Preview Changes: Round 8 Vs Brisbane Lions + pre-match discussion

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Joao

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He is too small and slow. Midgets need to have standout class/speed/smarts. Not just be battlers. He tries hard and I like his attitude, but unfortunately I don't think he can succeed at AFL level.
He's plenty fast enough, his problem is he hasn't found enough ball when played in the middle at AFL level.
 

Docker82

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We are a team with a lot of poorly skilled players with "redeeming features". Hughes has poor skills, but boy is he tough. Reece has poor skills, but he is a great club man. Logue has poor skills but he's big and athletic. Freddy has poor skills but boy can he run fast. Schultz has poor skills but he gives 100% every contest. Our goal kicking is atrocious but at least we get lots off shots.

For years we have bemoaned the lack of skills, and rightly so. Not every player in a team will be silky skilled and you need some work horses. But given a choice between playing Freddy and Henry, I'm putting the time into the one with skills. Crowden vs Sturt, I'm picking the natural goal kicker. Lobb or Treacy, give me the guy who is a natural forward. Schultz or Western, give me Western's speed AND skills.

You can't have a whole team of kids, but if we're getting games into kids get them into the most talented and skilled kids. The young kids being asked to do the tough work are just getting smashed. Leave that to the mature guys and let the kids show off their skills.

We will still get beaten, but maybe we see some hope for the future.
I’m going to defend Schultz here. He’s done very well all but two games this season where we’ve been smashed. His set shots are quite good. Every good team has players like him too. It’s all great to say add more skill and speed but there’s a balance. None of the guys you’ve mentioned have a proven record of applying defensive pressure.

What you’ve somewhat ignored is that neither Frederick or Crowden were drafted as forwards, whilst the guys you’ve mentioned as potential replacements very much were.

I only questioned how ready Henry is for AFL footy. I wouldn’t mind seeing him put a good month in for Peel before we consider him again (he’s half way there) For the record, I 100% want Sturt and/or Western in the side over Frederick or Crowden.
 

Johnny Dalmas

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100% agree with your assessment on Freddy.

If we include Henry in the side, I'm not convinced we won't be saying the same thing about him this time next week. Having said that Henry has never had an extended run in the side to prove himself.
I reckon we've been a bit tough on Henry. His first taste of senior footy was his AFL debut. And that off a long-term injury.

The kid went from unfinished high school footy season to long term injury to AFL debut. That is one hell of a jump. Correct me if I'm wrong, but I think he has still played more AFL footy than WAFL footy.

If he comes in and stars, he's on pace to be the next Chris Judd.
 

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Johnny Dalmas

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I watched Daniher closely as he is in fantasy team. Dude would have to be one of the top 3 most talented players in the league and easily. Also must be one of the most lazy and soft players going.

He just makes some things look ridiculously easy when he tries and then barely competes in contests, never chases or tackles. Must be infuriating for his coaches. Could legit be as good as buddy if he had a decent work ethic and some hardness.

To your point, depends on whether he bothers to try. Hipwood aint that good but he can do damage if not defended properly for sure.
You get the feeling watching Daniher that its just a game, not a career. Perhaps he would be just as happy playing Sunday ammos? But then I;m sure he would miss the cash ...
 

Madas

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Freddy just needs to put on some size. He's yet to win a 1 on 1 contest in his career.
Nah He's got the build just needs confidence
A natural athlete like him doesn't just fumble the ball , it's in his head .
To me it doesn't matter anymore this year, we aren't going anywhere special .
So if players need game time and we see them as the future then play them .
I guess competition for a position is the only reason they would go back to WAFL .
Agree with others that Lobb probably isn't going to be dropped but him and Crowden and probably Freddy need to get the message .
Give Meek , Henry and Sturt a run , they would be like for like replacements.
 

stax on the mull

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Sturt vs Hawthorn was coming in off limited preparation and also the fact that we had a lot of talls in the forward 50 with Darcy, Taberner, Treacy and Fyfe that would have made his role more difficult.

He might go better with different mix of talls.
 

clivenator26

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Hughes - Ryan if fit, if not Duman
Lobb - Treacy or Meek or freaking Peter Miller, just anyone.
Crowden - Henry, Crowden may not have been drafted as a forward but if he isn’t hitting his tackles he is worthless to us. Henry may be getting some gifted games but long term it helps us.
Freddy (if inj) - Sturt
Chappy (if inj) - Duman but if Ryan not fit Sturt.
 

Johnny Dalmas

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Watching Footy Classified last night and Matthew Lloyd talked about how upset Longmuir seemed to be with the playing group when Lloyd interviewed him on Melbourne radio.

If that is correct and the playing didn't do what the coach wanted, then I hope he starts dropping players. Regardless of pay grade. If we have a plan but you can't stick to your role then there is no place for you.
 

wayToGo_

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After taking the emotion out from a hard loss I've accepted we are probably going to struggle until we start getting some defenders not only back but also in form (eg Logue looks a fair way off atm).

You can't lose your AA general down back, Young not be available to slot in to play distributor, be missing your two big negators as options, Logue coming back in underdone, Hughes being subbed out early in the 2nd, young Chapman getting injured early and carrying his arm like it is in a sling for the rest of the game and then expect your back line to hold up against the most effective line-up of tall forwards in the AFL. If WC's back line had a similar injury scenario during the game and had to defend against their own forward line it would have been a similar slaughterhouse. It was a poor performance from the back line but I can understand and accept why it happened, and also why they will continue to struggle against half decent forward lines until we get some defenders back (and tighten up the team defence). If both Hughes, Chapman and Ryan are injured I have no idea who comes in because the cupboard is bare at Peel? We might have no other option but to push Aish back. Seems incredible given how many defenders we have on our list atm.

On the midfield front I'm still a bit perplexed at how poorly we performed. I get that the Nic Nat factor was huge. If a ruck is getting 8 centre clearances then he's clearly making a fairly big impact on the result, especially when all WC really needed to do with their dominant forward line was get the ball forward of centre to score. He had 9 score involvements, 6 of those scores he started from the centre. He got 2 centre clearances last week against Geelong and only had 1 score involvement/launch. If you're not going to mitigate it like Geelong did then you're fighting an uphill battle with the knock-on effect to the midfield's mindset overall. Maybe that is the explanation, as our mids got sucked into the contest in the 2nd half probably to quell NN's influence and allowed Kelly/Gaff/etc to sit back and dine out? If there is one thing that needs to change next week, it is that. Simply cannot get sucked into the contest and get carved up on the outside of the contest or the Brisbane forwards will likely destroy us by an even larger margin than WC did.

It was a whole team issue so I'm not expecting more than one or two sacrificial scapegoats to try and satisfy the Twitter mob. The forced changes will likely be in defence so I'm expecting Giro in so Aish can go back.
 

tonygeeks

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After taking the emotion out from a hard loss I've accepted we are probably going to struggle until we start getting some defenders not only back but also in form (eg Logue looks a fair way off atm).

You can't lose your AA general down back, Young not be available to slot in to play distributor, be missing your two big negators as options, Logue coming back in underdone, Hughes being subbed out early in the 2nd, young Chapman getting injured early and carrying his arm like it is in a sling for the rest of the game and then expect your back line to hold up against the most effective line-up of tall forwards in the AFL. If WC's back line had a similar injury scenario during the game and had to defend against their own forward line it would have been a similar slaughterhouse. It was a poor performance from the back line but I can understand and accept why it happened, and also why they will continue to struggle against half decent forward lines until we get some defenders back (and tighten up the team defence). If both Hughes, Chapman and Ryan are injured I have no idea who comes in because the cupboard is bare at Peel? We might have no other option but to push Aish back. Seems incredible given how many defenders we have on our list atm.

On the midfield front I'm still a bit perplexed at how poorly we performed. I get that the Nic Nat factor was huge. If a ruck is getting 8 centre clearances then he's clearly making a fairly big impact on the result, especially when all WC really needed to do with their dominant forward line was get the ball forward of centre to score. He had 9 score involvements, 6 of those scores he started from the centre. He got 2 centre clearances last week against Geelong and only had 1 score involvement/launch. If you're not going to mitigate it like Geelong did then you're fighting an uphill battle with the knock-on effect to the midfield's mindset overall. Maybe that is the explanation, as our mids got sucked into the contest in the 2nd half probably to quell NN's influence and allowed Kelly/Gaff/etc to sit back and dine out? If there is one thing that needs to change next week, it is that. Simply cannot get sucked into the contest and get carved up on the outside of the contest or the Brisbane forwards will likely destroy us by an even larger margin than WC did.

It was a whole team issue so I'm not expecting more than one or two sacrificial scapegoats to try and satisfy the Twitter mob. The forced changes will likely be in defence so I'm expecting Giro in so Aish can go back.
Both our rucks are scared to jump at centre bounces , Meek is much better on the follow up because he jumps at the ball and it much easier to get involved when your moving rather than stationary

If Darcy and Lobb won’t jump at the ball they should not be in the centre simple as that

Round the ground you have more cover at the contest


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malpaso

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After taking the emotion out from a hard loss I've accepted we are probably going to struggle until we start getting some defenders not only back but also in form (eg Logue looks a fair way off atm).

You can't lose your AA general down back, Young not be available to slot in to play distributor, be missing your two big negators as options, Logue coming back in underdone, Hughes being subbed out early in the 2nd, young Chapman getting injured early and carrying his arm like it is in a sling for the rest of the game and then expect your back line to hold up against the most effective line-up of tall forwards in the AFL. If WC's back line had a similar injury scenario during the game and had to defend against their own forward line it would have been a similar slaughterhouse. It was a poor performance from the back line but I can understand and accept why it happened, and also why they will continue to struggle against half decent forward lines until we get some defenders back (and tighten up the team defence). If both Hughes, Chapman and Ryan are injured I have no idea who comes in because the cupboard is bare at Peel? We might have no other option but to push Aish back. Seems incredible given how many defenders we have on our list atm.

On the midfield front I'm still a bit perplexed at how poorly we performed. I get that the Nic Nat factor was huge. If a ruck is getting 8 centre clearances then he's clearly making a fairly big impact on the result, especially when all WC really needed to do with their dominant forward line was get the ball forward of centre to score. He had 9 score involvements, 6 of those scores he started from the centre. He got 2 centre clearances last week against Geelong and only had 1 score involvement/launch. If you're not going to mitigate it like Geelong did then you're fighting an uphill battle with the knock-on effect to the midfield's mindset overall. Maybe that is the explanation, as our mids got sucked into the contest in the 2nd half probably to quell NN's influence and allowed Kelly/Gaff/etc to sit back and dine out? If there is one thing that needs to change next week, it is that. Simply cannot get sucked into the contest and get carved up on the outside of the contest or the Brisbane forwards will likely destroy us by an even larger margin than WC did.

It was a whole team issue so I'm not expecting more than one or two sacrificial scapegoats to try and satisfy the Twitter mob. The forced changes will likely be in defence so I'm expecting Giro in so Aish can go back.
Good post, WC are masters of cherry-picking and sitting out the back but credit to them their positioning is outstanding. Sheed is very adept at sitting at the back of a contest AND HE'S ALWAYS ALONE!
 

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apuchar

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Watching Footy Classified last night and Matthew Lloyd talked about how upset Longmuir seemed to be with the playing group when Lloyd interviewed him on Melbourne radio.

If that is correct and the playing didn't do what the coach wanted, then I hope he starts dropping players. Regardless of pay grade. If we have a plan but you can't stick to your role then there is no place for you.
Fyfe used two Ross Lyon sayings in one sentence in an after the game interview
It'gonna take a while.
 

apuchar

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Yay

Brisbane Lions CEO Greg Swann has confirmed the AFL is on the cusp of bringing back the naming of all teams on a Thursday night.

Calls have been growing louder in recent weeks to bring back the much-loved tradition, with alteams only named the day before a game so far this
season.
 

E Shed

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Good post, WC are masters of cherry-picking and sitting out the back but credit to them their positioning is outstanding. Sheed is very adept at sitting at the back of a contest AND HE'S ALWAYS ALONE!
I couldn't believe what I was seeing in the second half. They were just waltzing it out of the middle, time after time there were free men outside the contest while our guys were flatfooted.
AND NOTHING CHANGED.
We just let them do it over and over.
 

Joao

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I couldn't believe what I was seeing in the second half. They were just waltzing it out of the middle, time after time there were free men outside the contest while our guys were flatfooted.
AND NOTHING CHANGED.
We just let them do it over and over.
It's another game where the backs and forwards are getting smashed on here but so many seem to be forgetting the crux of the problem, our midfield defence was non-existent!

It wasn't much better in the first half, we just won more ball and scored when we did to make it look less terrible.

I don't know how much is coaching (JL definitely knew because he mentioned it in the press conference) and how much is personnel but JFC it was hard to watch.
 

apuchar

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It's another game where the backs and forwards are getting smashed on here but so many seem to be forgetting the crux of the problem, our midfield defence was non-existent!

It wasn't much better in the first half, we just won more ball and scored when we did to make it look less terrible.

I don't know how much is coaching (JL definitely knew because he mentioned it in the press conference) and how much is personnel but JFC it was hard to watch.
It is the issue but do we have the solution on our list? When our young guys are fresh and don't get physically intimidated, we are ok for a while but otherwise there appears to be nothing.
 

prpl_jss

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Our mids are mostly kids and a couple of old blokes so not overly surprising that they’re going to have some flaws that need fixing. Not the most balanced in terms of age profile there.
 

Joao

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It is the issue but do we have the solution on our list? When our young guys are fresh and don't get physically intimidated, we are ok for a while but otherwise there appears to be nothing.
I think it is coachable. I understand that Fyfe and Mundy probably aren't suited to defending (although Fyfe will throw himself around), but the rest of them need to know how to change gears. I actually think it might be one of the things that improves without the big two out. Kind of how WCE improved without Priddis and Mitchell getting smashed on the spread.

They're a mile off atm, but both Valente and NOD have significant defensive sides to their games.
 

apuchar

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I think it is coachable. I understand that Fyfe and Mundy probably aren't suited to defending (although Fyfe will throw himself around), but the rest of them need to know how to change gears. I actually think it might be one of the things that improves without the big two out. Kind of how WCE improved without Priddis and Mitchell getting smashed on the spread.

They're a mile off atm, but both Valente and NOD have significant defensive sides to their games.
Yeah I forgot about Valente and NOD.
Probably need one more hard runner on the wing. Giro runs hard so it might be someone like him for now.
I thought WC gave us a lesson on hard run. Ran rings around us frankly.
 

stax on the mull

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I couldn't believe what I was seeing in the second half. They were just waltzing it out of the middle, time after time there were free men outside the contest while our guys were flatfooted.
AND NOTHING CHANGED.
We just let them do it over and over.
Some of it was Naitanui. Without necessarily being physical in the contest he was cutting across the paths of our mids and blocking their way to the ball.

Think we've got a good chance of besting Brisbane's ruck this week. Depends who they pick. I see their back ups in the lower league stood up - but they might continue to go with McInerny and Daniher.
 
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