Unofficial Preview Changes Rd 5 v Collingwood

[chopperduck]

Changes minimal, no need to throw the toys out of the cot after 1 loss.

 

[bungalow_bill]

I'd like to bring in Ely to rough up their mids and to show them who they could have drafted

 

[martinson]

I don't think I'd be risking any debut players in this particular match.

I'd rather go back to Bastinac who at least makes a decent decision when he gets it most of the time.

All depends on how some of our guys come up on the short break particularly seeing a few of them have been looking tired/soreish

Taylor's fresh ,Cutler's fresh and we know they can both play a bit.

If we were looking to drop people there's probably half a dozen to pick from . I agree ,don't overreact , but just try to get a bit more balance in the team . Our M/F has probably one too many one pacers . Backline definitely in need of some zip. Small forwards not giving us enough consistency .

But if we don't have anyone better there's not much sense in wholesale changes. The guys we have have won 3 games. We'll know a lot more where we're at after Thursday

 

[jackess]

We knew going in to the Essendon game we going up against a team with a very fast and smaller forward line, yet we went tall and slow.

It was the ideal game to bring in one or two of the younger to “blood” them before the Collingwood game.

We didn’t go in tall. They had a resting ruckman, Brown and Stringer. We had Andrews, Walker and Gardiner (who can play small). Slow granted but not too tall.

We are up against Collingwood who also have a lot of marking power in their forward line eg. Cox, Mihocek, de Goey and Elliot.

 

[tate13]

I'd bring Cutler in for N Robbo. Takes the game on and provides a bit of run off half back. I think he probably would've been a better matchup for Essendon's forward line too. Wouldn't touch Rayner - impact player atm and I don't think we'd be replacing his quality with equal quality when I look at the suggested ins.

Having said that our forward line is a sizeable problem in my eyes. We look for a lot of cheap goals over the back instead of leading up at the ball carrier. It results in our mids kicking it in and our forwards lagging metres behind the defender. It makes it look like a poor kick in (which it is) but by no means the entire fault of our mids.
Charlie Cameron has been excellent and will continue to be, but he goes missing too much, has long patches of 0 impact on the game and makes incredibly costly mistakes/turnovers. McStay, who I'm hoping can be the player we need him to be only shows glimpses and Hipwood, while a star in the making, has no contested marking game, plays for free kicks and doesn't seem to lead up at the carrier. And when he does lead up he tends to fly forward on impact for a free kick.
Oscar has been one of the few that does lead up. It's worked in patches but I'm not sure this is a long term option? He's a good option to pop up and helps our ruck stocks, but not the answer to this issue.

Rayner and Linc do the spectacular but at this stage (I'm confident it'll come) it's not at the level of consistency we'd like.

It's far from the end of the world - the improvement is there to see and I'm sure we'll get it right, but for me at the moment it's a bit of an issue.

 

[martinson]

We didn’t go in tall. They had a resting ruckman, Brown and Stringer. We had Andrews, Walker and Gardiner (who can play small). Slow granted but not too tall.

We are up against Collingwood who also have a lot of marking power in their forward line eg. Cox, Mihocek, de Goey and Elliot.

We didn’t go in tall. They had a resting ruckman, Brown and Stringer. We had Andrews, Walker and Gardiner (who can play small). Slow granted but not too tall.

We are up against Collingwood who also have a lot of marking power in their forward line eg. Cox, Mihocek, de Goey and Elliot.

You'd have to think Harris would take Cox when he's down there . Darce in form would be the obvious one on De goey . I suppose Witherden's an option .Walker for Mihacek . Bit of a worry Elliot ,could carve us up if we don't pressure their entries. In fact De Goey/Elliot pose a big threat with their pace but not an insurmountable one.

 

[jackess]

You'd have to think Harris would take Cox when he's down there . Darce in form would be the obvious one on De goey . I suppose Witherden's an option .Walker for Mihacek . Bit of a worry Elliot ,could carve us up if we don't pressure their entries. In fact De Goey/Elliot pose a big threat with their pace but not an insurmountable one.

Hopefully Walker and Andrews can intercept mark like Hurley and Hooker did.

 

[briztoon]

We didn’t go in tall. They had a resting ruckman, Brown and Stringer. We had Andrews, Walker and Gardiner (who can play small). Slow granted but not too tall.

We are up against Collingwood who also have a lot of marking power in their forward line eg. Cox, Mihocek, de Goey and Elliot.

Well we didn’t play any small defenders apart from Bundy.

We certainly went taller and slower across defence than what Essendon are.

NRobbo is also 191cm, Witherden 188cm, Hodge 185cm.

Elliot is another small forward we don’t have a good match up for. Small, fast and agile. Gets a lot of over the back goals, or crumbing off Cox and De Goey.

 

[jackess]

Well we didn’t play any small defenders apart from Bundy.

We certainly went taller and slower across defence than what Essendon are.

NRobbo is also 191cm, Witherden 188cm, Hodge 185cm.

Elliot is another small forward we don’t have a good match up for. Small, fast and agile. Gets a lot of over the back goals, or crumbing off Cox and De Goey.

At the other end though Collingwood doesn’t have good matchups for Cameron, McCarthy and Zorko but good teams make up for that by applying good pressure through the midfield and applying a team defence.

Collingwood have Maynard, Howe, Crisp and Aish. They’re not much quicker than Robbo, Witherden, Rich and Hodge.

 

[briztoon]

At the other end though Collingwood doesn’t have good matchups for Cameron, McCarthy and Zorko but good teams make up for that by applying good pressure through the midfield and applying a team defence.

Collingwood have Maynard, Howe, Crisp and Aish. They’re not much quicker than Robbo, Witherden, Rich and Hodge.

Sorry jackess but that’s irrelevant to the discussion of our defensive structures.

But it is something we should look to exploit, just as Essendon used their faster small forwards to beat our slow back 6.

 

[jackess]

Sorry jackess but that’s irrelevant to the discussion of our defensive structures.

But it is something we should look to exploit, just as Essendon used their faster small forwards to beat our slow back 6.

Yep it’s irrelevant that other teams with slow backlines can defend well against quicker forwardlines.

I think you have to be the most close minded person on this board Briz.

 

[martinson]

Yep it’s irrelevant that other teams with slow backlines can defend well against quicker forwardlines.

I think you have to be the most close minded person on this board Briz.

Maybe though Jackess it gets back to the quality of your players be they big or small.

I always thought McGovern was a little slow till I saw him running down blokes in the GF when he needed to.

Not much use if your backs are all a bit slow and not classy enough to make up for it. Some of our guys aren't there yet.

But they're the best we've got so we need to have a very tight defensive structure ,with support from our quicker mids imo.

 

[jackess]

Maybe though Jackess it gets back to the quality of your players be they big or small.

I always thought McGovern was a little slow till I saw him running down blokes in the GF when he needed to.

Not much use if your backs are all a bit slow and not classy enough to make up for it. Some of our guys aren't there yet.

But they're the best we've got so we need to have a very tight defensive structure ,with support from our quicker mids imo.

The last sentence sums it up and we clearly value quick defenders. We’ve put Bailey down there, invested heavily in Madden and have guys like Allison developing. It’s not like we have Brad Shepherd in the 2s and decide NRobbo would be a better matchup for lightning quick forwards.

 

[briztoon]

Yep it’s irrelevant that other teams with slow backlines can defend well against quicker forwardlines.

I think you have to be the most close minded person on this board Briz.

Just because someone might not understand the point you were trying to make, doesn’t necessitate a personal comment.

Try explaining your point better, so that others understand. That’s what a discussion is all about. We’re not all born and bred to the game, to understand an implied point.

 

[martinson]

The last sentence sums it up and we clearly value quick defenders. We’ve put Bailey down there, invested heavily in Madden and have guys like Allison developing. It’s not like we have Brad Shepherd in the 2s and decide NRobbo would be a better matchup for lightning quick forwards.

Exactly right.

No use playing someone who's not ready just because they're quicker. This season is the year where we clearly identify what our future needs are and if we don't think there's anyone on our list who can grow into the roles we require then we need to go after whoever is.

I really rate Adams as a player on what I've seen and would love to see him come in to our forward line to add some presence. I think Fages knows this experimenting with Harris up forward. That might require a bit of shuffling.

Darce,Witho and Harris are all plenty young enough to work on the areas of their game where we might be falling down a little . I don't think Bundy's any answer there . Likewise Robbo . Cutler definately has the physical attributes we require but apparently not the mental ones . A fit Bailey and Starcevich are obvious requirements.

 

[M Malice]

The men I'm worried about for this match are- Jamie Elliott, hasn't really torn a game apart since coming back from injury but he is very capable of doing so + Jordan De Goey will be a tough match up as well.

Although Gardiner has been slightly down on form I think he is the best match up for De Goey, Elliott is very strong overhead for a small but not lightning quick on the ground, I'd send Rich to him, he may also be able to run off him in attack.

This game is coming around quick, 4 sleeps.

 

[BRAB]

Degoey is a HUGE threat.

Hodgey might have to good bloke him into a point post if we're going to win

 

[M Malice]

The boys will be in recovery mode all week, not much running being done. I assume the side will be named Wednesday evening.

 

[mikey127]

I'm going no change. Fagans msg should be we can accept we had an off day now go out and redeem yourselves and if you don't start learning the way to the NEAFL grounds.

 

[luthor]

Sorry jackess

But it is something we should look to exploit, just as Essendon used their faster small forwards to beat our slow back 6.

I disagree.

IMO, this is a gross oversimplification if not total misrepresentation of the dynamics of the game.

My contention is that we lost the game due to some poor turnovers in the middle of the ground, another pantsing at the centre square and a failure to covert our Inside 50 entries, resulting in a number of slingshot goals at the other end. We also had an inordinately number of bad breaks with the bounce of the ball at both ends of the ground, not to mention two or three crucial umpiring calls that cost us dearly.

The fastest, most mobile back six would be hard pressed coping with the amount of clean and fast ball that was coming in, especially in the first half.

The argument that we need "fast" backs to counter their "fast" forwards ignores the reality that their are deficiencies elsewhere up the field. Fix those and our much maligned "slow" back six won't have to deal with so many loose runners coming at them.

 

[Kernel Kurtz]

Greene's aren't the benchmark though.

Using your legs to kick out or preventing someone from contesting the mark with your legs is what has changed.

I don't want Hipwood to get suspended for a second, but I also wouldn't be surprised to see Eric made an example of given the injuries to Myers such is the MRO's unpredictability, plus we are the sort of club that the MRO has shown it will suspend our players in comparison to the big Vic clubs where such incidents are overlooked.

We'll soon see anyways.

It looks like Hipwood is pushed in the backside while in mid air by the Essendon player , which makes him tilt slightly more forward.
Pretty clear in the footage .
Edit : sorry bit late to the party with this one, already been said by others.

 

[The Zork]

Without thinking about it I would have dropped nick robbo and McStay.

Thinking about it properly we probably need them match up wise.

Collingwood don’t have pure crumbing forwards rather they have mid sized strong leading and marking forwards.

McStay needing to have a west coast type game to keep Howe Moore and Roughead from picking off long kicks.

Christensen maybe out depending on who’s pushing for a spot. Cutler? Cox?

 

[Big Sauce 21]

Yeah De Goey is a problem. Gardiner will have him and it never ends well.

 

[CarterS]

Wouldn’t mind seeing Charlie get a longer run in the mids.

 

[jackess]

Wouldn’t mind seeing Charlie get a longer run in the mids.

Why? We give him a run in the middle most games and he never does anything.