Changes V GC - Four ins: Howe, Moore, Wells and....Blairy! Greenwood, Cox, Broomy and Smith out

[magpie_marty]

That is rubbish Pick 7 has had a good strike rate for good players but really only 1-2 actual stars have sipped to that pick being Selwood namely.

Pick 1 to 5 has generally more often then not, produced genuine stars of the comp compared to 6th -10th.

You want very good odds at getting a genuine match winner and truly elite you need a top 5 pick.

If you are happy with just a good to very good player at hgh odds then pick 6 - 10 is where it's at.

We have enough of the 6-10 type player we need that match winner coming through.

So yes there is a LOT of incentive to help the team to 16th or 17th.

Adam Goodes was a pick 43
Simon Black was a pick 31
Danny Roach (cwd) was a pick 7 and Rhyce Shaw a pick 18 in the same draft

Just saying the draft is really a Lotto of talent and not always the top 10 on rankings are the best AFL players.

 

[loki04]

What does that have to do with winning on the weekend?

Carlton are sitting in same boat as us, 5 wins, and we often play more kids than them each week. So according to the brains trust on here, should be in a race to the bottom now. Put Krooze and Murphy in.cotton wool, stop playing Gibbs coz he might not be there next year, and go for the earliest draft pick as possible. It would be selfish of Bolton to try to get meaningless wins at the end of this year due to Gibbs and K.Simpson playing well but see them end up with only pick 4 or 5 instead of pick 3.

But, the benefits of finishing further down the ladder aren't as strong anymore.

The difference between pick 2, 3 or pick 5 isn't that great, to simply throw away a season.

Back in 99 and 05, the reward for not winning 5 games was an extra top 5 pick...in 99 we jagged pick 1 and 3, which Malthouse then wasted.

In 2005 we jagged pick 2 and 5, which jagged us Pendles.

The incentive to 'tank' is no longer there, which is why clubs don't do it anymore.

The difference is they have had years down the bottom, they have already served their time tanking/being s**t call it what you like to get access to elite talent.

The stage they are in is developing those picks into a cohesive unit and learning the way the coach wants them to play, they have for the most part got the mix and by natural development will add an extra player or 2 from the top 10 on the rise up. They are at the stage where they need to rise back up the ladder and back to the winners list.

We are in need of that extra elite talent that only comes through finishing bottom 5 preferably bottom 3.


The player you are likely to get top 3 of the draft is of a higher talent ceiling then that which you will get from 7-10 in most occasions unless Hine shits the bed. That's the incentive.

 

[DT_fanatic]

Adam Goodes was a pick 43
Simon Black was a pick 31
Danny Roach (cwd) was a pick 7 and Rhyce Shaw a pick 18 in the same draft

Just saying the draft is really a Lotto of talent and not always the top 10 on rankings are the best AFL players.

Yep. Too many factors go into whether the top picks end up a star or not. Sure there's a better chance/it might be easier to develop them into a star but a lot of that development comes from being in the right environment.

Coming to a club where it's deemed suitable/preferable to lose can't be a great environment to bring a player into. And it's not easy to switch from tanking this season to winning next season.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

 

[loki04]

Adam Goodes was a pick 43
Simon Black was a pick 31
Danny Roach (cwd) was a pick 7 and Rhyce Shaw a pick 18 in the same draft

Just saying the draft is really a Lotto of talent and not always the top 10 on rankings are the best AFL players.

Recruiting has come along way since those days, but really you pick the odd player who gets taken late and turns into a gun and the odd player who didn't become anything as the basis for your argument?

Those are generally against the norm, you don't make decisions based on "what if Hine shits the bed" with his top 3 pick. you ARE

You make decisions based off the multiple players from multiple drafts who went top 5 and went on and became guns which is most of them.


You guys are acting like we are guaranteed to get that 1 off player who MAY slip through on the odd occasion....


When you have a top 3 pick are almost guaranteed of a player of that Ilk, Hine would have to massively * up to not.

 

[Mongo Ming]

Adam Goodes was a pick 43
Simon Black was a pick 31
Danny Roach (cwd) was a pick 7 and Rhyce Shaw a pick 18 in the same draft

Just saying the draft is really a Lotto of talent and not always the top 10 on rankings are the best AFL players.

Problem is.. we need to draft a quality key forward. And you absolutely need a high pick for that nowdays. A couple have slid, sure, but geez you need to be lucky.

Epilogue: I'm confused.. is this the Draft thread or the Game Day Thread?

 

[loki04]

What absolute tripe.

Hoping your team loses, in some ridiculous notion that it is in the long term benefit is a huge stretch.

Actively changing your supported team is just being a knob.

Only 'supporting' a winning team, sulking when a favourite player isn't selected, that ain't the behaviour of a supporter...that is a bandwagonner.

I am a Collingwood supporter, clearly I am interested in discussing Collingwood's team for the upcoming game with other Collingwood people...but it appears I am on the wrong thread.

It is in the long term benefit, no "notion" about it!

The system rewards teams who finish low. Have a problem with it take it up with the AFL and get a Draft lottery in place.

What isn't of benefit winning the odd game or 2 and reducing your chance of getting a elite bracket player. Tat is of no benefit.
It may go against the very nature of a supporter but by the time draft rolls around no one is going to give two hoots who we lost to in the last 7 games of the year.

But they sure as s**t will super excited by the draft and then the following year when watching their new Stud strut his stuff around the MCG helping the team win for the next decade+.

 

[magpie_marty]

Recruiting has come along way since those days, but really you pick the odd player who gets taken late and turns into a gun and the odd player who didn't become anything as the basis for your argument?

Those are generally against the norm, you don't make decisions based on "what if Hine shits the bed" with his top 3 pick. you ARE

You make decisions based off the multiple players from multiple drafts who went top 5 and went on and became guns which is most of them.


You guys are acting like we are guaranteed to get that 1 off player who MAY slip through on the odd occasion....


When you have a top 3 pick are almost guaranteed of a player of that Ilk, Hine would have to massively **** up to not.

Well many a dollar has been spent on a racehorse that never made it!

 

[Run n Spread]

What absolute tripe.

Hoping your team loses, in some ridiculous notion that it is in the long term benefit is a huge stretch.

Actively changing your supported team is just being a knob.

Only 'supporting' a winning team, sulking when a favourite player isn't selected, that ain't the behaviour of a supporter...that is a bandwagonner.

I am a Collingwood supporter, clearly I am interested in discussing Collingwood's team for the upcoming game with other Collingwood people...but it appears I am on the wrong thread.

Look I am all for going playing the kids route. Short term gain for long term gain.

Yet what do you say to tank?

Lads I have devoted my life and career to football. You hope to do the same. You are by nature competitors. So this week it is a club wide policy to lose.

Yes I get not every game is a final. Yes some are more important than others. And yes Collingwood won't make finals. But actively trying to lose is contary to everything footy stands for.

If anything the club should've been more ruthless with Buckley last year instead of leaving him in the impossible position he is in now.

 

[magpie_marty]

Yes I get not every game is a final. Yes some are more important than others. And yes Collingwood won't make finals. But actively trying to lose is contary to everything footy stands for.

I agree 110% well said

 

[F_therest]

What does that have to do with winning on the weekend?

Carlton are sitting in same boat as us, 5 wins, and we often play more kids than them each week. So according to the brains trust on here, should be in a race to the bottom now. Put Krooze and Murphy in.cotton wool, stop playing Gibbs coz he might not be there next year, and go for the earliest draft pick as possible. It would be selfish of Bolton to try to get meaningless wins at the end of this year due to Gibbs and K.Simpson playing well but see them end up with only pick 4 or 5 instead of pick 3.

But, the benefits of finishing further down the ladder aren't as strong anymore.

The difference between pick 2, 3 or pick 5 isn't that great, to simply throw away a season.

Back in 99 and 05, the reward for not winning 5 games was an extra top 5 pick...in 99 we jagged pick 1 and 3, which Malthouse then wasted.

In 2005 we jagged pick 2 and 5, which jagged us Pendles.

The incentive to 'tank' is no longer there, which is why clubs don't do it anymore.

I agree with the point of your post but Carlton have gone hard in the draft last 2 years and we typically play 7 players 20 and under every week...not this week though due to injuries and such.

I agree winning culture is better than gaining 2 or 3 spots in the draft but you are in a different position to Carlton because of the coach situation.

Carlton and fans are all about trying to win now... But I can see why some Collingwood supporters almost want to get beaten in order to guarantee change and that Buckley gets moved on and to try to get someone like Sutherland to fix the list imbalance who is projected to be a top 3 pick.

Some Carlton supporters were the same with mick malthouse...wanting to lose so the board had to sack malthouse, for the good of the club long term.

 

[loki04]

Adam Goodes was a pick 43
Simon Black was a pick 31
Danny Roach (cwd) was a pick 7 and Rhyce Shaw a pick 18 in the same draft

Just saying the draft is really a Lotto of talent and not always the top 10 on rankings are the best AFL players.

yeah heaven forbid we get a pick for a top 3-5 player like these and this is just off the top of my head...

Luke Hodge
Chris Judd
Luke Ball
D.Martin
S.Pendlebury
D.Thomas (pre injury)
N.Reiwoldt
L.Frankin
J.Roughead
B.Gibbs
B.Goddard
D.Wells
J.Kelly
M.Bontempelli
Whitfield
J.McVeigh
Cooney
Walker
Delidio
Griffen
Murphy
J.Kennedy
Boak
Kruezer
Cotchin
Naitinui
Hill
Hurley
Hartlett
Swallow
Patton
Tyson
Coniglio
Omeara (mini draft)
Couch (mini draft)
Hogan (mini draft)
Plowman
Stringer
Boyd
Kolidjasne
Billings
Scully
McCartin
Petracca
Weitering
Schache
Mills
Oliver
Parish
Mcgrath
Setterfield
Tarranto
McCluggage

This doesn't even include all the players who likely would of been top picks at GWS and GC as pre selections. Fun game this.

 

[loki04]

Look I am all for going playing the kids route. Short term gain for long term gain.

Yet what do you say to tank?

Lads I have devoted my life and career to football. You hope to do the same. You are by nature competitors. So this week it is a club wide policy to lose.

Yes I get not every game is a final. Yes some are more important than others. And yes Collingwood won't make finals. But actively trying to lose is contary to everything footy stands for.

If anything the club should've been more ruthless with Buckley last year instead of leaving him in the impossible position he is in now.

You don't tell the players to lose there is other ways to manufacture a loss, you want the players trying to win.


Putting players in for surgery or not playing ones with niggles, blooding kids, playing players in experimental positions etc can all help a team to not perform to its best "list" capabilities. But the coaches need to make sure the 22 who do play are primed to try win.

 

[Frank Gallagher]

This. So much this.

Love your work.

 

[Matt_352]

Love your work.

Right back at ya

 

[magpie_marty]

yeah heaven forbid we get a pick for a top 3-5 player like these and this is just off the top of my head...

Luke Hodge
Chris Judd
Luke Ball
D.Martin
S.Pendlebury
D.Thomas (pre injury)
N.Reiwoldt
L.Frankin
J.Roughead
B.Gibbs
B.Goddard
D.Wells
J.Kelly
M.Bontempelli
Whitfield
J.McVeigh
Cooney
Walker
Delidio
Griffen
Murphy
J.Kennedy
Boak
Kruezer
Cotchin
Naitinui
Hill
Hurley
Hartlett
Swallow
Patton
Tyson
Coniglio
Omeara (mini draft)
Couch (mini draft)
Hogan (mini draft)
Plowman
Stringer
Boyd
Kolidjasne
Billings
Scully
McCartin
Petracca
Weitering
Schache
Mills
Oliver
Parish
Mcgrath
Setterfield
Tarranto
McCluggage

This doesn't even include all the players who likely would of been top picks at GWS and GC as pre selections. Fun game this.

A fun game?
I was simply trying to point out some players that where not inside the top 10 draft picks and turned out to be decent footballers.
Congrats on your research tho.

 

[Frank Gallagher]

Play Maynard as a defensive fwd, the kids an animal, play Blair in the middle.

 

[left at home]

Showing he is still Hurting the Club when he knows in his Hears that it's Over..

Hopefully get Thrashed by 10+ Goals might change that

Come on Dave you are better than that.

 

[left at home]

Because he is a Crap Coach and the Club still has not come out and Said he is Gone for 2018 Season

Why would they. And l don't want then to either. I want the players to give it all to the end, not sulk and get thrashings.

 

[Quicky]

Besides the fact we're playing s**t there's no reason that 22 shouldn't knock of the GC.

 

[DWil6]

Besides the fact we're playing s**t there's no reason that 22 shouldn't knock of the GC.

The fact we are playing s**t is a fair reason though. Also they have some ripper ins. I'm torn.

 

[MagpieBat]

Besides the fact we're playing s**t there's no reason that 22 shouldn't knock of the GC.

The fact that we're bad makes it a toss of a coin, for mine.

The less-bad team will win...

 

[robertg22]

GC have a pretty good record at Metricon. They've won 3 of their last 4 there. I think they're deserving favourites. We can win, but not sure we will.

 

[MagpieBat]

 

[Timmy from Thomastown]

That is rubbish Pick 7 has had a good strike rate for good players but really only 1-2 actual stars have sipped to that pick being Selwood namely.

Pick 1 to 5 has generally more often then not, produced genuine stars of the comp compared to 6th -10th.

You want very good odds at getting a genuine match winner and truly elite you need a top 5 pick.

If you are happy with just a good to very good player at hgh odds then pick 6 - 10 is where it's at.

We have enough of the 6-10 type player we need that match winner coming through.

So yes there is a LOT of incentive to help the team to 16th or 17th.

Do you have stats on this or are you just guessing?

 

[nahnah]

We will finish 17th and we won't have to to tank either