Changes Round 3

[DoubleA]

atm i realise we are in no position to drop astbury with post gourdis struggling at coburg moore injured and mcguane and rance suspended.

if we had decent options atm i would definately send astbury back to coburg for a stint.
sometimes getting lots of ball having a win over your opponent and gaining confidence is more important than batting and struggling out of your depth.
lets be honest astbury while looking promising last yr was mainly ordinary in the overall scheme of things.
this yr hes dropped away even more. imo its time to give him a break go to coburg find some much needed touch ball and confidence.
this is in no way saying he should be dropped for the yr far from it we do need to get as many games as is practicable into him.
lets develop him properly not destroy him.

When the team is full strength, does Griffiths go to CHB with Rance/McGuane and Astbury go to CHF with Vickery?

 

[Bazzar]

When the team is full strength, does Griffiths go to CHB with Rance/McGuane and Astbury go to CHF with Vickery?

I know its comedy week in Melbourne, but really

 

[MightyTiger]

Nahas to FB and Conca to FF.

 

[Bazzar]

Nahas to FB and Conca to FF.

And Lids our Sub

 

[santa claws]

for the smart arses hes had a total of 16 possesions and for a bloke whos 195cm taken just 2 uncontested marks. hes also getting pushed around in physical contests. just how long do you allow this to go on for.

what has astbury done so far in his short career to warrant automatic selection in the seniors.
as stated by all means get as many games as is prcticable into him this does not apply to just astbury but all of the kids who can handle a game. does say dylan grimes not deserve a game or does his development have to be done solely at coburg what is the difference between the two.
we are in need of three tall defenders this week imo only the need of the team will see astbury front up again most likely with thursfield and hopefully grimes.we need to ensure our kids are developed properly and they actually earn their spot.

i will say again im not having a go at astbury but at what stage do you say hey he needs to find some touch and confidence. how can 5 touches and get pushed around be good for development or confidence.
this does not apply to just astbury but all of our younger players.

playing in the vfl and doing really well against men is not the end of the world in fact its been shown to be a good thing in most cases. blind fred can see hes struggled both games there is no hiding that.imo if we were not so short of tall defenders i personally would send him to coburg.
in saying all this he may turn it around nxt week but i seriously doubt it. i wouldnt put so much pressure on him to perform at this stage of his career id be wanting him to get a kick and enjoy it.

 

[Bazzar]

for the smart arses

Lol, first we were ferals, now we are smart arses.

 

[santa claws]

Lol, first we were ferals, now we are smart arses.

what you cant be both.

 

[santa claws]

as good a place as any. a question.
who do we consider our small players.
for me nahas, houli, foley, white, edwards, king, and though hes 185cm at 77kg and the role hes been asked to do ive included helbig.
would people agree with this.

 

[MightyTiger]

what you cant be both.

Tell us what you really think SC, surely 50% of the group should be dropped/delisted by years end.

 

[santa claws]

Tell us what you really think SC, surely 50% of the group should be dropped/delisted by years end.

now now dont go putting words in my mouth.
a simple question or two.
1 do you think astbury has struggled so far or not this yr. i only ask this yr personally i think he struggled for a lot of the time last yr. now dont take that badly i didnt expect too much from him last yr or this yr, anyway the question stands do you think hes struggled thus far this yr.
2 if you agree hes struggled at what point do you drop him or do you just keep on playing him and drain every skerrick of confidence out of him.
remember im not calling for his head this week i think we have no choice but to give him a game.

oh and if you reply how about answering the question about smalls.

 

[folester41]

edwards and houli have to pull their fingers out next week or they are in big trouble, also nahas keeps trying hard but please get him out of the team.

cant wait till griffiths is fit, we need him.

 

[Mr Magic]

Those supporting White for tagging roles are missing the point IMO.

You can't win premierships with attacking forwards playing exclusive defensive roles on defenders. So the white role is futile IMO.

Also , worrying about containing Buddy is pointless for this weeks selection.

Hawthorn are contenders, we aren't. We are in development so if a youngster like Grimes or whoever can get experience playing on the likes of Buddy even in scoreboard defeat we are still winning regarding direction towards the cup like GC but without the acute pain of a slaughter!!

Everything in moderation but youth is the way IMO

 

[santa claws]

Those supporting White for tagging roles are missing the point IMO.

You can't win premierships with attacking forwards playing exclusive defensive roles on defenders. So the white role is futile IMO.

here here well said.

 

[MightyTiger]

now now dont go putting words in my mouth.
a simple question or two.
1 do you think astbury has struggled so far or not this yr. i only ask this yr personally i think he struggled for a lot of the time last yr. now dont take that badly i didnt expect too much from him last yr or this yr, anyway the question stands do you think hes struggled thus far this yr.
2 if you agree hes struggled at what point do you drop him or do you just keep on playing him and drain every skerrick of confidence out of him.
remember im not calling for his head this week i think we have no choice but to give him a game.

oh and if you reply how about answering the question about smalls.

I'm just messing with ya SC.

(1) Yes he has struggled, but he played on Archer against St Kilda and beat him quite comfortable, admittedly he didn't get high numbers and missed a couple marks he should have taken but when he had the ball he made the correct decisions all the time and looked calm under pressure.

(2) I wouldn't send him back, it would kill his confidence even more sending him back to the Burgers, and lets be honest he hasn't been terribly bad, he played on a 200+ CM giants against Carlton and then did a good job on Archer against St Kilda.

The kid will find form, it may take 6-7 games but we must keep persisting in developing our future, Astbury will learn more this year then he would have last year, he will get the bigger jobs and every game he plays he will learn something vital that will hold him in good stead when he gets into his 4th-5th year as a KPP.

 

[santa claws]

I'm just messing with ya SC.

(1) Yes he has struggled, but he played on Archer against St Kilda and beat him quite comfortable, admittedly he didn't get high numbers and missed a couple marks he should have taken but when he had the ball he made the correct decisions all the time and looked calm under pressure.

(2) I wouldn't send him back, it would kill his confidence even more sending him back to the Burgers, and lets be honest he hasn't been terribly bad, he played on a 200+ CM giants against Carlton and then did a good job on Archer against St Kilda.

The kid will find form, it may take 6-7 games but we must keep persisting in developing our future, Astbury will learn more this year then he would have last year, he will get the bigger jobs and every game he plays he will learn something vital that will hold him in good stead when he gets into his 4th-5th year as a KPP.

thanks for the reply.
disagree anyway. would say we had a 3 on 1 situation against carlton when waite went down yet we could not capitalise on it.
friday he was terrible thank god he played on a rookie. we agree on one thing hes struggling and hes struggled for awhile now.
for yrs we have continually gifted games to players based on potential alone. in fairness for yrs we hardly had a replacement when it came to talls to try instead.
that is not the case now. one big part of our poor culture has been this gifting games to players. i want to see this change.
let me also say a player can develop just as well in the magoos as at afl level its not a bad thing.
i will reiterate it has to be better sometimes just to have your players getting plenty of the ball and gaining confidence.

i remember in 09 jack being sent back to coburg having struggled to find the ball. he went back for a few weeks got his hands on it kicked goals including a bag of 5 i think and came back a better more confident player having found some touch and form.

for me astbury is at the point where he just needs some games where he can find plenty of the ball.i dont believe that can happen at afl level atm.

 

[santa claws]

as good a place as any. a question.
who do we consider our small players.
for me nahas, houli, foley, white, edwards, king, and though hes 185cm at 77kg and the role hes been asked to do ive included helbig.
would people agree with this.

seems noone has an opinion on this. i will take it most would agree with it.

 

[Bazzar]

seems noone has an opinion on this. i will take it most would agree with it.

Big dilemma. Last year Edwards was top ten in 11 of 12 KPI`s. His detractors can not dismiss that. The coaching staff would spoof em selves over a quick, quality small like that. Trouble is, he has been very slow out of the blocks so far this year.

Dimma said last week it’s a dilemma dropping the better players after some ordinary performances, and make no mistake, Tich is quality with some minor flaws. So is he safe?

If he survives this week and has another ordinary game he has to be dropped.

Move to Nahas.

29 touches in 2 games, BUT only 7 other Tigers have more possessions in both games.

3rd in handballs.

4th in tackles.

11th in marks.

Not sure about the Tankers game as I only have the Saints stats for this, but he was -

Equal 3rd with Dusty for the new Champ data Pressure Acts with 16.

And equal second with Cotch and Grigg for Score Involvements with 6

So it puzzles me those who want him dropped. If it was to happen, it would only be for a tall for match up.

So far Nahas has been (with White) Dimmas new revelation.

 

[Richo_Daffy]

as much as houli hasnt been tearing it up with the ball he hasnt been that bad. i saw him play against adelaide in the pre season and he does a lot of running off the ball to make space for his teamates. now i havent been able to go to the 2 games this year to see if he has done it again because on tv u cant tell. if ur at the game this week and if u have some time to take ur eye off all the action, watch him and im pretty sure ull see him doing a lot of things off the ball for his teamates. and imo and a lot of others edwards just has no idea what he is doing out there. but back on topic mcguane out and edwards hopefully to be never seen again unless he is tearing it up at coburg and even then id be sceptical and in comes thursfield and tuck.

 

[MightyTiger]

thanks for the reply.
disagree anyway. would say we had a 3 on 1 situation against carlton when waite went down yet we could not capitalise on it.
friday he was terrible thank god he played on a rookie. we agree on one thing hes struggling and hes struggled for awhile now.
for yrs we have continually gifted games to players based on potential alone. in fairness for yrs we hardly had a replacement when it came to talls to try instead.
that is not the case now. one big part of our poor culture has been this gifting games to players. i want to see this change.
let me also say a player can develop just as well in the magoos as at afl level its not a bad thing.
i will reiterate it has to be better sometimes just to have your players getting plenty of the ball and gaining confidence.

i remember in 09 jack being sent back to coburg having struggled to find the ball. he went back for a few weeks got his hands on it kicked goals including a bag of 5 i think and came back a better more confident player having found some touch and form.

for me astbury is at the point where he just needs some games where he can find plenty of the ball.i dont believe that can happen at afl level atm.

seems noone has an opinion on this. i will take it most would agree with it.

ARGHHHHHHHHHHHH, SC I had written a juicy reply to both of your posts and my browser closed on itself!! lol

Anyway I think he hasn't been in that poor form, he got monstered by the bigger and stronger Carlton rucks, and kept Archer in close check the whole night.

Needs to work on his body on body work, and be a bit more composed when the ball is coming in on top of his head.

Last year he was used as a floating back flanker and occasionally taking on the forwards of similar size to him, we saw in the NAB cup against Carlton that he can play that role well, but I think he's just coming to terms with having to use his body to out position his opponent.

I say give him until round 4-5 if things don't change maybe give Grimes a go and as you said, let him gather his confidence in the 2s.

 

[evo]

Webberley in for Edwards.

Thursty for Mcguane

Tuck in for someone. We have to win the clearances. Melbourne got spanked once the Hawks starting winning the stoppages.

 

[MightyTiger]

Webberley in for Edwards.

Thursty for Mcguane

Tuck in for someone. We have to win the clearances. Melbourne got spanked once the Hawks starting winning the stoppages.

And we broke even, if not a couple more clearances with one of, if not the best midfields in the competition.

We need to exploit Hawthorns lack of leg speed, not bring in someone who will suit there midfield like Tuck who lacks leg speed himself.

 

[Mr Magic]

Big dilemma. Last year Edwards was top ten in 11 of 12 KPI`s. His detractors can not dismiss that. The coaching staff would spoof em selves over a quick, quality small like that. Trouble is, he has been very slow out of the blocks so far this year.

Dimma said last week it’s a dilemma dropping the better players after some ordinary performances, and make no mistake, Tich is quality with some minor flaws. So is he safe?

If he survives this week and has another ordinary game he has to be dropped.

Move to Nahas.

29 touches in 2 games, BUT only 7 other Tigers have more possessions in both games.

3rd in handballs.

4th in tackles.

11th in marks.

Not sure about the Tankers game as I only have the Saints stats for this, but he was -

Equal 3rd with Dusty for the new Champ data Pressure Acts with 16.

And equal second with Cotch and Grigg for Score Involvements with 6

So it puzzles me those who want him dropped. If it was to happen, it would only be for a tall for match up.

So far Nahas has been (with White) Dimmas new revelation.

The problem with Nahas IMO is not him getting the ball, but his effectiveness delivering the ball forward. This is open to interpretation and is about to do with synergy and less to do with stats, or it is to do with stats no one measures. Nahas enhances our chances of getting beat simply because he lacks the strength in the contest as well IMO.

White on the other hand does little creativity wise but at least is semi effective in a role. Long term both need to improve massively to last and frankly I never saw that type of improvement in either but, I am not going to do a D King with K Hunt, and rule/discount them out altogether. Happy for them to prove me wrong

 

[James_Best]

im glad none of you guys are on the selection panel. otherwise every player on our list would be used after 3 rounds regardless of form or injury.

the team is playing well so far, give the boys a chance to gel together.

one change for mine;

mcguance out (susp) - in thurstfield.

that is all.

 

[Tiger Fury #3]

B - Newman Thursfield Grimes

HB -Connors Astbury Conca

C - Grigg Jackson Foley

HF - Martin Vickery White

F - King Riewoldt Morton

R - Graham Deledio Cotchin

Inter - Nahas Batchelor
Helbig Houli


Out - Mguane (Susp) Edwards

In - Thursfield Grimes

 

[Rancid_Beasties]

Out: McGuane
In: Thursfield

Thursfield does not deserve the game from what I saw of his game for coburg.