Prediction Changes round five

[mike123]

I think Darce and Howe are. Against Kennedy and Darling thats who the coaches went with. They didn't against Lynch and Riewoldt, but I would have. I can't think of a team with a combination up forward that i wouldn't be comfortable with Darcy and Howe with Langdon playing on the second ruck and flying 3rd man up.

So who plays on West Coast’s resting ruck?

 

[Thatsmyname]

So who plays on West Coast’s resting ruck?

God that'll be Nic Nat soon.

 

[sr36]

You lose Howe's best weapon. And it's still not addressing the problem. The club is not stupid, they've tried to cover it with Murray and Quaynor but one is unavailable and the other I think isn't quite ready, but when he is it certainly won't be Roughy making way for him.

I think that Howe has shown that we don't lose it, we gain. He's flying more. Sure when he plays 2nd tall, he's punching more, but he's still taking similar amounts of hangers.

In terms of problems, we're talkung about different things, you’re talking run, whilst I'm talking about ground ball roving. Personally I think we improve in both areas if we replace a tall with a small.

 

[sirlothie]

I think that Howe has shown that we don't lose it, we gain. He's flying more. Sure when he plays 2nd tall, he's punching more, but he's still taking similar amounts of hangers.

In terms of problems, we're talkung about different things, you’re talking run, whilst I'm talking about ground ball roving. Personally I think we improve in both areas if we replace a tall with a small.

If the resting ruck is half decent as a forward though surely Langdon will not be able to handle someone who has 15cm and 15kg on him, he would be ripe for exploitation.

 

[Thatsmyname]

I think that Howe has shown that we don't lose it, we gain. He's flying more. Sure when he plays 2nd tall, he's punching more, but he's still taking similar amounts of hangers.

In terms of problems, we're talkung about different things, you’re talking run, whilst I'm talking about ground ball roving. Personally I think we improve in both areas if we replace a tall with a small.

Saw that play last year, no thanks. And as above, who is playing on their resting ruck?

 

[sr36]

So who plays on West Coast’s resting ruck?

Just said Langdon. Every now and then we'll cop a one out in the goal square and it will hurt, but it's offset by how much he'll be able to zone off the resting ruck and the benefit of having an extra small. The balance was great last year, just needed someone bigger and better than Goldsack - enter Darcy.

 

[sr36]

If the resting ruck is half decent as a forward though surely Langdon will not be able to handle someone who has 15cm and 15kg on him, he would be ripe for exploitation.

Like I just said, any one on one issues will be offset by extra zoning off opportunities and an extra ground level player. And frankly, if WCE choose to exploit it by playing through Vardy and not Kennedy, that's a massive win for us.

 

[sirlothie]

Just said Langdon. Every now and then we'll cop a one out in the goal square and it will hurt, but it's offset by how much he'll be able to zone off the resting ruck and the benefit of having an extra small. The balance was great last year, just needed someone bigger and better than Goldsack - enter Darcy.

So in essence your advocating dropping Roughead for somebody like Quaynor? It's interesting, we do seem to have a dearth of run out of the backline, it would be a ballsy play though.

 

[sr36]

Saw that play last year, no thanks. And as above, who is playing on their resting ruck?

Didnt see it with Darcy instead of Goldsack and frankly we all thought it would be costly, but it never was.

 

[Thatsmyname]

Just said Langdon. Every now and then we'll cop a one out in the goal square and it will hurt, but it's offset by how much he'll be able to zone off the resting ruck and the benefit of having an extra small. The balance was great last year, just needed someone bigger and better than Goldsack - enter Darcy.

The balance would have been great with Dunn and Moore together, but in the end it was pretty clear that medium talls don't get you over the line, we just need to inject speed with our current structure. And extra small if he isn't lightning is just same old.

 

[sr36]

So in essence your advocating dropping Roughead for somebody like Quaynor? It's interesting, we do seem to have a dearth of run out of the backline, it would be a ballsy play though.

I don't view it as ballsy. Its a height upgrade on what nearly won us the flag last year, because Darcy has replaced Goldsack.

 

[sirlothie]

I don't view it as ballsy. Its a height upgrade on what nearly won us the flag last year, because Darcy has replaced Goldsack.

If we pulled off such a thing and went all the way, we probably would change the way talls are looked at in terms of their value inserting medium talls in key positions down back and up forward rather than your big collossus in key posts. It would be a footy version of playing 'small ball' in basketball.

 

[sr36]

The balance would have been great with Dunn and Moore together, but in the end it was pretty clear that medium talls don't get you over the line, we just need to inject speed with our current structure. And extra small if he isn't lightning is just same old.

I think we have a different view of the grand final. I thought the defence stood up magnificently and through Moore we've added some extra height to make us even stronger there. Midfield and transition is where they did us in the second half.

 

[Thatsmyname]

Didnt see it with Darcy instead of Goldsack and frankly we all thought it would be costly, but it never was.

We didn't see Darcy full stop! and just on contingency plans, you still need the flexibility of switching a Darcy forward or if something like the 2011 GF happens (and Reid blows a quad) be able to stop a Hawkins. I've seen us try to win it with mediums, it's not the answer or you and I would still be drunk. We need speed, not more mobility.

 

[Thatsmyname]

I think we have a different view of the grand final. I thought the defence stood up magnificently and through Moore we've added some extra height to make us even stronger there. Midfield and transition is where they did us in the second half.

Well my view was we had mediums in key positions and stopping their keys or switching a tall to the forwardline could have been the difference. Anyway my view doesn't mean much, the powers that be have found a steal I reckon and they are backing that structure, and as long as they've chosen wisely in Quaynor I think this defence could jell into a rock.

 

[sr36]

If we pulled off such a thing and went all the way, we probably would change the way talls are looked at in terms of their value inserting medium talls in key positions down back and up forward rather than your big collossus in key posts. It would be a footy version of playing 'small ball' in basketball.

I just think we place too much emphasis on listed height. It's about how good you are in the air. Due to his judgement of the ball drop, his leap, his balance and his skill, i think Howe is better in the air than Roughhead - both offensively and defensively. And his extra pace makes him better at covering blokes on the lead as well.

 

[Thatsmyname]

I just think we place too much emphasis on listed height. It's about how good you are in the air. Due to his judgement of the ball drop, his leap, his balance and his skill, i think Howe is better in the air than Roughhead - both offensively and defensively. And his extra pace makes him better at covering blokes on the lead as well.

Howe isn't a 100kg so there's certain things he does better than others and you're taking his weapon away. And lets face it that scenario played out last year and we have to improve.

 

[KillerMagpies]

Sier played about 75% game time, he is still a few weeks away

Beams in for Mayne
Greenwood in for Brown

This.

 

[Thatsmyname]

Oh yeah right.

Beams for Mayne
Crocker for Brown (you know it's going to happen sooner or later, let's get it over with now)

 

[sr36]

Howe isn't a 100kg so there's certain things he does better than others and you're taking his weapon away. And lets face it that scenario played out last year and we have to improve.

I think I just rate Howe much more highly as a KPD than others do. I think hes fantastic in the role, regardless of height or weight and I reckon the scenario that played out last year was an even shorter defence than im proposing standing up magnificently through our finals campaign. WCE scraped past us twice by outplaying our midfield twice and in transition we couldn't find a way through their zone.

 

[Thatsmyname]

I think I just rate Howe much more highly as a KPD. I think hes fantastic in the role, regardless of height or weight and I reckon the scenario that played out last year was an even shorter defence than im proposing standing up magnificently through our finals campaign. WCE scraped past us twice by outplaying our midfield twice and in transition we couldn't find a way through their zone.

They saw that play out last year and they went out and bought Roughy. Jeez I'd even love the last gasp option of throwing Howe up forward when you are in trouble, but then you'd have Aish on Buddy.

 

[sr36]

They saw that play out last year and they went out and bought Roughy. Jeez I'd even love the last gasp option of throwing Howe up forward when you are in trouble, but then you'd have Aish on Buddy.

Having the capacity to throw a defender forward is great in theory, but how often do they do it when a game is on the line and how often have you seen it work. That's not something I'd factor into a selection decision. Anyway, thanks for the chat, I'm going to leave it there because we see it very differently and we're not going to convince each other. You're view is definitely the majority view, but I'm still convinced I'm right.

 

[Thatsmyname]

Having the capacity to throw a defender forward is great in theory, but how often do they do it when a game is on the line and how often have you seen it work. That's not something I'd factor into a selection decision. Anyway, thanks for the chat, I'm going to leave it there because we see it very differently and we're not going to convince each other. You're view is definitely the majority view, but I'm still convinced I'm right.

I know how often I would have liked to do it 201 days ago.

 

[sr36]

I know how often I would have liked to do it 201 days ago.

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Until we lost, I always thought we were going to win, si I wouldn’t have changed anything at the time.

In retrospect, i would have loved them to have said, stuff it, we can't avoid going long down the line, let's just get some fxxxxen numbers there and stop letting them win every fxxxen down the line contest. With most teams copying the WCE zone, i think that's what will win the flag this year.

 

[Thatsmyname]

Until we lost, I always thought we were going to win, si I wouldn’t have changed anything at the time.

Oh yeah I forgot all those times we were in winning positions in GF's and won them. It was pretty obvious after halftime we had to do something but injuries had taken most of our cards off the table long before we got there, I mean it was Madgen and Oxley during that last month, ****en bastard luck.
So there's no way I'm not going in with a 200cm 100kg mobile key that hits targets and averages 8 marks. He was leading disposals early when the game was on the line last week, I couldn't believe it, he's a ripper.