'll find a way to survive or thrive. Otherwise, bad luck, thanks for playing.
I go to watch players that don’t have to lower to that rubbish who lack the skills to make it a great game
 

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Golumless

I'm kind of a big deal on the east side
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I go to watch players that don’t have to lower to that rubbish who lack the skills to make it a great game
You might want to give up on watching finals then...

Would you call Sam Mitchell unskilled? He's up there for the the dirtiest footballer I've seen in the modern era seeing he was the face of the Hawks unsociable brand of football. The art is to be subtle about it which players like McHenry and co. will learn with experience providing there is enough to their game to survive long term (which there is in McHenry case, though he'll need a switch to midfield to do so seeing he's got an offensive tool in that side step. Needs to be locked in the gym though). Arguably they were without Kane 'eagle eye' Cornes looking long and hard for a story.

Success is about optimisation. It's certainly optimal to hinder the star player of the opposition ability to move if you can do so legally. Inevitably the path towards success is not the same as the path that leads to the best product to view.

No enjoyment out of watching McLeod, Ruccuito, Judd Martin etc
Oh there is enjoyment out of most of them. Can't say I've ever enjoyed watching Martin play the game though, but that's more due to myself really disliking Richmond and his sh*t tats.

That said, I find the Brownlow to be meaningless but a nice nod to history. It's got too many flaws for me to genuinely care about it when a Matt Priddis or Tom Mitchell wins it.

Hey guys, Keays to tag Adams or Sidebottom? Or no one at all?
No one initially would be my guess. He's been one of our better mids in the last month.
 

Golumless

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Gawn went into the match sore...you step over the line...hysterical Kornes is getting worse than Rooch.
I agree that McHenry needs to focus on getting a kick and contributing instead of being an annoying happy dog.
Up until half time, he was managing both pretty well. Was definitely in the good to very good category.

Faded badly as the team did though, however, I suppose that's the problem with being a forward on the opposite wing to the one we were stuck on.
 

jackster83

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Hey guys, Keays to tag Adams or Sidebottom? Or no one at all?
Going by last week's game, we'll swap him to whichever mid is hurting us the most, as well as freeing him up at times as he's the only player who can win a clearance for us. I'd bank on both of those two scoring in excess of 130 SC points, even if Keays plays well...
 

MrBarry

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Let’s just target the players that make this game great and turn it into unsociable footy, that’s what we want to see, not the great players in full flight
Really couldn't care less about watching 'great players in full flight' who don't play for us. I want a flag, I don't really care how we get there.
 

CrowBloke

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i completely disagree with this. Unsociable football is the only way to win a flag, and I honestly don’t care what the players do on the field, as long as we get the win. I would be happy if our players were on rotation through suspension if it means ultimate prize at the end of the year.
Did you even read this:
" If Gawn has the ball and can get crunched to the moon with a fair hip-and-shoulder, great, do it eg Doedee's tackle a coupla weeks ago. I want the Crows to be known for and feared because of fair toughness and brilliance. "?
I'm all for tough, uncompromising, hard football, treating opposition as THE enemy onfield, jostling around the ball, hard tackling, even harder bumping. I think a well-delivered hip-and-shoulder that flattens someone-with-the-ball is a thing of beauty.
I think you're talking about taking people out away from the ball and other dirty blindsiding tactics, or worse.
What did you think of Cotchin's hit on Shiel in the 2017 Prelim. which concussed one of GWS' chief playmakers early in the game? I thought it was a disgraceful late hit, intentional and high straight at the player, and he should have copped 3-4 weeks for it. Even worse, he was not suspended at all.
How about Toby Greene's habit of fending off other players in the midriff and even face, with his boot sprigs?
Or the previously mentioned Bernie Vince pestering/slapping/knocking of Dangerfield's sore hand?
In Rugby League 2001, Hopoate had an unusual way of giving opponents the finger which was extremely "unsociable". Was that ok, if it helped his team win?
Would you cheer if Brodie Smith did an Andrew Gaff and uppercut another team's rookie (Brayshaw), for an 8-week holiday? Think about Barry Hall, Dave Granger and their ilk.
Or even on a lesser scale Richmond's well-drilled ways of holding players down in packs (and Eddie in the goalsquare, Umpire unsighted, 2017 GF)? Totally illegal, right? but if it works and helps the team win (a Flag), great?
Nah, mate, not for me, and we're never going to agree on this and that's ok.
You and Golumless and PasswordisTaco and others will argue that the end --- a Flag --- justifies the means (dirty, off-the-ball, mongrel acts which you euphemise as 'unsociable'), but I can't agree. There's tough and grubby/dirty, and there's tough-but-fair. I support the latter.
I think many Crows teams have played 'nice', too nice, and we've recruited kids like Jones and Coaches like Nicks who are nice, as well. I repeat, I'd love to see our Crows being tougher and showing mongrel intent on and around the ball. Just look at the way they won the 2017 PF, tough and fair --- but not by running 20m., with the ball 60m away to take a cheap shot at Gawn last game. That's not how I'd want them to win.

Plenty of Flags have been won by teams who were tough, relentless and highly-skilled without any off-the-ball "unsociability" (eg WCE in 2018, Crows in 97/98 and never resorted to that stuff).
 
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MrBarry

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I saw the footage on Ch.9 yesterday, showing what some of the Crows did to Gawn 40/60/80 metres off the ball. Dirty tactic, not in the spirit of the game, any game; unnecessary. Smacked of Toby Greene-level dirty play.
I didn't like it, at all.
Hard to tell if this is a wind up post, or if this is Neil Craigs secret account? We have been one of the 'friendliest teams' over the last decade - it's won us 0 premierships and 0 friends. I want a team who plays hard 'unsociable football' and wins premierships.
 

MrBarry

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Just look at the way they won the 2017 PF, tough and fair
And then what happened a week later....?

In the Richmond game, if we had players who were capable of playing 'unsociable football' - one tactic to change the game when it was getting out of our hands would have been to line up someone like Martin and take him out the game. Yes it's ugly, but it would have completely stopped them.
 

CrowBloke

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1) And then what happened a week later....?
2) ...one tactic to change the game when it was getting out of our hands would have been to line up someone like Martin and take him out the game. Yes it's ugly, but it would have completely stopped them.
1) I can answer that. They played differently, not as tough, not as focussed, not as team-united. They'd beaten Richmond by nearly 13 goals in Round 6. Geelong was the bogey side. I think the mindset was to get past Geelong and then, well, just do what we did in Round 6, and it's ours. Hard work done. A Flag-for-the-taking. They did not do to Richmond what they did to Geelong a week earlier and it had nothing to do with dirty play, off the ball.
Watch the GF again and look for Richmond's focus, their intent, their run, their execution, again and again and again. They did to us what we'd done to them in R6 and to Geelong in the PF. If anything the Crows had schooled them on how to win that GF.
2) If Martin was stretchered off (but without serious, or career-threatening injury) after being hip-and-shoulder-croonched into LaLaLand by any of our blokes while Martin had the ball or was going for it, fine. Totally fair and legal, and hell-tough.
Off the ball, no thanks.
There are other ways to beat him, btw. Tagging hard, or by playing better as a team, to reduce his effectiveness.
 

craig crowing

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Yes we follow AFL to see our team win but we also want to see the stars of the game play and if we want to see them injured way off the ball or knocked deliberately on injured parts of body out of play or holding on to them so cant get near the ball then for a start we are thinking negative and not in a positive way and really not the Australian way of life.
I really am dismayed that our supporters and coaches happy to see a pint sized kid with a handful of games that in all his games getting 2 or 3 possessions running around bashing into players off the ball when game had stopped .
If you are happy to see this output and actions from a first round pick rather than what kids like Butters , Duursma etc then you are following the wrong game and maybe need to move to the north eastern side of Australia.
 

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MrBarry

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Yes we follow AFL to see our team win but we also want to see the stars of the game play and if we want to see them injured way off the ball or knocked deliberately on injured parts of body out of play or holding on to them so cant get near the ball then for a start we are thinking negative and not in a positive way and really not the Australian way of life.
I really am dismayed that our supporters and coaches happy to see a pint sized kid with a handful of games that in all his games getting 2 or 3 possessions running around bashing into players off the ball when game had stopped .
If you are happy to see this output and actions from a first round pick rather than what kids like Butters , Duursma etc then you are following the wrong game and maybe need to move to the north eastern side of Australia.
Firstly, McHenry has played 7 career games all this year. 4 of them he has had double figure posessions - so your 2-3 posessions a game stat is wrong. I also have absolutely 0 issue with a rookie player getting stuck into the opposition, you do realise that is just as much a part of the game right? It's a physical sport, it's not basketball. A player bringing that attitude is infectious and it raises the intensity of his team mates. Your looking at it in a really black and white way, where it's somewhere in the middle.
 

cleanhands

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Firstly, McHenry has played 7 career games all this year. 4 of them he has had double figure posessions - so your 2-3 posessions a game stat is wrong. I also have absolutely 0 issue with a rookie player getting stuck into the opposition, you do realise that is just as much a part of the game right? It's a physical sport, it's not basketball. A player bringing that attitude is infectious and it raises the intensity of his team mates. Your looking at it in a really black and white way, where it's somewhere in the middle.
It’s bluff footy,trying to make up For your lack of ability, give me a player that puts his nose over a 50/50 footy and wins it, executes a perfect handball to a running teammate,or breaks clear and hits a leading target 45metres way on the chest and doesn’t flinch, not the puffed chest pigeons wasting energy trying to be tough,the sooner it’s out of the game better
 

Bearded Clam

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I saw the footage on Ch.9 yesterday, showing what some of the Crows did to Gawn 40/60/80 metres off the ball. Dirty tactic, not in the spirit of the game, any game; unnecessary. Smacked of Toby Greene-level dirty play.
I didn't like it, at all.
What???...

“spirit of the game”???... “dirty tactics arent right”???.. “unnecessary”!

come on... you dont actually believe in that horseshit do you?.

if Gawn is deemed fit to play by his football club then how can anyone take issue with a few bumps off the ball etc..

what next?.. we have the coach of a club entering the changerooms of the opposing team before a game and asking kindly “look, ah, Maxy’s is a bit sore this week.. his shoulder aint 100%.. do you guys mind just laying off it tonight?.. cheers lads”..

faaark that..

Seems this drafting tactic of picking “good respectful kids from fine backgrounds and great families” is promoting a softness thats starting to leech into the brains of our supporters..

We are hated.. the vicco’s have always hated us as they have always viewed us as a quasi state team through the lense of state of origin..

The port flogs down the road hate us because they have massive chips on their shoulder and are still sooking cause we got the license to enter the AFL that they wanted and they instead got a massive b*tch slap from the SANFL and AFL. They’ll never get over it.

I say.. time to actually give these tossers something to really hate us for... unsociable football and tonnes of it please.
 

1970crow

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I saw the footage on Ch.9 yesterday, showing what some of the Crows did to Gawn 40/60/80 metres off the ball. Dirty tactic, not in the spirit of the game, any game; unnecessary. Smacked of Toby Greene-level dirty play.
I didn't like it, at all.
The exceedingly obvious difference between that and Bernie/Danger is that Bernie destroyed Danger in play and often when Danger had the ball in hand. What we did was against the spirit and the laws of the game. But, unlike you, I loved it. If the umps aren't paying the illegal shepherd free kicks that far off the play and it works for us in some way, then do it until a whistle blows.
 
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1970crow

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Nah. For tackles inside 50 they’re equal 16th and 20th in the league respectively. Crazier still is McAdam is 4th in the whole league for this stat. So somehow we have 3 of the top 20 defensive forwards in the game (as measured by tackles inside 50). Make of that what you will...
Lots of ground ball in our 50, we're probably last for inside 50 marks. Classic negative positive stat. We've been number 1 for rebound 50s since about round 2. Problem is we were 18th for inside 50's from those rebounds and also 18th, obviously, for i50s conceded. Hence our 'excellent' rebound rating.
 

1970crow

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Did you even read this:
" If Gawn has the ball and can get crunched to the moon with a fair hip-and-shoulder, great, do it eg Doedee's tackle a coupla weeks ago. I want the Crows to be known for and feared because of fair toughness and brilliance. "?
I'm all for tough, uncompromising, hard football, treating opposition as THE enemy onfield, jostling around the ball, hard tackling, even harder bumping. I think a well-delivered hip-and-shoulder that flattens someone-with-the-ball is a thing of beauty.
I think you're talking about taking people out away from the ball and other dirty blindsiding tactics, or worse.
What did you think of Cotchin's hit on Shiel in the 2017 Prelim. which concussed one of GWS' chief playmakers early in the game? I thought it was a disgraceful late hit, intentional and high straight at the player, and he should have copped 3-4 weeks for it. Even worse, he was not suspended at all.
How about Toby Greene's habit of fending off other players in the midriff and even face, with his boot sprigs?
Or the previously mentioned Bernie Vince pestering/slapping/knocking of Dangerfield's sore hand?
In Rugby League 2001, Hopoate had an unusual way of giving opponents the finger which was extremely "unsociable". Was that ok, if it helped his team win?
Would you cheer if Brodie Smith did an Andrew Gaff and uppercut another team's rookie (Brayshaw), for an 8-week holiday? Think about Barry Hall, Dave Granger and their ilk.
Or even on a lesser scale Richmond's well-drilled ways of holding players down in packs (and Eddie in the goalsquare, Umpire unsighted, 2017 GF)? Totally illegal, right? but if it works and helps the team win (a Flag), great?
Nah, mate, not for me, and we're never going to agree on this and that's ok.
You and Golumless and PasswordisTaco and others will argue that the end --- a Flag --- justifies the means (dirty, off-the-ball, mongrel acts which you euphemise as 'unsociable'), but I can't agree. There's tough and grubby/dirty, and there's tough-but-fair. I support the latter.
I think many Crows teams have played 'nice', too nice, and we've recruited kids like Jones and Coaches like Nicks who are nice, as well. I repeat, I'd love to see our Crows being tougher and showing mongrel intent on and around the ball. Just look at the way they won the 2017 PF, tough and fair --- but not by running 20m., with the ball 60m away to take a cheap shot at Gawn last game. That's not how I'd want them to win.

Plenty of Flags have been won by teams who were tough, relentless and highly-skilled without any off-the-ball "unsociability" (eg WCE in 2018, Crows in 97/98 and never resorted to that stuff).
He wasn't being t@ken out, he was being mildly physically pestered in order to screw with his head. A tactic which has apparently worked in the past as he gets frustrated and it impacts his output. You're making it out like he was being felled behind play.
 

Betts are off

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Hey guys, Keays to tag Adams or Sidebottom? Or no one at all?
He'll probably do a bit of everything. Seems to get a role for a quarter or a half, then will be let free to hunt the footy.

If you're looking for a Supercoach lock i'd put your captaincy on who-ever is standing next to Matt Crouch. That player tends to get BOG against us on a weekly basis!
 

Betts are off

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Firstly, McHenry has played 7 career games all this year. 4 of them he has had double figure posessions - so your 2-3 posessions a game stat is wrong. I also have absolutely 0 issue with a rookie player getting stuck into the opposition, you do realise that is just as much a part of the game right? It's a physical sport, it's not basketball. A player bringing that attitude is infectious and it raises the intensity of his team mates. Your looking at it in a really black and white way, where it's somewhere in the middle.
I wouldn't bother mate, this guy has had it in for McHenry all year. Ned could save his family from a fire and he would find a way to complain about it!
 

chrisso crow

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He wasn't being t@ken out, he was being mildly physically pestered in order to screw with his head. A tactic which has apparently worked in the past as he gets frustrated and it impacts his output. You're making it out like he was being felled behind play.
Exactly. I can't believe the attention this has even created just because KCornes hates Adelaide. Teams plot to rough players up all of the time to take their mind off the game.

The one occasion where Ned interfered with Gawn's attempt to get to the footy he was correctly penalised.

I particularly remember Port targeting Neale last year by giving Sutcliff the task, but don't remember Cornes even commenting on that one.

Are we at the point where Gawn says "Goody, I'm right to play this week, but do you mind having a chat to the other team to take it easy on my shoulder". Please.

And a note to Ned, please focus on getting the footy at the same time, otherwise you will end up looking like a little sh1t with no football talent.
 

spexau

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Lots of ground ball in our 50, we're probably last for inside 50 marks. Classic negative positive stat. We've been number 1 for rebound 50s since about round 2. Problem is we were 18th for inside 50's from those rebounds and also 18th, obviously, for i50s conceded. Hence our 'excellent' rebound rating.
It's just like our defensive numbers being 2nd in the comp. It's a symptom of a god-awful midfield.
 

1970crow

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Exactly. I can't believe the attention this has even created just because KCornes hates Adelaide. Teams plot to rough players up all of the time to take their mind off the game.

The one occasion where Ned interfered with Gawn's attempt to get to the footy he was correctly penalised.

I particularly remember Port targeting Neale last year by giving Sutcliff the task, but don't remember Cornes even commenting on that one.

Are we at the point where Gawn says "Goody, I'm right to play this week, but do you mind having a chat to the other team to take it easy on my shoulder". Please.

And a note to Ned, please focus on getting the footy at the same time, otherwise you will end up looking like a little sh1t with no football talent.
I think us being so sh*t gives it a bit of mayo for Kornes to apply. The, "how about you concentrate on doing football good first". His attempted link to targeting an injury was pretty pathetic and the boys on the footy show tore that side of it to shreds. I don't mind Kornes commentary these days, but some of his written work smacks of being written months before and he then gets it published at first opportunity. The Betts article a perfect example. Rooch used to do this as well.
 

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