Preview Changes: R22 v Collingwood

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Mr MysteryGuest

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I’m expecting Sloane to miss, would like to Poholke in the middle but I think we’ll bring in Seedsman.

Sauce will get his 200th but I’m worried he’ll look like 2017 Thommo next to Grundy.
 
May 24, 2006
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How was he ‘excellent’?!

What a joke. He was ok.

We all knew the club were going to manufacture his 200th.

Must be dropped after that, then delisted...unless he’s willing to play forward pocket in the 2’s next year
They've juggled it so that his 200th is at home too so that Chappy gets his big moment

It's probably a coincidence
 

slice

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It’s kind of hilarious that we played Sauce too long which ended up getting him within striking distance of 200 games and now the club feels compelled to get him there.

Lucky you can’t kick own goals on field in this sport too.
 

hey shorty

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It’s kind of hilarious that we played Sauce too long which ended up getting him within striking distance of 200 games and now the club feels compelled to get him there.

Lucky you can’t kick own goals on field in this sport too.
He deserves the 200 really, but the way we've done it is pretty poor.
 

Peter J

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The glib answer is no, we lost with him in and we would have lost (by more) without him.

The writing was on the wall very early that we were not going to win the flag this year so more games to Rob, Fog, Jones, McHenry, Poholke, Davis, Himmelberg, Gallucci, Stengle and less games to Jacobs, Jenkins, Douglas, Mackay, Gibbs, Hartigan, Otten and Betts would have been a good idea.

If the club had identified that we were on the slide then giving so many games to players who will not be around when we next challenge for the flag makes no sense. When we were 8-5 and had every chance to make the top four this wasn’t quite so obvious.

Then we have a group of younger players who have been ordinary this year like Atkins, Seedsman, Greenwood, Knight and some (not me) have suggested Murphy who have played plenty of games without having a regular impact on our chances of winning.

I have said that I really like the look of Butts, Sholl, Hamill and McAdam but I suspect they are not ready for the AFL. I will be delighted if any of them get a game this year and prove me wrong.
There’s absolutely no excuse for not playing Jordy Butts on Sunday who would have matched up with fellow 1st year Oscar Allen.

Instead we use a cooked Andy Otten and hey presto Allen has his best game for the year.

It is sheer bloody minded stupidity.

Additionally there’s absolutely no excuse for playing a cooked Douglas ahead of Jones.
 

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Jack is Back

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There’s absolutely no excuse for not playing Jordy Butts on Sunday who would have matched up with fellow 1st year Oscar Allen.

Instead we use a cooked Andy Otten and hey presto Allen has his best game for the year.

It is sheer bloody minded stupidity.

Additionally there’s absolutely no excuse for playing a cooked Douglas ahead of Jones.
Firstly, I have consistently said that Douglas should not be playing this year after his poor pre-season performance and his shambolic slipping exhibition against Hawthorn. I have advocated for Jones to be played as much as possible and unlike some other players he has had some ripping matches in the Twos.

Oscar Allen, close but no cigar. Perhaps you are confusing him with Matthew Allen who is also on the Eagles list.

Oscar is not a first year player like Jordan Butts. Oscar Allen won the Larke medal as the best player in the 2018 Under 18 championships playing as a key forward and played all last year as a defender in their Twos (what was Simpson thinking) except for two games as a defender in the AFL late last season. He has only missed one game this year (due to injury) and has had an excellent season as a Forward/second ruck.

Did you see Butts recent game against Liam McBean or both games against the Poort Pear Twos? They would suggest that he would struggle big time against Oscar. I didn’t think Andy Otten should have played against the Eagles but I am not sure that Jordan would have got us over the line.

I wouldn’t argue if we gave him a game but suggesting Butts for Otten was a no brainer is a bit disingenuous
 

Peter J

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Firstly, I have consistently said that Douglas should not be playing this year after his poor pre-season performance and his shambolic slipping exhibition against Hawthorn. I have advocated for Jones to be played as much as possible and unlike some other players he has had some ripping matches in the Twos.

Oscar Allen, close but no cigar. Perhaps you are confusing him with Matthew Allen who is also on the Eagles list.

Oscar is not a first year player like Jordan Butts. Oscar Allen won the Larke medal as the best player in the 2018 Under 18 championships playing as a key forward and played all last year as a defender in their Twos (what was Simpson thinking) except for two games as a defender in the AFL late last season. He has only missed one game this year (due to injury) and has had an excellent season as a Forward/second ruck.

Did you see Butts recent game against Liam McBean or both games against the Poort Pear Twos? They would suggest that he would struggle big time against Oscar. I didn’t think Andy Otten should have played against the Eagles but I am not sure that Jordan would have got us over the line.

I wouldn’t argue if we gave him a game but suggesting Butts for Otten was a no brainer is a bit disingenuous
You regularly advocate giving kids a chance, right up until it’s time to give kids a chance. Then it’s don’t give kids a chance.

Did you see some of Fog’s form in the 2’s?
 

Elite Crow

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Firstly, I have consistently said that Douglas should not be playing this year after his poor pre-season performance and his shambolic slipping exhibition against Hawthorn. I have advocated for Jones to be played as much as possible and unlike some other players he has had some ripping matches in the Twos.

Oscar Allen, close but no cigar. Perhaps you are confusing him with Matthew Allen who is also on the Eagles list.

Oscar is not a first year player like Jordan Butts. Oscar Allen won the Larke medal as the best player in the 2018 Under 18 championships playing as a key forward and played all last year as a defender in their Twos (what was Simpson thinking) except for two games as a defender in the AFL late last season. He has only missed one game this year (due to injury) and has had an excellent season as a Forward/second ruck.

Did you see Butts recent game against Liam McBean or both games against the Poort Pear Twos? They would suggest that he would struggle big time against Oscar. I didn’t think Andy Otten should have played against the Eagles but I am not sure that Jordan would have got us over the line.

I wouldn’t argue if we gave him a game but suggesting Butts for Otten was a no brainer is a bit disingenuous
Someone needs to talk to Doedee who reckons he could play now
 

Mutineer

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And if anyone wants to argue we needed Otten to relief ruck, WCE used Allen 191cm and 83kg. Butts is 198cm and 83kg. Both 1st years.

The only difference is WCE trust a kid to do the job.
Nah, Jordan is not a ruckman, his body on body work is still a work in progress, Himmelberg played a heap in defence as a junior, would be a far better option and much more developed.

From Elliott's draft year.


Medium Defenders
Jarrod Berry- Vic Country
Isaac Cumming- NSW/ACT
Taylin Duman- Vic Metro
Ben Long- NT
Bailey Morrish- Vic Country
Harry Morrison- Vic Country
Harry Perryman- NSW/ACT
Sam Walker- South Australia
Tom Williamson- Vic Country
Alex Witherden- Vic Country
Alex Villis- South Australia
Tall Defenders
Brennan Cox- South Australia
Ryan Garthwaite- NSW/ACT
Elliot Himmelberg- Queensland
Griffin Logue- Western Australia
Harrison Macreadie- NSW/ACT
Jack Maibaum- Vic Metro
Sam McLarty- Vic Metro
Jordan Ridley- Vic Metro
Joshua Rotham- Western Australia
Jack Scrimshaw- Vic Metro
Declan Watson- Queensland
Medium Midfielders
Jacob Allison- Queensland
Joseph Atley- Vic Country
Hamish Brayshaw- Vic Metro
Will Brodie- Vic Country
Jack Bowes- Queensland
Dylan Clarke- Vic Metro
Willem Drew- Vic Country
Judah Dundon- Vic Metro
Jordan Gallucci- Vic Metro
Jack Graham- South Australia
Matt Guelfi- Western Australia
Oscar Junker- Vic Metro
Hugh McCluggage- Vic Country
Kobe Mutch- NSW/ACT
Sam Petrevski-Seton- Western Australia
Myles Poholke- Vic Country
Sam Powell-Pepper- Western Australia
Luke Ryan- VFL
Jonty Scharenberg- South Australia
Will Setterfield- NSW/ACT
Daniel Venables- Vic Metro
Josh Williams- Queensland
 

Peter J

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Nah, Jordan is not a ruckman, his body on body work is still a work in progress, Himmelberg played a heap in defence as a junior, would be a far better option and much more developed.

From Elliott's draft year.


Medium Defenders
Jarrod Berry- Vic Country
Isaac Cumming- NSW/ACT
Taylin Duman- Vic Metro
Ben Long- NT
Bailey Morrish- Vic Country
Harry Morrison- Vic Country
Harry Perryman- NSW/ACT
Sam Walker- South Australia
Tom Williamson- Vic Country
Alex Witherden- Vic Country
Alex Villis- South Australia
Tall Defenders
Brennan Cox- South Australia
Ryan Garthwaite- NSW/ACT
Elliot Himmelberg- Queensland
Griffin Logue- Western Australia
Harrison Macreadie- NSW/ACT
Jack Maibaum- Vic Metro
Sam McLarty- Vic Metro
Jordan Ridley- Vic Metro
Joshua Rotham- Western Australia
Jack Scrimshaw- Vic Metro
Declan Watson- Queensland
Medium Midfielders
Jacob Allison- Queensland
Joseph Atley- Vic Country
Hamish Brayshaw- Vic Metro
Will Brodie- Vic Country
Jack Bowes- Queensland
Dylan Clarke- Vic Metro
Willem Drew- Vic Country
Judah Dundon- Vic Metro
Jordan Gallucci- Vic Metro
Jack Graham- South Australia
Matt Guelfi- Western Australia
Oscar Junker- Vic Metro
Hugh McCluggage- Vic Country
Kobe Mutch- NSW/ACT
Sam Petrevski-Seton- Western Australia
Myles Poholke- Vic Country
Sam Powell-Pepper- Western Australia
Luke Ryan- VFL
Jonty Scharenberg- South Australia
Will Setterfield- NSW/ACT
Daniel Venables- Vic Metro
Josh Williams- Queensland
Yep decent call that, EH was a defender in his early years. I would have been happy with that option other than the fact he wouldn’t have played as a defender since joining us.

Of course Butts isn’t a ruck, but neither is Otten. No reason Butts couldn’t have gone with Allen all game. We just don’t trust.

That said, I agree EH also a better option than Otten
 
May 24, 2006
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Why wouldn't Himmelberg have played some time in defence with our reserves?

Also why hasn't he rucked more? Surely the Hunter minutes are a complete waste of everyone's time. I don't watch many of our SANFL games admittedly but it seemed as though EH rucked more at AFL level than he did at SANFL level (and it showed)
 

Jack is Back

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Someone needs to talk to Doedee who reckons he could play now
It depends on the role. I believe I was one of the first Big Footy posters to talk up Big Butts after watching him play in the under 23 trial match against Poort Pear.

IMHO his strengths are
1) His judgement, he knows when to leave his man and create a two-on-one.
2) He knows when to spoil and when to attempt to mark.
3) His disposal is superior to any of our tall defenders.
4) For his size, he is excellent when the ball is on the ground.

His weakness (but he is improving) is contested man-on-man marking. In round 6 at Alberton he was out bodied and out marked on two occasions by the Port Pear Monster Tobin Cox (181 cm, 73kg). He has been moved off the ball in a marking contest on quite a few occasions this year.

If he has a strong pre-season he will be cherry ripe for 2020. I wouldn’t complain if he is selected this week but Crow fans need to be realistic, there is a significant chance he will be taken apart by a bigger bodied, experienced AFL player.
 

Peter J

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It depends on the role. I believe I was one of the first Big Footy posters to talk up Big Butts after watching him play in the under 23 trial match against Poort Pear.

IMHO his strengths are
1) His judgement, he knows when to leave his man and create a two-on-one.
2) He knows when to spoil and when to attempt to mark.
3) His disposal is superior to any of our tall defenders.
4) For his size, he is excellent when the ball is on the ground.

His weakness (but he is improving) is contested man-on-man marking. In round 6 at Alberton he was out bodied and out marked on two occasions by the Port Pear Monster Tobin Cox (181 cm, 73kg). He has been moved off the ball in a marking contest on quite a few occasions this year.

If he has a strong pre-season he will be cherry ripe for 2020. I wouldn’t complain if he is selected this week but Crow fans need to be realistic, there is a significant chance he will be taken apart by a bigger bodied, experienced AFL player.
So is Allen an experienced player with 20 odd games?

Would he have been so much worse than Otten who was soundly beaten anyway?

Anyway it’s a moot argument which I’ll let go.
 

jackster83

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Why wouldn't Himmelberg have played some time in defence with our reserves?

Also why hasn't he rucked more? Surely the Hunter minutes are a complete waste of everyone's time. I don't watch many of our SANFL games admittedly but it seemed as though EH rucked more at AFL level than he did at SANFL level (and it showed)
Because getting ruck time into that young go getter Sam Jacobs was deemed more important. Even Strachan is only just starting to get some time in the ruck now.
 

Geoffa32

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Why wouldn't Himmelberg have played some time in defence with our reserves?

Also why hasn't he rucked more? Surely the Hunter minutes are a complete waste of everyone's time. I don't watch many of our SANFL games admittedly but it seemed as though EH rucked more at AFL level than he did at SANFL level (and it showed)
I can recall him playing in defence in his first year.

Not much in Ruck tho.


I wonder if next year we have CEY Ruck a bit. Or Greenwood if he stays.

Richmond do this and it works.

RoB is capable of Rucking 90% of the game anyway.

If we can lift the quality if our midfield, Ruck is peripheral anyway. WCE and Richmond have shown that in the last two Grand Finals with the lesser Ruckman, but winning the game.

This is why I feel going after Grundy would be a massive mistake.

Sent from my SM-G930F using Tapatalk
 

Geoffa32

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So is Allen an experienced player with 20 odd games?

Would he have been so much worse than Otten who was soundly beaten anyway?

Anyway it’s a moot argument which I’ll let go.
It is easier for a kid to play up forward than defend.

Forward play you are only accountable to kicking goals and you can play looser.

Defending you are accountable to a player and stopping the other team score.

Are there many 19 year old key defenders playing un the league?

Butts is a big part of our future though and should be pushing Harto out next year IMO.

Sent from my SM-G930F using Tapatalk
 
May 24, 2006
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It's pretty typical of Adelaide to look at what a player can't do and not be able to get past it

Butts might get outbodied occassionally. So that means he cannot be played under any circumstances.

What about all the good things he does? Agile for a big bloke, decent closing speed, quality intercept mark, good distribution...? Will improve quickly if given exposure at a higher level? To us none of that matters. He might get outbodied. The end.

Fogarty's tank? The end.

What about all his good stuff? Doesn't matter to us.

We need to learn how to formulate and understand pros and cons lists.
 
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