Roast Changes: R6 vs West Coast, 2020 - What the * are we doing?

[GreyCrow]

It's clear he isn't a blasting sort of a coach, he won't cook a bloke in public.

'hey guys - yeah we are going to try a few different things this week - as you might have gathered from selection - might see a different forward set up with Fish and Sloane spending more time through there while we look at some other blokes in the middle''

 

[BACCS]

during either 2016 or 2017, the below players were essentially permanent fixtures in the Adelaide side when fit:

Rory Atkins
Riley Knight
Mitch McGovern
Matt Crouch
Charlie Cameron
Jake Lever
Jake Kelly (2017)

They put a good number of games into Milera at the time too.

That’s 7, we are at 11 players under 50 games already and there are definitely more to come this season (Sholl, Worrell amongst others). I can’t remember the last time we had 4 debutants within the first 5 rounds of a season. This is the strongest the Crows have gone at a rebuild in its history.

3 or 4 new or players with minimal experience coming into a team during the season isn’t unusual, 8 is though.

 

[WetCrow1991]

Another likely reason is Nicks wanting to see as many players, with his own eyes, performing at the senior level - before he makes career ending decisions at the end of the season.

McPherson and Mackay will be the 32nd and 33rd players used by the Crows this year. That's two more than we used in the entire 2017 season.

Weird comparison, but ok.

 

[ams4crows]

Suspect Hamill will be shuffled to CHF to free up the running defender spot for DMac

Hamill after 3 games where in one he was concussed in the 1st 1/4 is already a better player than Mackay, he's been one of few shinning lights this year.

 

[1970crow]

What is going on there? Cramp? Locked knee? Hard to stop watching it.

 

[ABAB]

Can you explain this further - it doesnt add up to me

The list was still good to contend for the premiership for another 3-4 years after 2017 and there was meant to transition of the list slowly during that period. We were just outside the 8 in 2018 and 2019 so Pyke continue to played the experience players for too long trying to get into the 8. Then the issue with the camp was bigger than most of us thought, Pyke quit and there was a massive list turnover last year and here we are.

 

[Thetrader15]

during either 2016 or 2017, the below players were essentially permanent fixtures in the Adelaide side when fit:

Rory Atkins
Riley Knight
Mitch McGovern
Matt Crouch
Charlie Cameron
Jake Lever
Jake Kelly (2017)

They put a good number of games into Milera at the time too.

That's not 9 or 10

 

[Thetrader15]

What is going on there? Cramp? Locked knee? Hard to stop watching it.

Why would someone post that?

Mitch really has lost the plot.

 

[1970crow]

2016 was the record low. 2017 was when the Burton induced injury crisis started but went unnoticed due to form.

But from memory that was mostly to players in the 2s. The 1s were largely unimpacted. I think Lever early in the year and Gov late. Hampton got injured but was borderline dropworthy leading to it.

 

[Thetrader15]

during either 2016 or 2017, the below players were essentially permanent fixtures in the Adelaide side when fit:

Rory Atkins
Riley Knight
Mitch McGovern
Matt Crouch
Charlie Cameron
Jake Lever
Jake Kelly (2017)

They put a good number of games into Milera at the time too.

Counter that with
McPherson
McHenry
Jones
Fogarty
Hamill
McAsey
Polholke
McAdam
Stengle
Himmelberg
....in 6 games

 

[GreyCrow]

We are in this position now because the list turnover was stuffed up due to the camp which didn't allow us to properly transition.

The list was still good to contend for the premiership for another 3-4 years after 2017 and there was meant to transition of the list slowly during that period. We were just outside the 8 so Pyke played the experience players for too long trying to get into the 8. Then the issue with the Camp was bigger than most of us thought, Pyke quit and there was a massive list turnover last year and here we are.

ok - still reads a bit hinky but a better explanation. I personally thought 2018 was as far as we were going to go - not another 2-3 years but thats subjective.

I see it that the camp was more peripheral to the mood of the players. Now whether they gave up and cost us a chance is possible - but end of 2018 we should have started moving players on - not inking fresh contracts - 2019 highlighted how blind the club were to issues - and maybe that was more camp but I felt it was more poor list management decisions

 

[fabs33]

At 2.42 in Nicks presser on you tube: "we had a thought of (resting him) but Rory makes that decision."
Sums us up. Who's the coach?

Nicks keeps giving me Sanderson vibes.

 

[1970crow]

That’s 7, we are at 11 players under 50 games already and there are definitely more to come this season (Sholl, Worrell amongst others). I can’t remember the last time we had 4 debutants within the first 5 rounds of a season. This is the strongest the Crows have gone at a rebuild in its history.

3 or 4 new or players with minimal experience coming into a team during the season isn’t unusual, 8 is though.

And yet it's still only 3 senior players missing out, Gibbs, Seed and Knight. In 2019, Pyke at varying times had, Gibbs, Mackay, Sauce, Otten, Jenkins and Douglas missing blocks of games. You can look at the new players getting in in isolation as evidence of a change but you can look at the lack of senior players missing in isolation to form a contrary opinion. I think we're not far ahead of the realistic minimum right now, most changes have been injury forced, not by preferencing developing a kid over a senior player out of form. It could be worse, but not by too much. It's certainly no better than 2019 in terms of moving past senior players. Pyke shat the bed at the end of the year trying to crack the 8, but he did leave seniors in the 2s quite ok mid season.

 

[ABAB]

ok - still reads a bit hinky but a better explanation. I personally thought 2018 was as far as we were going to go - not another 2-3 years but thats subjective.

I see it that the camp was more peripheral to the mood of the players. Now whether they gave up and cost us a chance is possible - but end of 2018 we should have started moving players on - not inking fresh contracts - 2019 highlighted how blind the club were to issues - and maybe that was more camp but I felt it was more poor list management decisions

Most expert thought we were still premiership contenders in 2019 because of the amount of injuries in 2018 where we ended just missing out on the 8. Imagine the uproar from the supporters if we weren't able to sign the very important players in Sloane and Lynch when we were still contending for the premiership....

 

[1970crow]

Why would someone post that?

Mitch really has lost the plot.

I like it. Thought it was funny linking it to the twitter utensil up. All good fun. Reckon Nic Nat will jump clean over ROB at bounce 1 tomorrow. I wonder if there's any betting odds that we can take advantage of. Nic Nat 30 touches. 10 marks and 3 goals at 60:1, I'll take it.

 

[1970crow]

Counter that with
McPherson
McHenry
Jones
Fogarty
Hamill
McAsey
Polholke
McAdam
Stengle
Himmelberg
....in 6 games

if you count EH, you count Davis, who you missed.

 

[GreyCrow]

Most expert thought we were still premiership contenders in 2019 because of the amount of injuries in 2018 where we ended just missing out on the 8. Imagine the uproar from the supporters if we weren't able to sign the very important players in Sloane and Lynch when we were still contending for the premiership....

But by the end of 2018 noises from the players about the camp were gathering huge heads of steam - that was the time to move some on

On Sloane and Lynch - maybe Sloane but Lynch would have been an easy call - our club struggles and the emotion of losing or retaining players has frozen us more than the camp and a belief in any premiership window - to the extent we signed players well past use by dates

 

[1970crow]

ok - still reads a bit hinky but a better explanation. I personally thought 2018 was as far as we were going to go - not another 2-3 years but thats subjective.

I see it that the camp was more peripheral to the mood of the players. Now whether they gave up and cost us a chance is possible - but end of 2018 we should have started moving players on - not inking fresh contracts - 2019 highlighted how blind the club were to issues - and maybe that was more camp but I felt it was more poor list management decisions

My thoughts haven't changed from the first moment that a mind camp was mentioned and the stories, true and otherwise, began leaking out. What happened during the camp didn't damage the coach/player relationship as much as the fact that there was a camp to correct player mental weakness at all. That overt level of blame gaming was never going to strengthen the group.

 

[1970crow]

Most expert thought we were still premiership contenders in 2019 because of the amount of injuries in 2018 where we ended just missing out on the 8. Imagine the uproar from the supporters if we weren't able to sign the very important players in Sloane and Lynch when we were still contending for the premiership....

A few were calling for Lynch to be traded out rather than re-signed. Not because he was no good, but because he had trade value and we'd committed to Tex and JJ already and had Fog coming through needing games. And a forward line with Tex, second ruck, Fog and Lynch is a problem for application of defensive and ground ball pressure.

 

[ABAB]

But by the end of 2018 noises from the players about the camp were gathering huge heads of steam - that was the time to move some on

On Sloane and Lynch - maybe Sloane but Lynch would have been an easy call - our club struggles and the emotion of losing or retaining players has frozen us more than the camp and a belief in any premiership window - to the extent we signed players well past use by dates

Hence, I said the camp was a bigger issue than all of us thought. If internally management knew this which is doubtful since they did do an internal review to finally discover it was a massive problem then they had to trade both of them knowing the list was stuffed and there was no chance of reconciliation with a complete rebuild required right then. But then if they didn't say this publicly as to why both Sloane and Lynch who were both still in their prime was traded when seemingly still in the premiership window, imagine what us external supporters and the media would have thought. How incompetence that we couldn't keep players and this might have cost our chance at the premiership......

 

[ABAB]

A few were calling for Lynch to be traded out rather than re-signed. Not because he was no good, but because he had trade value and we'd committed to Tex and JJ already and had Fog coming through needing games. And a forward line with Tex, second ruck, Fog and Lynch is a problem for application of defensive and ground ball pressure.

Really, I thought he was very important for us in 2017 and played a critical role in us reaching the Grand Final.

 

[GreyCrow]

Really, I thought he was very important for us in 2017 and played a critical role in us reaching the Grand Final.

Which is when you get maximum value

 

[ABAB]

Which is when you get maximum value

But might prevent us from reaching the Grand Final again and winning it this time.

 

[GROTTO]

Why are people assuming McAsey is going to play forward?

His odds on kicking a goal have been bashed in on the betting markets.

He was paying ~$5 to kick a goal on Saturday.

I wanted that much money on the Crows entire forward line in total to kick a goal.

 

[GreyCrow]

But might prevent us from reaching the Grand Final again and winning it this time.

Again thats subjective. His draft picks may have given us player/s who would get us to 4 GFs