Prediction Changes v Essendon

[Papa G]

Actually think Sam has a good left foot, he's instinctive on his wrong side unlike 75% of AFL footballers these days. He's just ****ed up a few big moments this year. I've said before I don't dislike Sam Gray, but do question whether he is best 22.

 

[Chizza12]

Agree that Sam Gray is improving conversely Youngy is going backwards compared to his form last year. Atley is an inside midfielder however he kicked 8 goals in 11 TAC games resting forward. He was 3rd in the draft combine goalkicking test (SPP was ranked 1st) and 10th in the clean hands test so he has attributes that suggest he can get a look in as a half forward.

 

[Enviable Tradition]

Sam Grays defensive pressure is elite.

You are kidding yourself if you think one of our youngsters is going to replicate that any time soon.

Sent from my SM-G930F using Tapatalk

 

[Lou Zyffer]

I was calling for Young out over a month ago. I can't recall the last time he marked and goaled, something we saw regularly last season. For mine, for this reason Gus is the most logical replacement. He brings offensive and defensive pressure, can take a mark, kick goals and has a bit of niggle about him. He has the runs on the board & the Atley's & Drew's have time on their side. We have Robbie as a crumber, we need someone else up forward with some marking ability as well as defensive pressure. Neade doesn't bring enough to the table. So I'm on the Monfries for Young train too and yeah it's probably Chad for Toump with the latter being the only change we'll see.

Gotta say I'm 'curious' as to Ken's plan for Gus. Easily best 22 before his suspension, apparently in good form, can't get a look in. Like Butch, you wonder why his contract was extended. Is he being held back for one last hurrah late season/finals or just playing out his contract in the twos?

 

[drazah]

Sam Grays defensive pressure is elite.

You are kidding yourself if you think one of our youngsters is going to replicate that any time soon.

Sent from my SM-G930F using Tapatalk

Like when he was supposed to be manning up on Danger who then kicked the winning goal after creating about 5 metres of space between them? I disagree very much.

 

[BornPort]

Sam Grays defensive pressure is elite.

You are kidding yourself if you think one of our youngsters is going to replicate that any time soon.

Sent from my SM-G930F using Tapatalk

Is it really? How do you measure that? Certainly doesn't seem to average many tackles. Averaging 2.1 per game.

 

[Us against the rest]

Sam Grays defensive pressure is elite.

You are kidding yourself if you think one of our youngsters is going to replicate that any time soon.

Sent from my SM-G930F using Tapatalk

So is Jake Neade's.

 

[1954]

I was calling for Young out over a month ago. I can't recall the last time he marked and goaled, something we saw regularly last season. For mine, for this reason Gus is the most logical replacement. He brings offensive and defensive pressure, can take a mark, kick goals and has a bit of niggle about him. He has the runs on the board & the Atley's & Drew's have time on their side. We have Robbie as a crumber, we need someone else up forward with some marking ability as well as defensive pressure. Neade doesn't bring enough to the table. So I'm on the Monfries for Young train too and yeah it's probably Chad for Toump with the latter being the only change we'll see.

Gotta say I'm 'curious' as to Ken's plan for Gus. Easily best 22 before his suspension, apparently in good form, can't get a look in. Like Butch, you wonder why his contract was extended. Is he being held back for one last hurrah late season/finals or just playing out his contract in the twos?

Like many, I haven't been particularly impressed with Young this season.

In his defence he appears to me to be playing more as a link man this season.
If that is his primary role, and he is playing to instructions, then that is probably why he is retaining his spot in the 22.

Unless he had an undisclosed injury, the above doesn't explain why he was dropped for the game in Shanghai and then reinstated though.

 

[Ford Fairlane]

Like when he was supposed to be manning up on Danger who then kicked the winning goal after creating about 5 metres of space between them? I disagree very much.

Lol as tribey has pointed out several times now the only reason Dangerfield was in that position was Jonas knocked him down as he and Gray went to the contest. Selwood squeezed a nothing hack kick out and it fell into Dangerfield's arms when he was accidentally out of the contest. Sometimes you have to accept luck didn't run your way. It's a bit like saying Charlie Dixon is a shit forward because he dropped a mark.

You have to view the way Port play as total team defence. Our scores against are so miserly because every player plays a role around the ground that pressures the opposition's ball movement. It might not be measured in tackles or one percenters or whatever stats you want to use. This is really at the discretion of the coaches who worked on this game plan all summer and know when a player is fulfilling his end of the obligation. As long as they are, they get picked. If they believe a player outside of the team can do that and add more, then there will be an unforced change.

 

[drazah]

Lol as tribey has pointed out several times now the only reason Dangerfield was in that position was Jonas knocked him down as he and Gray went to the contest. Selwood squeezed a nothing hack kick out and it fell into Dangerfield's arms when he was accidentally out of the contest. Sometimes you have to accept luck didn't run your way. It's a bit like saying Charlie Dixon is a shit forward because he dropped a mark.

You have to view the way Port play as total team defence. Our scores against are so miserly because every player plays a role around the ground that pressures the opposition's ball movement. It might not be measured in tackles or one percenters or whatever stats you want to use. This is really at the discretion of the coaches who worked on this game plan all summer and know when a player is fulfilling his end of the obligation. As long as they are, they get picked. If they believe a player outside of the team can do that and add more, then there will be an unforced change.

S Gary pressuring the opposition's ball movement to lock it inside our forward 50:


Well, no one can deny he tries...

 

[Schulzenfest]

Sam Gray is far from the worst player to represent the PAFC at AFL level. If this was 2011-2012 he'd be an absolute walk up start in our side and he'd probably finish top 10 in the B&F to boot. But I'd like to think that our standards should be higher these days.

17 disposals (and it's not like he's an elite ball user either), 0.8 goals, 2.1 tackles, 72 SuperCoach points a game. It's not terrible. But is it enough that he deserves to seemingly be penned into the lineup every week when we've got guys in the SANFL in really good form, including a 200 gamer who could quite easily step up to play the same high half-forward role?

And numbers aside, there's the intangibles. He is not a clutch player. We've lost four games this year, and two of him have been down to turning points that were both Sam Gray mistakes (missing the shot from 5 metres out against the Crows, losing track of Danger against the Cats). We're a very good team for three and a half quarters at the moment but we still suck in crunch time. We should be trying to weed out players who consistently fail in crunch time. Sam Gray is one of those players.

 

[Ford Fairlane]

S Gary pressuring the opposition's ball movement to lock it inside our forward 50:


Well, no one can deny he tries...

And I could find a gif of Charlie Dixon missing a simple shot for goal or Paddy Ryder dropping a simple mark or Jack Hombsch being beaten in a one on one marking contest. But they try too don't they?

I'm not sure why you find the need to ridicule a player who is selected every week and gives his all. He is an unfashionable player and I'll admit to swinging from keep him in to drop him within quarters let alone from game to game.

But I recognise that the coaching panel sees value in what he brings every week and will leave a decision on his continued selection to their discretion. I kind of figure that guys with the playing experience of Ken Hinkley, Matthew Nicks, Michael Voss, Nathan Bassett and Brendon Lade aren't that keen on throwing away games picking guys that can't play and have some idea of a player's worth to the team.

I'm certainly not going to mock him for the apparently unforgivable act of being selected.

Then again, you might know better.

 

[ROBBBO]

S Gary pressuring the opposition's ball movement to lock it inside our forward 50:


Well, no one can deny he tries...

that's pathetic of you to do that

 

[Tibbs]

Lol as tribey has pointed out several times now the only reason Dangerfield was in that position was Jonas knocked him down as he and Gray went to the contest. Selwood squeezed a nothing hack kick out and it fell into Dangerfield's arms when he was accidentally out of the contest. Sometimes you have to accept luck didn't run your way. It's a bit like saying Charlie Dixon is a shit forward because he dropped a mark.

You have to view the way Port play as total team defence. Our scores against are so miserly because every player plays a role around the ground that pressures the opposition's ball movement. It might not be measured in tackles or one percenters or whatever stats you want to use. This is really at the discretion of the coaches who worked on this game plan all summer and know when a player is fulfilling his end of the obligation. As long as they are, they get picked. If they believe a player outside of the team can do that and add more, then there will be an unforced change.

Thats true Ford, but it is horrible viewing, watching Gray just stand immobile in space watching the ball. He should have had some awareness of Danger moving/being pushed into open space next to him. It was a fail. But I am not prepared to hang the loss on him. The ball should never have got back there in the first place!

 

[Phhht]

.

Gotta say I'm 'curious' as to Ken's plan for Gus. Easily best 22 before his suspension, ...........

Hmmm, not sure on this. I reckon he was starting to tread water in 2015.

Having seen only a couple of Gus's SNAFFLE games, he didnt appear to me to be playing the mid-sized forward marking / defensive forward role that Young is at AFL level.

More a wingman/linkup player. Maybe others who have seen more of Gus at SNAFFLE level can elaborate on what his role has been.

If we are looking to replace Young from a role/structure viewpoint, my guess would be Palmer takes his spot. Or Arch takes on Young's role and we replace Arch's midfield/fwd rotation spot with someone else like an Atley. But I think that unbalances the side with inside/outside mids ratio.

If Krak was fit, reckon he would be a good replacement for Young as well.

Regardless, its a great position to be in. Trying to squeeze multiple players in and having difficulty who to leave out.

 

[ROBBBO]

Thats true Ford, but it is horrible viewing, watching Gray just stand immobile in space watching the ball. He should have had some awareness of Danger moving/being pushed into open space next to him. It was a fail. But I am not prepared to hang the loss on him. The ball should never have got back there in the first place!

LOL Gray is no match for Danger any way you look at it !!!

Why wasnt Boak, or Ollie or Ebo or a true defender on Danger at that stage of the contest is the question

 

[Waspy79]

Gus and R.Gray both in the same forward line makes it awfully slow. Might be the case that Ken can't justify in his mind that lack of pace.

 

[Us against the rest]

Imo it's not that Sam is a crap player, he is an average player and could be keeping kids out with potentially more talent, credit where it is due though he gives 100%. Kane Mitchell was a classic example of a player that gave 110% but was not suited for AFL footy. We have had some players that have reached their ceiling and could not become a regular AFL player like Moore, O'shea, Mitchell, Butcher, Hoon. Young is one of my favourite players and he and Sam could find themselves in the same basket, a bit harsh, may be but if we are to play finals and possibly make a GF, i want to know that the players we have are capable of what finals footy demands. I guess with half a season down we won't know what Palmer, Atley, Howard, Johnson and a few others could bring to our side with out a 3-4 game stint.

 

[Ford Fairlane]

Thats true Ford, but it is horrible viewing, watching Gray just stand immobile in space watching the ball. He should have had some awareness of Danger moving/being pushed into open space next to him. It was a fail. But I am not prepared to hang the loss on him. The ball should never have got back there in the first place!

To be fair, Gray was just off the contest where there were already 4 Port players and it was over in a nanosecond. Three Port players - Wines, Ebert and Westhoff - went to ground in the ruck scramble and Ryder tried to reach back in, meanwhile Selwood kept his feet and Travis Boak came from the periphery but didn't contest Selwood's hurried kick - one of those (not Ryder who went up in ruck and couldn't get back in effectively) should have killed the contest. Dangerfield was in the right place at the right time, pretty much through good luck rather than good management.

At the end of the day it's done and no matter who gets a finger pointed at them - starting with 35 second Charlie to the umpire who paid an absurd free kick to allow Geelong to get the ball up there - the game remains lost.

 

[Magus]

Thats true Ford, but it is horrible viewing, watching Gray just stand immobile in space watching the ball. He should have had some awareness of Danger moving/being pushed into open space next to him. It was a fail. But I am not prepared to hang the loss on him. The ball should never have got back there in the first place!

Ollie has already fessed up to this being his mistake. We can knock Sam Gray for a few reasons but this isn't one of them.

 

[Andre]

He is not a clutch player. We've lost four games this year, and two of him have been down to turning points that were both Sam Gray mistakes (missing the shot from 5 metres out against the Crows, losing track of Danger against the Cats). We're a very good team for three and a half quarters at the moment but we still suck in crunch time. We should be trying to weed out players who consistently fail in crunch time. Sam Gray is one of those players.

So so much this. You can't average out performances of our players over the season to see who should go or stay. When the whole team is firing against shit opposition anyone can look good. If we're wanting to be a serious flag chance then the blowtorch needs to be applied to those who suck in the big games. Sam Gray, Justin Westhoff, Hartlett and Broadbent are serial non-performers against half decent sides. If we do go down to Essendon I'd be shocked if any of them were in the best players. Of those Sam Gray is the most replaceable.

And it's also like others have said. We've got peak Sam Gray. Are we going to be better off at finals time with Sam Gray having another 10 games under his belt, or Monfries back up to AFL pace? Or bringing in a youngster like Atley for games? If we bring in Atley by finals time if he's not as good as Sam Gray, Sam Gray can slot back in and is still 'as is'. We reach finals and Sam Gray does a hamstring and we try Atley he's thrown in the deep end.

Shit, even if you think Sam Gray is worth playing, given our longer run from our bye to finals, we should be rotating in players for a game here or there to keep the team fresh. Sam Gray can have his turn this week.

 

[Schulzenfest]

LOL Gray is no match for Danger any way you look at it !!!

Why wasnt Boak, or Ollie or Ebo or a true defender on Danger at that stage of the contest is the question

It's a fair question. But you could ask the same question about Polec and Stringer last year and it didn't stop us dropping Jared.

To be fair, I'm not advocating delisting Sam or anything like that. I think he's a perfectly cromulent player to have sitting in the 25-30th selected range on your list. I just don't think he's in our fully fit best 22.

 

[Ford Fairlane]

The question I am pondering is Schulzenfest using cromulent in the traditional (Merriam Webster dictionary) or ironic (Urban Dictionary) sense?

 

[afl2004]

It's a fair question. But you could ask the same question about Polec and Stringer last year and it didn't stop us dropping Jared.

To be fair, I'm not advocating delisting Sam or anything like that. I think he's a perfectly cromulent player to have sitting in the 25-30th selected range on your list. I just don't think he's in our fully fit best 22.

Yep and its not like we don't have a young stud that can come in . Were a good team but with atley we could become scary in the midfield and have depth

 

[Pedro59]

Sam Grays defensive pressure is elite.

You are kidding yourself if you think one of our youngsters is going to replicate that any time soon.

Sent from my SM-G930F using Tapatalk

This

I have been very impressed with our defensive linking up and skills under severe pressure this season and maybe this is the reason Sam Gray stays in.

In the modern game one turnover or fumble leads to an opposition goal
Doesn't everyone agree he is a ball magnet as well ?