Opinion Changes V Dees

[JackOutback]

to be fair by long term i mean 3-5 years and not melbourne like long term. I just dont think our recruiting and development over the years have been great. Hit the mother load in 2010 but since that Sheed, Barrass, Duggan, Nelson and maybe cole have shown that they might turn into good footballers IMO 5 players in 5 years is pretty bad. Trading hasnt been too bad with yeo, cripps and wellingham. The jury is still out on jetta and redden tho.

It does feel like if everyone was playing to potential (particularly Jetta and Redden), we would be challenging for a flag, and you need to snag a flag when you can. So it's frustrating. I would also like to win one while NN is around because players who give you that much of an advantage don't come along very often. But even if this immediate group doesn't win a flag, I think the quality is still there for a few years yet.

 

[Belltower]

in Nelson Mckenzie Jetta
Out Schofield Redden Mcginnity

 

[Hap Hapablap]

Serious questions need to be asked of the match committee if Jackson Nelson, an emerging talent who actually has a crack every time out, cant get a game in our midfield after the debacle of our effort (or lack thereof) in the last quarter.


And if Sheed is anywhere near fit he has to come in.

The midfield combo of schuey, nelson and sheed couldn't be any worse then what we are currently serving up

exactly esp when you have turnover kings being protected

 

[avishka5]

It does feel like if everyone was playing to potential (particularly Jetta and Redden), we would be challenging for a flag, and you need to snag a flag when you can. So it's frustrating. I would also like to win one while NN is around because players who give you that much of an advantage don't come along very often. But even if this immediate group doesn't win a flag, I think the quality is still there for a few years yet.

agree. I think sheed would have been huge if he didn't get injured either. If you look at most of his draft class this season, nearly all the good mids from that year are having a massive impact. Im just hoping the injury doesn't slow his development. Even Duggan will be huge. But the problem is that we have a few good mids getting used elsewhere because of priddis at the moment. We could possibly do an Adelaide next year if we get rid of priddis.

yeah NN is a key to us winning a flag but even at 26 his time is running out fast. Because he relies on his athleticism, i dont think he will the they type of player to play well beyond 30.

 

[MIKE85]

We have too much of a home ground advantage to be bottom of the table for extended periods. When we get 12 games a year in Perth, even when we're pretty shit, we still win a fair amount of those (on average over the years. I know we've had a few odd years, like 2013, where we won hardly any at home, and a fair few away)

 

[Eaglemaniac]

So you talk about how bad it is that Priddis can only play one position and yet go on to say that the reason Redden, Karpany etc have not been performing is because they are not being played in a singular, preferred position? You can't preach versatility and then condemn it.

They can play in other roles and do, but they are being wasted there and that accounts for their lower impact where as Priddis cannot play other roles. You cant bag a player for not dominating in a role he's never played, particularly when he goes down to a lower level and is played in his normal role and then dominates again.
The problem is we have club favourites like Masto and Priddis who are protected and therefore we dont always get to see what the youth can do when played in the roles they were recruited for. I can guarantee you we will not win a premiership with Priddis.

 

[RookiePick]

So you talk about how bad it is that Priddis can only play one position and yet go on to say that the reason Redden, Karpany etc have not been performing is because they are not being played in a singular, preferred position? You can't preach versatility and then condemn it.

You would usually give the new blokes a bit of a leg up and play them in their strongest position first up.

Did lol at Priddis holding Karpany out of midfield minutes.

 

[Miguel Sanchez]

Pretty standard practice league-wide to ease younger blokes into the seniors on a flank rather than throwing them straight into the guts, I'd have thought.

There's another thread for the Priddis stuff too.

 

[RookiePick]

Pretty standard practice league-wide to ease younger blokes into the seniors on a flank rather than throwing them straight into the guts, I'd have thought.

There's another thread for the Priddis stuff too.

This is BF. Sink or swim

 

[Mancey]

You would usually give the new blokes a bit of a leg up and play them in their strongest position first up.

Did lol at Priddis holding Karpany out of midfield minutes.

This almost literally never happens with young mids, unless they are Chris Judd

 

[The Dodger]

Nah it does. Viney, Crouch, Cripps, Parish, Merrett, Blakely, Weller are a few who I have watched get a go in the guts straight away and see that they have something. It doesn't take a once in a generation mid to have it happen. The Essendon ones might be exceptional circumstances but they are still given a crack and not "protected".

 

[Mancey]

Nah it does. Viney, Crouch, Cripps, Parish, Merrett, Blakely, Weller are a few who I have watched get a go in the guts straight away and see that they have something. It doesn't take a once in a generation mid to have it happen. The Essendon ones might be exceptional circumstances but they are still given a crack and not "protected".

Common thread, maybe Crouch aside, they all play for non contending teams looking to fast track midfield talent.

That...is not our situation currently

 

[Mancey]

Actually Adelaide was a non contender in 2013 when Crouch debuted so even more validation

 

[The Dodger]

Common thread, maybe Crouch aside, they all play for non contending teams looking to fast track midfield talent.

That...is not our situation currently

I thought you might move the goal posts like that so there is Brad Hill for the Hawks in 2013. Adelaide was in a Prelim against Hawthorn in 2012 still found time to give Crouch a go as of round 2 before they would have realised they weren't in contention that year 2013. Will Langford played in the centre in a premiership year for the Hawks in his second year and Im almost certain a similar story could be had for Liam Shiels. But yes as a rule when your midfield is premiership material you are less likely to make changes. Not that you wont its just that its unlikely you will still have midfield spots open. However when you acknowledge that you are nearly there but your midfield is your weakest link then you probably should.

Our team might be in contention... our midfield isn't.

I say this as it is something that has pissed me off about our club for a long time now. I am thankful that the sub went (not that Simpson was bad with that) as Worsfold would give our mids like Stevens 1 quarter in a game usually decided one way or the other to show his wares to be relegated a week later, same with Swift. And yes I have been looking at other clubs for comparison and while a few did the sub trick with younger players most don't give someone touted as a mid majority flank time with brief stints in the middle.

Sheed and Duggan have been handled correctly from day one and should come on for us as they have not been flanked out.

 

[Eaglemaniac]

If anyone needs to fast track midfield talent it is us.

 

[domo]

If anyone needs to fast track midfield talent it is us.

it appears it doesn't matter too much how you dispose of the footy for us too, so why not give these younger guys a chance?

 

[RookiePick]

This almost literally never happens with young mids, unless they are Chris Judd

Yeah. Fair call.

Our young guys just seem to not even get a few minutes here and there as a rotation is probably more what my addled brain was getting at

 

[The Dodger]

Actually Adelaide was a non contender in 2013 when Crouch debuted so even more validation

As posted above they were in a Prelim the year before and played him round 2 of 2013.

 

[Miguel Sanchez]

I thought you might move the goal posts like that so there is Brad Hill for the Hawks in 2013. Adelaide was in a Prelim against Hawthorn in 2012 still found time to give Crouch a go as of round 2 before they would have realised they weren't in contention that year 2013. Will Langford played in the centre in a premiership year for the Hawks in his second year and Im almost certain a similar story could be had for Liam Shiels.

Some errors in there.

Hill played 5 games his rookie year, played pretty much every game the following year (2013) on a wing.

Langford played 1 senior game in his first three years on Hawthorn's list, he was 22yo by the time he won a flag. As was Shiels who was drafted in 2008 and played 17 games in his first two years (I've got no idea whether he was played midfield but he averaged about 12 disposals a game so I'd suggest he wasn't)

 

[Mancey]

In that hawks midfield, if he spent time in the guts it was very minimal

 

[The Dodger]

Some errors in there.

Hill played 5 games his rookie year, played pretty much every game the following year (2013) on a wing.

Langford played 1 senior game in his first three years on Hawthorn's list, he was 22yo by the time he won a flag. As was Shiels who was drafted in 2008 and played 17 games in his first two years (I've got no idea whether he was played midfield but he averaged about 12 disposals a game so I'd suggest he wasn't)

This is getting a bit fly shit out of pepper like. I include Wing as a midfield position.

How does what you have written about Langford diminish what was done? His first year he had glandular fever and didnt play bugger all. then he played 1 game. Then he was a regular in the midfield for a premiership winning team. Its even better when you read how he got started. Was moved to the midfield the year after for Boxhill and then got in to their midfield the next year for the whole year.

Shiels being 20 years old and having played 17 games averaged 23 possies in 2011 before being moved to a tagger role to which then the Hawks moved away from.

I feel like the goal posts are being moved heaps here. This is a strong team that was certainly in contention giving young players with not a lot of experience under their belt games in a midfield.

 

[Godfather32]

With the games coming up we have every chance of cementing a top 4 spot.

Once you're in the top 4 come finals time, you have a shot at it. Other teams can get key injuries, someone might pull something out of the fire and beat the hawks in a prelim.

You don't get a chance of a top 4 finish every year. stop with the loser talk.

Unless something drastically changes in the next few weeks we don't have a shot at the flag this year, we're not playing with the heart and passion that we need to, to win big games. It's not loser talk to point this out, it's the truth.

 

[Godfather32]

But the good thing is we haven't lost to any of the lesser teams which has allowed us to stay on track, GWS, Geelong and Sydney have all dropped games against bottom 10 sides. We played average on the weekend but we still won. One of our issues is we don't have enough midfielders, the mids we have are forced into more clearances and run out of legs especially at the wide grounds like MCG because they have to defend the chip kicks more

We've done our best a couple of times though, we let Carlton and Port right back into their respective games. Agree with you on the midfielders, I don't think it helps have so many slow ones in the team at once either, by the time it gets to the end of the game they're just about running in slow motion.

 

[Godfather32]

And players could have a cheeky *** outside the ground.

I remember Dean Turner walking around the boundary line drinking an Eagle Cola at three quarter time of one game

 

[new breed]

Sounds like Lycett is totally stuffed can hardly walk into training today , Giles will probably play as a backup at least .

Lycett is certainly earning that $400k salary this season .