Preview Changes V Blues

[TARANTULA]

I remember watching Vince's run of 30+ possession games leading up to the finals in 09, and thinking just how dominant this guy was becoming. Wtf happened?

 

[Kane McGoodwin]

I remember watching Vince's run of 30+ possession games leading up to the finals in 09, and thinking just how dominant this guy was becoming. Wtf happened?

Simon Goodwin left AFC...

 

[FAITH]

Lyons is not Crouch - and never will be.

Lyons should be playing.
hope we win tmrw

 

[FAITH]

I remember watching Vince's run of 30+ possession games leading up to the finals in 09, and thinking just how dominant this guy was becoming. Wtf happened?

New contract?

 

[macca23]

Lyons should be playing.
hope we win tmrw

Harper was on 5aa tonight, and Rowey asked him what Lyons has to do to get a game.

Harper made it clear that Lyons was unlucky, but was next in line and if he kept his form up might even force them to drop a player just because they had to fit Lyons in.

Rowey asked whether there was a knock on Lyons because of a little lack of pace, and Harper's reply was that Diesel Williams wasn't particularly quick but he could read the play and get the ball. In other words, no.

Harper finished by saying that Lyons will definitely play games this year

 

[BACCS]

Way to miss the point, but then it is fun to see you with your "huff" on...

Was the point showing how wrong you can be?

 

[macca23]

Simon Goodwin left AFC...

Absolutely true.

Goodwin was Vince's mentor, and set the standards for Vince to follow.

Vince's form has disappeared at the same time that Goodwin has - definitely hasn't worked as hard, and doesn't have the same fitness standards that he did when mentored by Goody.

 

[BACCS]

It's a collective thing. Last week they brought Laird (0 games), Lynch (12) and Kerridge (1) into the team, at the expense of Johncock (227), Vince (111) and VB (166) - only the VB/Kerridge move was forced. Now we're proposing swapping Porps (114) for Lyons (0).

At some point a tipping point must be reached, when the team has too little experience and falls to GC/GWS failure levels. Changing the balance from 11x <50 gamers & 5x 100+, to 12 & 4, may just push us over the edge.

When seen in isolation, playing Lyons instead of Vince makes a lot of sense. However, when viewed in the broader context, Vince over Lyons is almost a no-brainer.

Lyons did play 2 games last year Vader, but agree with the premise of your argument.

 

[BACCS]

Now that it looks like Betts is going to play, I am interested...who gets the green vest of doom? Think they need Laird, Smith and Jaensch to play of the Carlton forward line of Betts, Yarran and Garlett. Does Dmac get the vest? Hendo? Vince?

Sad for Porps, but the writing has been on the wall for a while.

Tbh, wouldn't be surprised to see DMac get it so he knows his poor form won't be tolerated either. But, the safe bet is probably Laird.

 

[Sanders]

Simon Goodwin left AFC...

Taking the "good stuff" with him?

 

[BACCS]

Harper was on 5aa tonight, and Rowey asked him what Lyons has to do to get a game.

Harper made it clear that Lyons was unlucky, but was next in line and if he kept his form up might even force them to drop a player just because they had to fit Lyons in.

Rowey asked whether there was a knock on Lyons because of a little lack of pace, and Harper's reply was that Diesel Williams wasn't particularly quick but he could read the play and get the ball. In other words, no.

Harper finished by saying that Lyons will definitely play games this year

That SHOULD calm down some of the masses... hopefully!

 

[alex_is_on_fire]

That SHOULD calm down some of the masses... hopefully!

Why? Because Phil Harper said something on the radio. It's not like he has a vested interest in selling this move as a positive.

The masses will calm down when action start being seen with appropriate Changes are seen.

Actions speak louder than words.

 

[Elite Crow]

Didn't Harper on 5AA the week before mention the issue with Lyons was his pace? If so why would Rowey ask the same question? Sounds like a convenient set up question for Harper to back flip and hope no one remembered that it was Harper who raised his pace as an issue in the first place

 

[Vader]

Smith & Lyons for Poplyzia & Vince would not have been a significant drop in experience. Swapping 1 experienced/settled player & 1 rookie.

Selecting Vince this week may be better for the short-term, but I'm not convinced it is better for the long-term. Vince has been crap all year, so he just needs to go back for 1 game & he is automatically recalled ... as opposed to Lyons who has been in good form all year. I wanted Vince to really earn his spot & regain the hunger. Recalling him after 1 game means he is more likely to lapse to his lazy ways.

So.. dropping 114 & 111 game players, replacing them with 36 & 3 game players isn't a significant drop in experience? By my maths it's a loss of 186 games experience, leaving us with just 4 players with 100+ games in the entire team. Sorry, I don't buy that for one second.

I agree that the selection of Vince is short-sighted.. but right now we're 2-2 and badly in need of consecutive wins for the first time all season (including the MMC). On that basis, I choose Vince over Lyons every single day of the week. Lyons will get his chance, sooner rather than later - but there's no rush given that the team as named is already the 4th youngest & 4th least experienced in the league.

 

[ftmch]

I agree that the selection of Vince is short-sighted.. but right now we're 2-2 and badly in need of consecutive wins for the first time all season (including the MMC). On that basis, I choose Vince over Lyons every single day of the week. Lyons will get his chance, sooner rather than later - but there's no rush given that the team as named is already the 4th youngest & 4th least experienced in the league.

It would be short sighted if it were round 20 and we were no mathematical chance of making the finals. But it's round 5 - right now team selection is solely about which players are most likely to give us our next win.

 

[Bob Neil]

Lyons is not Crouch - and never will be.

You don't watch sanfl and didn't know Lyons had already debuted so with all due respect how do you make that call?

 

[spenze]

I always find the glorification of pace puzzling in AFL football circles. I mean Stephen Hill is an absolute rocket as far as speed goes but he isn't that good and is easily tagged out of games.

Dane Swan isn't fast but he is a gut runner, he will keep moving from contest to contest and read the play, he also has self awareness.

Gut running is a far bigger necessity in AFL, it goes for 2 hours, it isn't a sprint.

Lyons perceived lack of pace isn't an issue, if he can get the ball and read the play then he doesn't have to sprint around like a headless chook...aka Danyle pearce

 

[cmndstab]

Saying that it doesn't hurt to be a bit slow because Diesel went okay is the equivalent of saying it doesn't hurt to be a bit old because Fletcher is still going strong. It's a line people like Harper bust out when they want to avoid actually giving an answer to the question - and in this case, the answer is clearly "yes, there is a bit of a knock on him because he's too slow".

Hopefully he'll be good enough to overcome a lack of pace, but don't be fooled into thinking the club doesn't care about it because of some throwaway line on the radio.

 

[Mr_Moogle]

Absolutely true.

Goodwin was Vince's mentor, and set the standards for Vince to follow.

Vince's form has disappeared at the same time that Goodwin has - definitely hasn't worked as hard, and doesn't have the same fitness standards that he did when mentored by Goody.

I love to criticise Vince as much as the next guy and I think your right when you say he doesn't work hard enough. However fitness standards are monitored and controlled by the coaching staff. If Bernie really isn't fit enough, they need to do what they did with Douglas and improve his anaerobic endurance. The coaches can't make Vince a champion again overnight but they can sure as hell improve his fitness.

 

[AFC979810]

Why? Because Phil Harper said something on the radio. It's not like he has a vested interest in selling this move as a positive.

The masses will calm down when action start being seen with appropriate Changes are seen.

Actions speak louder than words.

No they won't. The second that Lyons is selected we will have a thread asking what Riley has to do to get a shot.

The key issue here is that we have played 4 games - debuted two new players and given games to Kerridge/Brown who before 2013 had played 4 AFL games between them.

Lyons will get a shot. Its only round 5 FFS.

 

[Sanders]

I always find the glorification of pace puzzling in AFL football circles. I mean Stephen Hill is an absolute rocket as far as speed goes but he isn't that good and is easily tagged out of games.

Dane Swan isn't fast but he is a gut runner, he will keep moving from contest to contest and read the play, he also has self awareness.

Gut running is a far bigger necessity in AFL, it goes for 2 hours, it isn't a sprint.

Lyons perceived lack of pace isn't an issue, if he can get the ball and read the play then he doesn't have to sprint around like a headless chook...aka Danyle pearce

Is that you Neil?

AFL with its rotations is absolutely not about gut running, Dane Swan became a star because what its about is the opposite.

Its about bursts. Sprint, hit the contest, sprint. Bench. Rest 90 seconds. Repeat.

AFL is a sprint

 

[Footypie32]

Is that you Neil?

AFL with its rotations is absolutely not about gut running, Dane Swan became a star because what its about is the opposite.

Its about bursts. Sprint, hit the contest, sprint. Bench. Rest 90 seconds. Repeat.

AFL is a sprint

I still believe it is better to have a quick mind than quick feet.

 

[AFC979810]

Is that you Neil?

AFL with its rotations is absolutely not about gut running, Dane Swan became a star because what its about is the opposite.

Its about bursts. Sprint, hit the contest, sprint. Bench. Rest 90 seconds. Repeat.

AFL is a sprint

Although its all about to change and be about gut running with the new interchange laws.

 

[ManInTheArena]

Saying that it doesn't hurt to be a bit slow because Diesel went okay is the equivalent of saying it doesn't hurt to be a bit old because Fletcher is still going strong.

I don't think it's equivalent to the "Fletcher argument". Fletcher is an exception to the rule and slower midfielders, like Diesel, aren't. Have a run through the list of good AFL midfielders and see how many are fast. Hell, our stalwart Thompson is slow.

 

[Jars458]

That SHOULD calm down some of the masses... hopefully!

Masses? You following the AFC party line is the true "masses".