Unofficial Preview Changes - Round 23 Lions v North Melbourne

[SizeMatters]

North board really want the number 1 pick... pretty sad really.

 

[fanackapan]

Could well be since the knee reco he has lost confidence in that area of his game.
He is ok in a 1 on 1 contest, but when there is a pack situation he is normally the one sitting off the contest, like he was a small waiting to gather the ball once it hits the ground. But he is usually at the back rather than front and centre. And never gets it.

Not sure I quite agree. From what I see, he competes in a lot of these, but he just never looks like taking a contested mark in them (the way guys like Hipwood, Walker, McStay and Andrews do). He brings a lot of balls to ground, which might be good value if we had good crumbing forwards (we have some mids who do this OK, but not as a full-time gig).

 

[Dylan12]

North board really want the number 1 pick... pretty sad really.

What is their reasoning, or lack thereof for wanting it?

 

[snooplions]

What is their reasoning, or lack thereof for wanting it?

All to do with their pursuit of Kelly from GWS.

 

[John_Proctor]

Barrett is third at the club for tackles on the season - only had 2 on the weekend but overall he has been playing his role. Need to be mindful of picking players for roles... I don't see us dropping him for Keays who might be a better player but has been performing as a midfielder in the reserves not a small forward, so don't think that move makes sense.

Allison I think has had a great start. he is averaging 320 metres gained (about 8th on our team) for a club that has traditionally lacked run and carry I think that is an important little stat to be mindful of. For comparison Bewick averages 200 metres gained, C Beams 160, Harwood 120m. (note Barrett is only about 130m but again plays as a small forward).

I think Close has been doing a lot of unsung work the last couple of weeks but I'm not convinced with him personally or the three talls set up. Doubt we would change that set up for the last game of the season though and don't think any KPP has knocked down the door in reserves to get a call up. The only change I would foresee is maybe bring in Archie in response to North's two headed rucking especially as Martin tends to struggle against giant bigs like Preuss.

While I think McLuggage's form warrants dropping I'm not sure that would happen for the final round. Would be a little confidence hit we wouldn't want him t otake going into pre-season. AND I think what he does he does well so a little bit of class is welcome.

Surely C Beams is on his way out the door at the end of the season. Just don't think you can have the output he has after 7/8 years on the list, noting that this year has had minimal injury disruptions (by his standards at least). He averages less tackles than all of our first year players. and only about 12/13 possessions a game.

In summary.

If Berry is fit in for Beams.
Maybe Smith in for Close.

 

[Comeback Lions]

Close & Hipwood very different players however if you want to compare stats (which is another bad comparison) Hippy had far more goal assists & constructive influences on the game than Closey. Closey is a big bodied, lumbering young fella who needs to contest for marks and use his body to advantage which he seldom does for me. For his size, he often under sells his opportunities which the coaching staff are working on with him. If they can get him to become a strong bodied target, he will be a big asset to the team but he's yet to show that right now. Might need to instill more self belief/confidence in him to go out there & be more agressive. (kinda what Hipwood does now at 19)

You might be right that Hipwood had more influence, but from watching the game I didn't have that feeling. Agree with you that stats don't necessarily prove much. Close certainly contests marks, but if he could use his body to more advantage and clunk more, that would be great. I have no doubt that the coaches are working with him on this. My impression is that he would be leading the team in goal assists in the NEAFL. He's only played 11 senior games in the last 2 years, since he did his ACL. I don't think he's had a glut of opportunities.

 

[Jpw22511]

Surely C Beams is on his way out the door at the end of the season. Just don't think you can have the output he has after 7/8 years on the list, noting that this year has had minimal injury disruptions (by his standards at least). He averages less tackles than all of our first year players. and only about 12/13 possessions a game.

Sure cut beams while we keep frost on the list?

 

[dlanod]

Sure cut beams while we keep frost on the list?

One is contracted, one isn't.

 

[Milk Steak]

We need to win to avoid the spoon - we are not going to hand out games.

Only change would be Berry in if fit maybe for c beams.

I think some are being harsh on mccluggage -imo no way does he get dropped. I thought today he did some really nice stuff. Maybe some need to look at that rather than just a few mistakes here and there.

I think McCluggage will end up being a great player,you can see the potential, but we seem to have double standards sometimes in regards to young players. You have to give young talented kids games,but they also have to earn it too. I know Hugh is skinny,but he needs to contribute more by sticking tackles and going for the hard ball. There's a lot of, dare I say "softish" efforts from Clugga in some aspects this year and he really needs to pick up that side of his game next season as we have good players to come back from injury,other young players fighting for spots in the reserves and another likely young top drafted midfielder gunning for a place in the 22. There'll be far less games gifted next year, something that players like McCluggage and Cox, who are super talented,but lacking a defensive side and that real intensity,will find out.

 

[dlanod]

I think McCluggage will end up being a great player,you can see the potential, but we seem to have double standards sometimes in regards to young players. You have to give young talented kids games,but they also have to earn it too.

I get what you're saying in the rest of the post, but you also have to look at the other options when claiming players are gifted games. These are the midfield or midfield-adjacent players who have spent most of the year in the reserves:

• Jensen
• Grewar
• Hanley
• Lyons
• Clayton
• Bewick
• Keays

Three most likely done and dusteds, three who have less experience than McCluggage, and Keays. It's not really gifting Hugh games when he is clearly a better option than most of the potential replacements, even now with flaws.

 

[Milk Steak]

I get what you're saying in the rest of the post, but you also have to look at the other options when claiming players are gifted games. These are the midfield or midfield-adjacent players who have spent most of the year in the reserves:

• Jensen
• Grewar
• Hanley
• Lyons
• Clayton
• Bewick
• Keays

Three most likely done and dusteds, three who have less experience than McCluggage, and Keays. It's not really gifting Hugh games when he is clearly a better option than most of the potential replacements, even now with flaws.

Yeah true,I see what you're saying. In saying that though, Keays also has his flaws,but he tackles hard and puts good pressure on and if we're going on contribution I'd say Keays deserves a regular spot more. I have nothing against McLuggage,he's a smart footballer and potentially a very good one.

 

[John_Proctor]

and I think the interesting question on 'gifted games' comes next year.

We have the 'best 22' we've played since the bye + Robinson and Christensen + potentially three more top 20 picks. based on this year those top 20 picks might expect to play 10+ games... however they would largely be coming at the expense of this years top draft picks (depending on position).

We've found some depth this year pushing Bell (pre injury), Beams, Harwood, Bewick out of the team. Next year those guys (if still on list) will be last in the pecking order.

I get what you're saying in the rest of the post, but you also have to look at the other options when claiming players are gifted games. These are the midfield or midfield-adjacent players who have spent most of the year in the reserves:

• Jensen
• Grewar
• Hanley
• Lyons
• Clayton
• Bewick
• Keays

Three most likely done and dusteds, three who have less experience than McCluggage, and Keays. It's not really gifting Hugh games when he is clearly a better option than most of the potential replacements, even now with flaws.

 

[dlanod]

Yeah true,I see what you're saying. In saying that though, Keays also has his flaws,but he tackles hard and puts good pressure on and if we're going on contribution I'd say Keays deserves a regular spot more. I have nothing against McLuggage,he's a smart footballer and potentially a very good one.

Keays was definitely the stand out in that list. I'm not sure why he didn't get more games.

 

[Comeback Lions]

Keays was definitely the stand out in that list. I'm not sure why he didn't get more games.

There's also Cutler and Paparone who have at times played that outside mid role. Games this year: McCluggage 17, Cutler 12, Keays 10, Bewick 8, Claye Beams 8, Paparone 6, Allison 4, Jansen 1. The others 0.

Keays has often played Barrett's (16 games) role in the ones and midfield in the twos. Also Mathieson (12 games) has tended to take Ben's natural midfield role. I don't think Ben has been hard done by, if you consider the above list. Probably working on his disposal in the twos. I also agree with Milk Steak that McCluggage will have to do more next year to get the same number of games.

 

[Crusha]

I think McCluggage will end up being a great player,you can see the potential, but we seem to have double standards sometimes in regards to young players. You have to give young talented kids games,but they also have to earn it too. I know Hugh is skinny,but he needs to contribute more by sticking tackles and going for the hard ball. There's a lot of, dare I say "softish" efforts from Clugga in some aspects this year and he really needs to pick up that side of his game next season as we have good players to come back from injury,other young players fighting for spots in the reserves and another likely young top drafted midfielder gunning for a place in the 22. There'll be far less games gifted next year, something that players like McCluggage and Cox, who are super talented,but lacking a defensive side and that real intensity,will find out.

Ditto and Thank you ....... I was beginning to think I was the only one ...... !!!

My only change would be that i am not so convinced about your "long term" view on him ... I can't envisage him becoming a great player until I see some bottle.

I have been watching him very closely since I first sensed this side to him, and I must say it has not improved. I really hope it does come good with adding some bulk ..... but right now his "softness" is bordering on being Polec/Aish like ..... .

I know there are many who will not agree. To them I just say ... have a close look yourself without the rose-coloured glasses.

I can excuse young players losing contests because of a lack of size/weight/strength etc, so long as they are having a "dip". It's the shortening of stride to avoid getting to where a physical contest would be required, the quick dump off disposals to avoid contests, the failure to provide a shepherd when required, and other similar actions to avoid contact situations that have been catching my eye.
Again, I hope he turns this around (we certainly need him to do so). But right now he is being gifted games. The AFL side is not where he should be learning how to cope with bigger bodies .... that's what the NEAFL is for ........ (rant over)

ps I guess it doesn't help him when his mate (Berry) is much the polar opposite (bigger body notwithstanding)

 

[Forward We Go]

Barrett is third at the club for tackles on the season - only had 2 on the weekend but overall he has been playing his role. Need to be mindful of picking players for roles... I don't see us dropping him for Keays who might be a better player but has been performing as a midfielder in the reserves not a small forward, so don't think that move makes sense.

Allison I think has had a great start. he is averaging 320 metres gained (about 8th on our team) for a club that has traditionally lacked run and carry I think that is an important little stat to be mindful of. For comparison Bewick averages 200 metres gained, C Beams 160, Harwood 120m. (note Barrett is only about 130m but again plays as a small forward).

I think Close has been doing a lot of unsung work the last couple of weeks but I'm not convinced with him personally or the three talls set up. Doubt we would change that set up for the last game of the season though and don't think any KPP has knocked down the door in reserves to get a call up. The only change I would foresee is maybe bring in Archie in response to North's two headed rucking especially as Martin tends to struggle against giant bigs like Preuss.

While I think McLuggage's form warrants dropping I'm not sure that would happen for the final round. Would be a little confidence hit we wouldn't want him t otake going into pre-season. AND I think what he does he does well so a little bit of class is welcome.

Surely C Beams is on his way out the door at the end of the season. Just don't think you can have the output he has after 7/8 years on the list, noting that this year has had minimal injury disruptions (by his standards at least). He averages less tackles than all of our first year players. and only about 12/13 possessions a game.

In summary.

If Berry is fit in for Beams.
Maybe Smith in for Close.

Watched the replay again last night and noticed that Allison was extremely undisciplined when it came to defence. Saw Fagan a couple of times speak to him during the game (on the day, not on replay) and assume it was about this. The number of times he remained flat footed when the ball was coming out of our forward 50 was huge. Agree that he is off to a good start but (like all our young listed players) needs to work much harder imo.

 

[Forward We Go]

There's also Cutler and Paparone who have at times played that outside mid role. Games this year: McCluggage 17, Cutler 12, Keays 10, Bewick 8, Claye Beams 8, Paparone 6, Allison 4, Jansen 1. The others 0.

Keays has often played Barrett's (16 games) role in the ones and midfield in the twos. Also Mathieson (12 games) has tended to take Ben's natural midfield role. I don't think Ben has been hard done by, if you consider the above list. Probably working on his disposal in the twos. I also agree with Milk Steak that McCluggage will have to do more next year to get the same number of games.

Don't think Ben has adapted to the pace of the top level this year. He looks rushed every time he has the ball & panics a bit.... hence often messing up his disposals. I'm confident that Ben will become a regular senior player given time more so than Mathieson who somehow needs to lift his workrate around the ground. I guess the midfield is one area where there is fierce competition and also an area where we are looking for dramatic improvement next year. This years draft will be interesting as I am sure we will have at least 1 more young mid in the mix.

 

[Fatcat08]

Don't think Ben has adapted to the pace of the top level this year. He looks rushed every time he has the ball & panics a bit.... hence often messing up his disposals. I'm confident that Ben will become a regular senior player given time more so than Mathieson who somehow needs to lift his workrate around the ground. I guess the midfield is one area where there is fierce competition and also an area where we are looking for dramatic improvement next year. This years draft will be interesting as I am sure we will have at least 1 more young mid in the mix.

I feel like he's been more flat footed this year. While not having super pace I always thought of him as a reasonably quick player that mainly came about due to the fact that he was one of those guys who was always on the move round a contest. He seems to have lost that a bit, maybe due to not being confident enough to back himself. I think he'll get there as he becomes more confident that his reading of the contest translates to AFL footy and he gets back on the move again.

 

[Cockliff38]

I think the general problem with Keays is he's thinking about his next move before completing the current move - i.e. while picking up the ball he'll be working out who to give it to, which often means he takes his eye off the ball and fumbles. This in itself is probably adjusting to the pace of the AFL. I only watch the NEAFL games that are streamed but to me the fumbles aren't so apparent at that level

 

[WhiteLionFeva]

I would have thought the club would be quietly happy with Matho's development. Genuinely seems to be on an upward curve and can only get better as his fitness increases. Even his disposal seems to have improved which was one of his key weaknesses coming into this year.

 

[KissKiss]

I think the general problem with Keays is he's thinking about his next move before completing the current move - i.e. while picking up the ball he'll be working out who to give it to, which often means he takes his eye off the ball and fumbles. This in itself is probably adjusting to the pace of the AFL. I only watch the NEAFL games that are streamed but to me the fumbles aren't so apparent at that level

In a way he kinds of reminds me of NRobbo last year. We could see the talent but was struggling with the timing of things (hence Keays fumbling a lot)

 

[Cockliff38]

In a way he kinds of reminds me of NRobbo last year. We could see the talent but was struggling with the timing of things (hence Keays fumbling a lot)

Yeah not bad.

FWIW I'm not worried about Keays. After this year it's pretty clear we have a solid development program in place

 

[Cockliff38]

Translation: choo choo

Jack Ziebell, Todd Goldstein, Brayden Preuss and Jarrad Waite are all in doubt but will be given until the last minute to prove their fitness.

Goldstein is perhaps most in doubt with two injuries – he copped a scratch to the eye in the game against the Saints, and also received a hit to the knee late in the game.

Source - NM website

 

[dlanod]

Heh "received a hit to the knee".

22 players out with "foot injuries" - "Their foot hit the ground in the game."

 

[scott_the_man]

Surely Brad Scott gets the sack if we thump North this week?