Unofficial Preview Changes v Giants Round 7?

[iBeng]

So the McStay conundrum will not be fixed any time soon and I can see why: IF we drop him...Hes going down to scratch matches against second and third tier defenders who he'll make look like witches hats. And thats...great and all, but it just gives a false sense of his actual ability. So when we rush him back into the seniors we'll get the same flash in the pan this week, sitting on the counter the next.

Hes going to be one of those players we eventually lose patience with, gets traded to a Melbourne team for a second or third round pick and then somehow clicks it all together and absolutely dominates his 28-32 year old period.

 

[Mighty Lions]

My opinion is after 4 years for Hipwood and 2 years for McStay the experiment is over.
We cannot get to a flag or win one with that combination. they both play bruise free footy.
Skinner is an unknown and the 1 game he’s played he kicked 2 goals of 5. He May be delisted without another opportunity. If that happens I hope he gets a chance at another club.
Get Jeremy Cameron next year $$ and play Wooler or Ballenden but neither is any more physical than Skinner, after watching our NEAFL last year.
McStay goes back to CHB and Hipwood half forward.
Only my thoughts and open to other opinions.


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Thats a good debate to have also. I would think that if we dont take a step closer to that premiership this season, they will look at trying a different formular up forward. I guess if you look at Fagan's style of coaching he will persist with a theme until he is totally convinced it isnt working. Until then, he will still keep moving ahead with what he has already been building on.

 

[pulpdriver]

Thats a good debate to have also. I would think that if we dont take a step closer to that premiership this season, they will look at trying a different formular up forward. I guess if you look at Fagan's style of coaching he will persist with a theme until he is totally convinced it isnt working. Until then, he will still keep moving ahead with what he has already been building on.

What will be a definitive step closer? Richmond played three finals series where they didn't win, then didn't make the 8 before coming back and being the force they are now with two premierships.

 

[Mighty Lions]

So the McStay conundrum will not be fixed any time soon and I can see why: IF we drop him...Hes going down to scratch matches against second and third tier defenders who he'll make look like witches hats. And thats...great and all, but it just gives a false sense of his actual ability. So when we rush him back into the seniors we'll get the same flash in the pan this week, sitting on the counter the next.

Hes going to be one of those players we eventually lose patience with, gets traded to a Melbourne team for a second or third round pick and then somehow clicks it all together and absolutely dominates his 28-32 year old period.

If you look at most (not all) key forwards, they dont reach their peak until after 25-26 years of age. Dan has just turned 25 years old so you would expect his best footy is in front of him still. Hipwood is 22 years old (not 23 until mid-September) so you could easily argue that he has significant improvement & development coming up for at least 4-5 years before he nears his best footy also. Hawkins @ Geelong was heavily critisised for many years in his early 20's and really didnt start to dominate until well after 25 years old. Its a difficult issue that most clubs deal with almost every year. Ben Brown is another who won the Coleman not long ago but is now copping it from all angles.

 

[Flyin Lion]

So the McStay conundrum will not be fixed any time soon and I can see why: IF we drop him...Hes going down to scratch matches against second and third tier defenders who he'll make look like witches hats. And thats...great and all, but it just gives a false sense of his actual ability. So when we rush him back into the seniors we'll get the same flash in the pan this week, sitting on the counter the next.

Hes going to be one of those players we eventually lose patience with, gets traded to a Melbourne team for a second or third round pick and then somehow clicks it all together and absolutely dominates his 28-32 year old period.

See when GC drop Peter Wright and replace him with King they look so much better going forward. Fagan won’t take that risk so we will never know. Injuries unlikely the way our key
Forwards play, there is no Johnathan Brown about them.


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[Mighty Lions]

See when GC drop Peter Wright and replace him with King they look so much better going forward. Fagan won’t take that risk so we will never know. Injuries unlikely the way our key
Forwards play, there is no Johnathan Brown about them.


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There is no Jono Brown equivalent in the competition at all. They dont come around that easliy or quickly. Both those King boys are loaded with talent and have exciting futures. In saying that, 7 games dosent prove to me that they are the answer for years to come just yet. Once Kings starts to get attention & focus on him, lets see how he performs week in/week out. It's an interesting one and will be good to witness how it develops.

 

[briztoon]

There is no Jono Brown equivalent in the competition at all. They dont come around that easliy or quickly. Both those King boys are loaded with talent and have exciting futures. In saying that, 7 games dosent prove to me that they are the answer for years to come just yet. Once Kings starts to get attention & focus on him, lets see how he performs week in/week out. It's an interesting one and will be good to witness how it develops.

You don’t believe the King twins aren’t already getting the oppositions best defender?

Who else is there in either of St Kilda’s or Gold Coast’s forward lines, that warrant the oppositions best defender?

Sam Day? He isn’t attracting the number one defender.

 

[pulpdriver]

You don’t believe the King twins aren’t already getting the oppositions best defender?

Who else is there in either of St Kilda’s or Gold Coast’s forward lines, that warrant the oppositions best defender?

Sam Day? He isn’t attracting the number one defender.

They're definitely getting the best defender, both look fantastic. Think the comment was more that there's no Jono Browns anymore which is fair enough. At his best he was legitimately unstoppable but one forward just doesn't dictate play like that anymore. Game has changed.

 

[Mighty Lions]

You don’t believe the King twins aren’t already getting the oppositions best defender?

Who else is there in either of St Kilda’s or Gold Coast’s forward lines, that warrant the oppositions best defender?

Sam Day? He isn’t attracting the number one defender.

My comments were more that 7 games doesnt prove they are the long term answer just yet. Its a great start but exactly that....a great start.

 

[Lionheart182]

So the McStay conundrum will not be fixed any time soon and I can see why: IF we drop him...Hes going down to scratch matches against second and third tier defenders who he'll make look like witches hats. And thats...great and all, but it just gives a false sense of his actual ability. So when we rush him back into the seniors we'll get the same flash in the pan this week, sitting on the counter the next.

Hes going to be one of those players we eventually lose patience with, gets traded to a Melbourne team for a second or third round pick and then somehow clicks it all together and absolutely dominates his 28-32 year old period.

Jarrad Waite syndrome.

 

[jackess]

There isn’t a consistent goal kicker in the AFL this season. Expecting McStay to do it is ridiculous

 

[straighttalkin]

From memory (tried to forget) on Thursday it was fairly greasy ball throughout, and we got thrashed around the ball in the 3rd quarter. I was hoping that Forwards/McStay would continue to lead hard for the ball and take marks, but the conditions may have not helped. Still hoping that they implement that style of play more regularly. Actually going for marks, instead of just chucking up the arms. The we could start to get a fair assessment.

 

[iBeng]

See when GC drop Peter Wright and replace him with King they look so much better going forward. Fagan won’t take that risk so we will never know. Injuries unlikely the way our key
Forwards play, there is no Johnathan Brown about them.


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Jonathan Brown worked better than others we have tried like, for example, Michael Close, Jordan Lisle and Paine because Brown had the presence about him. The mongrel. He MADE the defenders be on edge just by being there, AND he could out work them. He was the complete package that you just dont see that often. Its why he was a once in a generation player.

Hipwood has the ability to run around his opponents but he has the presence of a giraffe. McStay COULD do the same but he either doesnt read the play well all the time or he doesnt take the mark, doesnt position right and doesnt quite nail his goals. He sort of does have that presence about him but not the same as Brown.

Hawkins on the weekend had that Brown quality. He had Andrews and Dizzy second guessing themselves. Dixon has it sometimes, didnt have it vs us though. Ben Brown has shown it, Lance Franklin in his own way...Travis Cloke did as well.

 

[Flyin Lion]

From memory (tried to forget) on Thursday it was fairly greasy ball throughout, and we got thrashed around the ball in the 3rd quarter. I was hoping that Forwards/McStay would continue to lead hard for the ball and take marks, but the conditions may have not helped. Still hoping that they implement that style of play more regularly. Actually going for marks, instead of just chucking up the arms. The we could start to get a fair assessment.

Why do you see him stay down and at the back of a marking pack too often when you have Rayner, McCarthy and Charlie flying. I would have thought if McStay goes for it and doesn’t mark it they should all be front and centre for crumbs. This surely couldn’t be a game plan.


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[pulpdriver]

Why do you see him stay down and at the back of a marking pack too often when you have Rayner, McCarthy and Charlie flying. I would have thought if McStay goes for it and doesn’t mark it they should all be front and centre for crumbs. This surely couldn’t be a game plan.


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Rayner definitely positions himself for the crumb, albeit sometimes poorly.
Charlie and Linc prefer to be the target.

 

[Flyin Lion]

Jonathan Brown worked better than others we have tried like, for example, Michael Close, Jordan Lisle and Paine because Brown had the presence about him. The mongrel. He MADE the defenders be on edge just by being there, AND he could out work them. He was the complete package that you just dont see that often. Its why he was a once in a generation player.

Hipwood has the ability to run around his opponents but he has the presence of a giraffe. McStay COULD do the same but he either doesnt read the play well all the time or he doesnt take the mark, doesnt position right and doesnt quite nail his goals. He sort of does have that presence about him but not the same as Brown.

Hawkins on the weekend had that Brown quality. He had Andrews and Dizzy second guessing themselves. Dixon has it sometimes, didnt have it vs us though. Ben Brown has shown it, Lance Franklin in his own way...Travis Cloke did as well.

I Agree with all of that, my question is how long does Fagan wait, as Skinner smashes every contest he goes for in the NEAFL and if you’re in the way you get hurt and if he doesn’t mark it nobody does, our smalls like keays knew this and scored from it. Understand NEAFL isn’t near the standard of AFL but how do these players and supporters find out without opportunity? Do we wait and see them at a different club then criticise the player for leaving?


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[DERRINALPHIL]

There isn’t a consistent goal kicker in the AFL this season. Expecting McStay to do it is ridiculous

Wow, jackess says something that I can agree with. I completely agree that expecting McStay to do better is ridiculous. But I would say this because after five games, twenty quarters, he has been a passenger except for one quarter. I do not see that saying because other forwards are doing poorly we can excuse our forwards. That's not a logical argument. Are you saying, for example, that he is playing as well as Dixon, or lynch?

Last season was similar. I use to cut him some slack when we were a crap team but he drops simple marks and has missed any important shot at goal he has ever taken. We were under sized down back against Geelong. Both Andrews and Gardener were constantly out marked by big forwards.

Could I point out Josh walker has beaten his direct opponent four weeks in a row now with North. In some ways he is a McStay look alike: a good backman and a crap forward but he would have been useful down back as McStay might have been.

 

[straighttalkin]

Why do you see him stay down and at the back of a marking pack too often when you have Rayner, McCarthy and Charlie flying. I would have thought if McStay goes for it and doesn’t mark it they should all be front and centre for crumbs. This surely couldn’t be a game plan.


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Actually leading with hands in front and marking the ball like against Port is what I am hoping for more of.

 

[jackess]

Wow, jackess says something that I can agree with. I completely agree that expecting McStay to do better is ridiculous. But I would say this because after five games, twenty quarters, he has been a passenger except for one quarter. I do not see that saying because other forwards are doing poorly we can excuse our forwards. That's not a logical argument. Are you saying, for example, that he is playing as well as Dixon, or lynch?

Last season was similar. I use to cut him some slack when we were a crap team but he drops simple marks and has missed any important shot at goal he has ever taken. We were under sized down back against Geelong. Both Andrews and Gardener were constantly out marked by big forwards.

Could I point out Josh walker has beaten his direct opponent four weeks in a row now with North. In some ways he is a McStay look alike: a good backman and a crap forward but he would have been useful down back as McStay might have been.

I'd direct you to the votes on here from round 1.

 

[X AE A12]

In: https://pinpointkickingaid.myshopify.com/products/seniors-kicking-aid
Out: nothing

 

[pulpdriver]

In: https://pinpointkickingaid.myshopify.com/products/seniors-kicking-aid
Out: nothing

 

[martinson]

I've always thought McStay was a straight ahead player , big body with a bit of speed , falls down in the skills department occasionally ,absolutely perfect for a backman where the spoiling tactics he's told to use in the forward line would be really useful and he doesn't have to worry about having the big sticks behind him . And where he could get some consistency and confidence.

But whilst we believe we have no one better in his current role and we're awash with options in the backline I think he stays we're he is.

We're definitely in the market for a gun target forward but so are 15 other clubs. They don't grow on trees.

 

[darooda]

Let’s bring witho in so he can get toweled up by Daniels again and remind us that he doesn’t have a defensive side to his game nor any pace for that matter.


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[Lionheart182]

Let’s bring witho in so he can get toweled up by Daniels again and remind us that he doesn’t have a defensive side to his game nor any pace for that matter.


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You'll never get your second like with posts like that.

 

[DERRINALPHIL]

I'd direct you to the votes on here from round 1.

He got the grand total of seven, I mean SEVEN disposals in that game. He kicked two goals but did nothing else. He got two other kicks for the entire game, for goodness sake!!

It was a game that supports my thoughts on McStay but it was too long ago so I thought it wasn't relevant.

I should apologise for my post because the start was a little smart arse.

On another point, I would have liked to put up both original posts but I don't know how to do it. I often see a post with multiple quotes which often allows the development of interesting arguments. Putting jackess' original post and my response post, up together, would make the discussion much more followable. Could someone give directions?