Prediction Changes v Essendon

[Sleezy]

S Gray pro's:
- No-one in our team spreads harder from the contest than S Gray. He is our best gut runner. - He stretches the defence making space for our other mids in transition.
- He is in our top 5 for hitting leading forwards (I watched the last quarter against the hawks last night, he hit three leading targets lace out in one quarter).
- Is the second best proponent of the hip and shoulder in our team behind SPP.

S Gray cons:
- He is short
- He is prone to rushing and making a poor decision, but i think he is improving every game

 

[Andre]

It's a fair question. But you could ask the same question about Polec and Stringer last year and it didn't stop us dropping Jared.

To be fair, I'm not advocating delisting Sam or anything like that. I think he's a perfectly cromulent player to have sitting in the 25-30th selected range on your list. I just don't think he's in our fully fit best 22.

He's a 2017 Matt Thomas or Tom Logan. Not for the hardness aspect, but if getting games when we don't have injuries, then either selections are wrong or our list isn't good enough yet.

 

[Enviable Tradition]

Is it really? How do you measure that? Certainly doesn't seem to average many tackles. Averaging 2.1 per game.

Go to a game. Watch who is the bloke chasing all the defenders. Making them rush their kick.

Players rarely get close enough to.lay a tackle in that situation but the lack of time they give the defender is often crucial.

I have been as critical of Sam as anyone. Especially his disposal. But he is playing a very important role ATM and playing it well.

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[NEGAN]

If Sam Gray kicked the goals he should have dollied in, we probably wouldn't be having this discussion.

But then again I admit I nit pick The Hoff for the exact same thing. Difference being Hoff is a leader and Top 5-10 player on his day. Sam will always be bottom a 5 player not that there is anything wrong with that, every team has them. Cat A players Cat B players.

Are we comparing Sam Gray to Wanganeen or Josh Mahoney or Jarrod Schofield.

If we are comparing him to a calibre of Wanganeen he is always going to lose.

 

[Enviable Tradition]

So so much this. You can't average out performances of our players over the season to see who should go or stay. When the whole team is firing against shit opposition anyone can look good. If we're wanting to be a serious flag chance then the blowtorch needs to be applied to those who suck in the big games. Sam Gray, Justin Westhoff, Hartlett and Broadbent are serial non-performers against half decent sides. If we do go down to Essendon I'd be shocked if any of them were in the best players. Of those Sam Gray is the most replaceable.

And it's also like others have said. We've got peak Sam Gray. Are we going to be better off at finals time with Sam Gray having another 10 games under his belt, or Monfries back up to AFL pace? Or bringing in a youngster like Atley for games? If we bring in Atley by finals time if he's not as good as Sam Gray, Sam Gray can slot back in and is still 'as is'. We reach finals and Sam Gray does a hamstring and we try Atley he's thrown in the deep end.

Shit, even if you think Sam Gray is worth playing, given our longer run from our bye to finals, we should be rotating in players for a game here or there to keep the team fresh. Sam Gray can have his turn this week.

What if we lose an extra game by trying to get extra games into the kids and it costs us a top 4 spot?

Who's to say these kids are better off in the AFL in the role of small forward that they weren't recruited for than playing full time midfield under the same system in the SANFL?

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[Andre]

What if we lose an extra game by trying to get extra games into the kids and it costs us a top 4 spot?

Big wins a kid versus Sam Gray isn't going to make the difference. And we've already established we don't/can't win the close one's with the current personnel, so why wouldn't we give it a try?

 

[1954]

He's a 2017 Matt Thomas or Tom Logan. Not for the hardness aspect, but if getting games when we don't have injuries, then either selections are wrong or our list isn't good enough yet.

Reasonable comparison in some ways, but the current team would kick the Thomo/Logan era team off the park, and by plenty, and whilst they were both excellent club men I doubt that Thommo in particular would have got a spot on today's list, and if he did he would be a long way behind at least 4 or 5 others when it came to consideration for AFL selection.

 

[NEGAN]

Big wins a kid versus Sam Gray isn't going to make the difference. And we've already established we don't/can't win the close one's with the current personnel, so why wouldn't we give it a try?

But why blame Sam Gray,

Why not Hoff ?Hamish?

Our leaders are prone to go missing in these games and we expect a Bgader or new kid to stand up when the heat is on?

It doesn't make sense to me?

 

[Powerade 08]

Sam Gray has been our 2nd best performed forward this year, and he is playing an important role nobody else on our list can fill.

He's not amazing, but we're only talking about dropping him because he is one of the whipping boys.

 

[Andre]

But why blame Sam Gray,

Why not Hoff ?Hamish?

I did. Hoff, Sam Gary, Hartlett, Broadbent are my 'four who don't give more' during losses. Sam is the one we've got the most depth to cover. If none of the four was on our list next year I'd be stoked, but we can't get rid of them all in one week (unfortunately).

 

[PatientMental]

Sam Gray has been our 2nd best performed forward this year, and he is playing an important role nobody else on our list can fill.

He's not amazing, but we're only talking about dropping him because he is one of the whipping boys.

2nd? Behind only Dixon? and in front of R.Gray? and Impey? and even Boak?

Right.

 

[Waspy79]

Atley showed so much promise in the pre-season that we now all salivate at the thought of him getting a game, me included. Hopefully Joe's hunger is building by the week so that when he gets a taste he will be ready to sieze it.

 

[Us against the rest]

But why blame Sam Gray,

Why not Hoff ?Hamish?

Our leaders are prone to go missing in these games and we expect a Bgader or new kid to stand up when the heat is on?

It doesn't make sense to me?

We are not blaming Sam, he is who he is. What we are saying is he is playing at his ceiling and will probably not improve any more, when there is potentially more talented players in form that have not been tried for a few continual games, so i suppose we don't know.

 

[NEGAN]

We are not blaming Sam, he is who he is. What we are saying is he is playing at his ceiling and will probably not improve any more, when there is potentially more talented players in form that have not been tried for a few continual games, so i suppose we don't know.

I am saying now that this team has enough talent and depth to cover dropping what is considered our better talent.

There is probably 2 guys in our team we just would never drop no matter bad their form is and they are Ryder and Dixon. You can't replace them no matter.We can't cover them.

Then you have guys you won't drop because they are best in slot players even though we can cover them Boak Gray Hombsch Jonas Trengove Wingard Ollie Polec Ebert

That's 11 solid players,

The rest are completely replaceable while we might lose class and experience with some I feel we are at a point now where we have the freedom and have enough depth and talent to not notice a difference between a loss and a win if we replace them. Hamish Hoff Broadbent Gray Impey Young DBJ Pittard AH chee Amon Toumpas Clurey all replaceable due to bad form.

SPP is in category of his own cannot and will not be dropped due to pure awesomeness.

 

[Us against the rest]

I a

I am saying now that this team has enough talent and depth to cover dropping what is considered our better talent.

There is probably 2 guys in our team we just would never drop no matter bad their form is and they are Ryder and Dixon. You can't replace them no matter.We can't cover them.

Then you have guys you won't drop because they are best in slot players even though we can cover them Boak Gray Hombsch Jonas Trengove Wingard Ollie Polec Ebert

That's 11 solid players,

The rest are completely replaceable while we might lose class and experience with some I feel we are at a point now where we have the freedom and have enough depth and talent to not notice a difference between a loss and a win if we replace them. Hamish Hoff Broadbent Gray Impey Young DBJ Pittard AH chee Amon Toumpas all replaceable due to bad form.

SPP is in category of his own cannot and will not be dropped due to pure awesomeness.

I agree. Young should have been dropped, he was dropped due to poor form and brought back in without showing good form. It is these sorts of decisions that has left many supporters scratching their heads, as Ken did say you play when you can show form over a period of time.

 

[drazah]

Sam Gray has been our 2nd best performed forward this year, and he is playing an important role nobody else on our list can fill.

He's not amazing, but we're only talking about dropping him because he is one of the whipping boys.

Sam Gray > Robbie Gray now... This board has officially jumped the shark.

 

[ROBBBO]

We are not blaming Sam, he is who he is. What we are saying is he is playing at his ceiling and will probably not improve any more, when there is potentially more talented players in form that have not been tried for a few continual games, so i suppose we don't know.

point of order, they are blaming Sam

 

[Adz2332]

what position is westhoff actually playing at the moment? tall forward? HFF? winger?

 

[badbeats]

what position is westhoff actually playing at the moment? tall forward? HFF? winger?

All 3 plus loose man in defense.

I see him playing that 1 kick behind play a lot to force teams to go around him or over the top.

 

[Jason K]

what position is westhoff actually playing at the moment? tall forward? HFF? winger?

Yes

 

[Adz2332]

All 3 plus loose man in defense.

I see him playing that 1 kick behind play a lot to force teams to go around him or over the top.

yer exactly why i think we should add another tall forward or marking forward and i dont see us as being top heavy. or better yet drop him completely

 

[Us against the rest]

point of order, they are blaming Sam

I suppose if he does not take his opportunities in tight games or against good opposition, he is not good enough to take into a finals series.
When other players like Hartlett, Pittard, Lobbe and even Boak have played shit they also get bagged on here.

What i see with Sam is that imo he is playing at his peek and there is no room for improvement when some of the in form younger guys have more up side to improve given the chance. As for Sam's stats, he gets plenty of ball but it's how he uses it, by foot in particular, also have a look at his average tackles, 2.1 p/g and his goal scoring .8 p/g and accuracy at 8.11. He does do other things ok but this area of his game is what some people see as below par for AFL.

 

[Doctor Feel]

Sam Gray > Robbie Gray now... This board has officially jumped the shark.

If anything, S. Gray has been considerably more consistent than R. Gray. That's about where it ends though.

 

[Janus]

what position is westhoff actually playing at the moment? tall forward? HFF? winger?

Depends where the formation is.

Neutral - wing

Forward of centre - half forward flank

Defensive side of centre - high back

 

[ozph1870]

Like when he was supposed to be manning up on Danger who then kicked the winning goal after creating about 5 metres of space between them? I disagree very much.

That was Ollie wines fault, Gray is half his size, Ollie is a future captain, next year I'd say, but he learned a valuable lesson in leadership that night.