Changes Rnd 2

Goldust

Brownlow Medallist
Joined
Aug 23, 2005
Posts
12,483
Likes
14,414
Location
Chisholm, Minnesota
AFL Club
Richmond
Other Teams
Nashville Predators
:thumbsu:I THINK we need to learn from past mistakes.
I looked at Dan Connors last night and thought his game - a clanger or two aside - was actually pretty decent.
Correct me if I am wrong, but this is his fourth year and he's only looking at becoming a regular.
Wallace near ruined his career by playing him for two games, demoting him back to Coburg and ignoring him for the next eight weeks before bringing him back for one or two more.
Learn from the past, what gain is there in demoting the likes of Nason, Roberts and Farmer after one week and playing them sparingly throughout the year.
You run the risk of turning them into Connors-like players, who only offer something four years into their career.
Pointless.
Give them an extended run and let them develop!

On changes ... the most logical change that is needed is bringing in another big body up forward. I see Riewoldt and Morton (who ain't really a key forward) being burnt out by round 12 if they are forced to continually shoulder all the hard work.
 

(Log in to remove this ad.)

raymagoo

Premiership Player
Joined
Feb 27, 2008
Posts
3,765
Likes
2,712
Location
Langwarrin
AFL Club
Carlton
great ethics guys, shooting them down before the game is anywhere near finished! true supporters not even watching! awesome! i thought jackson was pretty serviceable myself
 

"The Roar Is Back"

Brownlow Medallist
Joined
Mar 13, 2007
Posts
22,445
Likes
26,983
Location
THE TAN
AFL Club
Richmond
Thread starter #103
Thomson's slower than Tuck in both leg speed and reflexes and no amount of games or your self-delusion is going to change that MT.
The difference is Thompsons first reaction is to handball to someone in space Tuck and Jackson bang it on the boot and don't get all shirty rayzor it's clearly an observation !!!
 

"The Roar Is Back"

Brownlow Medallist
Joined
Mar 13, 2007
Posts
22,445
Likes
26,983
Location
THE TAN
AFL Club
Richmond
Thread starter #104
:thumbsu:I THINK we need to learn from past mistakes.
I looked at Dan Connors last night and thought his game - a clanger or two aside - was actually pretty decent.
Correct me if I am wrong, but this is his fourth year and he's only looking at becoming a regular.
Wallace near ruined his career by playing him for two games, demoting him back to Coburg and ignoring him for the next eight weeks before bringing him back for one or two more.
Learn from the past, what gain is there in demoting the likes of Nason, Roberts and Farmer after one week and playing them sparingly throughout the year.
You run the risk of turning them into Connors-like players, who only offer something four years into their career.
Pointless.
Give them an extended run and let them develop!

On changes ... the most logical change that is needed is bringing in another big body up forward. I see Riewoldt and Morton (who ain't really a key forward) being burnt out by round 12 if they are forced to continually shoulder all the hard work.
I agree in regards to Conners and I have in no way been a fan , in fact I have for very good reason doubted he would ever get the picture before he got the arse ! I still don't like that every time theres a scuffle he is involved and then at times shows a lack of urgency , but seeing Leppitch, what looked like paying out on him, at 3/4 time I think he's a chance !
 

Tomnat Tigers

Norm Smith Medallist
Joined
Oct 8, 2009
Posts
5,634
Likes
5,316
Location
Victoria
AFL Club
Richmond
Other Teams
Arsenal
I would keep roberts in and get him to get him to get his match fitness in training and game day just got a feeling he will loose some confidence if he were to be droped.
 

Thecho

Team Captain
Joined
Jul 16, 2008
Posts
369
Likes
11
Location
melb
AFL Club
Richmond
Gee whiz, everyone needs to calm down. We all were disappointed to some extent. There were also some positives to take as well.

For mine the only really change is a CHF. Whether Jack pushes up and we get someone else FF or we just bring in someone for that role I don't really mind. I like the look of Astbury, although I don't know when he will be back and we shouldn't give him so much responsibility. He is the sort of player we need, too often we looked for played like Hislop. Not sure who I'd want out though. Maybe Nahas but we do need some small up forward.

Thompson did okay, give him some game time to get up to match fitness. If he starts playing worse than I would swap him for Tucky but for now we need to see what he can do. We all know Tuck can win his own ball.

Simmonds as we all know is past it. I would keep him in next week as someone else stated the Bulldog's ruckmen aren't as mobile which will suit him. We need some big bodies out there. I would try give Vickery as much game time as possible. He is not ready yet but as long as his body is holding up he should improve. Hopefully this year he can have a break out game where he takes some big marks or kicks some important goals. Graham should come in if Simmonds keeps playing like last year.

Over the course of the year Post, Astbury, Collins, Foley, Gourdis, Taylor and even Grffiths should come in among some others. There is quite a bit of competition especially as I think Post, Astbury, Collins (even though he has had a bad pre season) and Foley can hold down positions.

so for mine:

out: Nahas
in: Post/ Polak
 

007Tigers

All Australian
Joined
Dec 22, 2007
Posts
930
Likes
179
Location
Melbourne
AFL Club
Richmond
i loved nason i though he was good, awesome pick up with pick 72 or whatever it was....

i agree nahas didnt have a good game but 3/4 of the team didnt....

if we need to make any changes id drop simmonds and prob moore.

man i wish they had of elevated the goo, could have smashed eddy betts up, i dont mind losing but when a shit player like betts looks good against us it pisses me off lol
 

Rayzorwire

Norm Smith Medallist
Joined
Feb 25, 2007
Posts
5,019
Likes
2,294
Location
FNQ
AFL Club
Richmond
The difference is Thompsons first reaction is to handball to someone in space Tuck and Jackson bang it on the boot
Thomson had 5 handballs and as mentioned, 50% efficiency...real in and under clearance machine. ;)

I had some rare free time through the day today and watched all our centre bounces and stoppages again, and it really reinforced that he was absolutely flogged by whoever we tried to shuffle him on to. Missed tackles galore, generally poor positioning, no physical pressure, poor timing, and maybe 5-6 decent possessions for the game.

He may find some role for a year or two as a 2nd/3rd rotation bench mid, but I'd be throwing 9-10 players in ahead of him because they have way more upside as I see it.

As for Jackson and Tuck banging it on the boot, every mid in the league does it in tight traffic. I think the only touch Cousins had in the first quarter which wasn't a turnover was a scrambled wobbly blind hack from a centre bounce which landed on one of our half-forwards' chests on the 50m arc. But it's quality football when he does it...right?

Skilled forwards capable of playing in front and turning their opponent or outmarking them are advantaged by any ball coming in quickly.
 

santa claws

Norm Smith Medallist
Joined
Nov 19, 2005
Posts
5,688
Likes
670
Location
perth
AFL Club
Richmond
Other Teams
west tigers. glenelg.
Mate you clearly have no idea. Farmer, Nason and Thomson were all good given expectations of players with little experience. Vickery was average but he's played about 10 games is a 2nd year ruckman, will be good. Most of the players you suggested to come in are ordinary and not the future.

OUT: Edwards (too many mistakes when he gets the footy), Simmonds (not the future, waste to play him and he was bad, one of McGuane/Thursfield or Moore.

IN: Collins (good young kid, play him. Will make it), Graham/Browne to replace Simmonds, Post/Astbury to come in and give us another tall target up forward.

Overall I wasn't too dissapointed with tonight's effort. Thomson and Hislop were actually not too bad IMHO and I'm not a fan normally. Nason, Martin, Roberts all solid debuts and showed signs. Farmer very, very good I thought. Beautiful long kicking, sticks to his man, makes the right decisions with the ball. Finally found the BP we're looking for IMO. A couple of disappointing efforts from senior players like Newman, Tambling but I won't go into that. We don't want to make sweeping changes and destroy their confidence.
hmm im all for giving nason and farmer a decent go but lets face it thomson played most of the game thru the midfield and managed just 14 possies. one big part of the problem was they could not get their hands on it and when they did they used it poorly.
nason and farmer struggled to get their hands on it as well while showing some good signs.

im sorry to say barnzy but thomson isnt up to standard. slow poorly skilled and like i said for a so called inside mid just doesnt get it.
the trouble is who to play in his place well imo there is only one option atm and thats tuck.

lets see assuming all are fit.

b; farmer - thursfield - mcguane there is no one else.
hb; tambling - post - connors as long as there is a match for him.
c; collins - martin - deledio
hf; morton - riewoldt - astbury.
f; cotchin - polak - nason.
r; simmonds - tuck - cousins.
int; newman - jackson - foley - vickery/browne/graham.
 

(Log in to remove this ad.)

T4P

Club Legend
Joined
Mar 24, 2008
Posts
2,462
Likes
982
Location
Australia
AFL Club
Richmond
You serious about Jackson? He was one of our best, he has gotten a lot bigger and his work inside was great in the first half. Only thing is that his kicking lets him down. He had a good game.

Out: Simmonds, McGuane
In: Post, Graham
 

PHX

Quarterback Style
Joined
Jan 15, 2006
Posts
33,009
Likes
6,694
Location
Oz
AFL Club
Richmond
Other Teams
Orlando Magic, Baltimore Ravens
I only care that Nahas and Moore are dropped.

Plenty of others ****ed up but had endeavor on their side (also I'll quietly question Connors' endeavour) and will only improve by slogging it out in the firsts trying to get this gameplan up and running under the rigours of AFL speed.

But Nahas just didn't look up to it and he gets knocked off the ball too easy and Moore is simply an undersized key defender who is 26 and not getting any better.

So

IN: Post, Polo/Collins/Taylor
OUT: Moore, Nahas
 

"The Roar Is Back"

Brownlow Medallist
Joined
Mar 13, 2007
Posts
22,445
Likes
26,983
Location
THE TAN
AFL Club
Richmond
Thread starter #114
As for Jackson and Tuck banging it on the boot, every mid in the league does it in tight traffic.
20 years ago when Mark Jackson and Micheal Tuck where playing yes , in this era no !!
Watch Geelong in tight they refuse to just bang it onto the boot, especially backward of the half forward line !!
Quite often as soon as these two grab the footy their opponent looks to find space !!
Both could be so much better players if their first option was to handball to someone , like a Deledio who can break the lines !!
 

CoggaRules

Brownlow Medallist
Joined
Apr 7, 2004
Posts
22,486
Likes
11,663
Location
Pluto
AFL Club
Richmond
Other Teams
TOO
Taylor, Polo, Graham, Polak or Post or Astbury in....Bling, Hislop, Vickery, Moore or Edwards out..

Before the fools go gaga with the Hislop out....Damien has to get this FL structure right...He has to have JR on a flank and Morton on the other flank, roberts and nahas crumbing and find two that work in the spine from Taylor, Post, Astbury, Polak, and until he is ready and they can have a good look at him, Griffiths.

Polak offers a ruck option as well, that far surpasses the Vickery non option. Got this bad feeling about this kid and why he got the gig at no8 too...because for sure and certain on what i can see in his initial foray into the big time, he didnt get it because of skill and talent..thats for ****ing sure, goof ball extraordinaire and i really cant find a skerrit of evidence that suggests being patient is going to do anything else but waste our time.

He needs to keep expermenting with combos, and not just going with a combo that aint gunna cut it in a million years.;)
 

TOOs_Finest

Norm Smith Medallist
Joined
Mar 2, 2009
Posts
7,933
Likes
2,101
Location
East of Melbourne
AFL Club
Richmond
Other Teams
Dallas Desire
Taylor, Polo, Graham, Polak or Post or Astbury in....Bling, Hislop, Vickery, Moore or Edwards out..

Before the fools go gaga with the Hislop out....Damien has to get this FL structure right...He has to have JR on a flank and Morton on the other flank, roberts and nahas crumbing and find two that work in the spine from Taylor, Post, Astbury, Polak, and until he is ready and they can have a good look at him, Griffiths.
Agree with this philosophy, but I am not willing to completely overlook the performances from last week. Thus, IMO, Hislop remains for either Nahas or Roberts.

Polak offers a ruck option as well, that far surpasses the Vickery non option. Got this bad feeling about this kid and why he got the gig at no8 too...because for sure and certain on what i can see in his initial foray into the big time, he didnt get it because of skill and talent..thats for ****ing sure, goof ball extraordinaire and i really cant find a skerrit of evidence that suggests being patient is going to do anything else but waste our time.
I'm pretty worried about Vickery also, and I think I know what you are insinuating about his selection at 8. If this were ever to become known as fact, then I would be ropable, regardless of how he progresses.

I think goof ball is off the mark, to me that suggests he is unco. With ball in his hands, he looks pretty skillful to me. The problem is he is 200cm and cannot even compete for a contested mark. And his body is just too small to be effective in ruck contests, especially around the ground.

Needs time in the VFL to get some confidence, and to learn a few things.
 
Joined
Jul 23, 2008
Posts
28
Likes
2
Location
Melbourne
AFL Club
Richmond
In my opionion, for whatever its worth, I seriously think we lack forward line structure. We can not simply rely on JR to be the sole tall forward. Not that he doesnt have the ability, it is just unrealistic for one player to take on this role. I know the club recruited tall forwards in astbury & griffiths but these guys may take time to develop. Not sure why Polak didnt get a game, particularly after being promoted off the rookie list, and what has Post done wrong to not even get a look in.

On occassions last year, Post looked like a strong marking and good option up forward. Then in true Tiger wisdom they moved him to the back line and that pretty much was the end of him. Moving him out of the forward line pissed me off, I think he can be a good forward and we all know he can take a grab.

If we are going to play a small forward line, then why do we kick the ball so high into that forward set up. Using the doggies as an example (pre Barry Hall) they drill the ball in low to the likes of Jono, Gia, Murph, Hahn, Hill, Aka & Higgins. None of these guys are tall, however delivery of the footy makes all the difference and they score heavily.

I know our skill level is no where near the doggies (at the moment), but I seriously think we need bring in a couple of talls and give them them time at FF & CHF. For mind, it has to be Polak & Post. It will give structure and purpose going into the forward line and if these guys can create a contest then it will bring in the guys we are currently relying on to kick our goals, ie. morton, nahas, nason, roberts. These guys will become secondary scoring options when the ball hits the ground.

I would love to see Richmond set up with a three tall forward structure of Polak, Post & JR. In fact the versatility of JR really sees it a two tall structure.

All successful teams have at least two tall options up forward and quite frankly we will go nowhere if we have to rely on one.

We talk about transformation and that it will take time, then why dont we put a forward line structure in place to transform the way the team plays.

We have all this 'tall timber' not playing and want little blokes to kick us a winning score..............we have no hope at the moment.

Our mids dont kick goals, so do something about it and create some forward options.
 

Bazzar

Hall of Famer
Joined
May 8, 2007
Posts
35,568
Likes
42,296
AFL Club
Richmond
An extra day or so to digest it all, and ill go -

In-
Graham
King

Out-
Roberts
Nahas.

Interesting grab in the paper today about Roberts old training ways. It was a few dim Sims, a can of coke and a smoke, then train. 12 months ago on a 3k time trial he couldnt even run 1k. It was Dean Rioli who has helped him with his diet and fitness. Its all good getting game time and match fitness, but he looked so under done I cant see him keeping his spot. So if Kingy has a good game today for the Burgers, he should come in as our hard working serial pest up forward.

And with Gus, we need an extra big hard bod especially to fill hole in front of Hall. Doesn’t seem to be too much love for the big fellar here, but he should be given just about every game from now on for the rest of the year.
 

TheUndertaker

The Phenom from Death Valley
Joined
Oct 2, 2008
Posts
6,792
Likes
9,486
Location
Death Valley
AFL Club
Richmond
Other Teams
Brothers of Destruction
I think what we actually need is a stable team to constantly play together and learn how to trust each other in defeat and victory.

We are looking at this team as a team full of individuals. But we are not looking at them as a team. Last thing I would want to do is constantly make changes to our line up, get the iffy players nervous about their place and have them play for themselves and not the team.

Also it works the other way aswell, I wouldn't want a player getting comfortable with his role since he always gets games. There has got to be a balance, you gotta give players a chance and let the team develop together.

Hislop and Jackson also played okay, there were worse than them (newman, vickery, simmonds).
 

sante

Emu is life
Joined
Oct 8, 2003
Posts
43,046
Likes
31,125
Location
RFC
AFL Club
Richmond
Other Teams
Portland Trailblazers
I'd say either no changes or maybe the one or two. Hardwick and co. will want to keep the same players in. Afterall, this is a year of teaching and learning.

Post in for Moore isn't a bad idea IMO. Although, Post should be forward.
 

Rayzorwire

Norm Smith Medallist
Joined
Feb 25, 2007
Posts
5,019
Likes
2,294
Location
FNQ
AFL Club
Richmond
20 years ago when Mark Jackson and Micheal Tuck where playing yes , in this era no !!
Just because you say it is so, doesn't actually make it true ptf. I wouldn't be surprised to learn you only listen to games on the radio you're so far off the mark time after time on the bleeding obvious.

I gave you an example of Cousins doing it and there were a heap of others through the game. Geelong do it all the time.

There is not a single side in the comp where their midfielders aren't specifically instructed to bang the ball on the boot and get it as far as possible to a dangerous spot (preferably inside-50) if they're about to be tackled from a centre square ball-up and have no options they can get the ball to before being brought down.

It happens from every team in every game, well over 20 times on average in total. Of course it's not an ideal way to go into attack and every side tries to minimise the amount of times they have to do it, but it's a midfield reality.

The fact that you don't know these things speaks volumes about your football knowledge, from a playing or spectating perspective.

Watch Geelong in tight they refuse to just bang it onto the boot, especially backward of the half forward line !!
Geelong's mids and flankers are infinitely better at finding space than ours, but they still have to kick for territory all the time. One of the key things which makes Geelong such a great side is the fact thatthey barely have anyone who can't receive an ordinary disposal and make it good by beating their opponent 1-on-1.
 

Big Bad Buddy

Premiership Player
Joined
Jul 2, 2008
Posts
4,650
Likes
249
Location
Somewhere
AFL Club
Richmond
Other Teams
Real Madrid, Liverpool
Richmond
B:
Shane Edwards, Jayden Post, Kel Moore
HB: Mitch Farmer, Luke McGuane, Will Thursfield
C: Dustin Martin, Brett Deledio, Chris Newman
HF: Tom Hislop, Jack Riewoldt, Richard Tambling
F: Mitch Morton, Troy Simmonds , Robin Nahas
Foll: Angus Graham, Daniel Jackson, Trent Cotchin
I/C: Ty Vickery, Ben Cousins, Daniel Connors, Adam Thomson
Emg: Ben Nason , Relton Roberts , Matthew White

Ins: Jayden Post, Angus Graham
Outs: Ben Nason , Relton Roberts(Needs some more fitness)

Bit hard on Nason and Roberts after they both played reasonable games. Graham to come back into the side and go as Number #1 ruck with Simmonds playing out of FF and Vickery on the bench. Simmonds may be too slow to get around the ground with other ruckman, but his experience may be too much to throw out of the side for A less in-experienced player i.e Browne/Graham. With Simmonds at FF, he gives us a tall option to kick it. Jayden Post at Full-Back relieves Thursfield/McGuane to play on Barry Hall, with Post/McGuane to pick up Hahn/Murphy.

Another player i wouldn't mind seeing in is Tuck, he goes in hard and wins the hard ball but i would leave Thomson in after he played not a bad game Thursday night.
 
Top Bottom