Preview Changes V GWS

[King Elvis]

I was referring to last year. You don't make unecessary changes when thing are going well. If it aint broke you don't fix it.

Then you'll reach a certain level of reasonable performance and then your improvement will stop - we're the perfect example.

 

[JP Sauce]

Then you'll reach a certain level of reasonable performance and then your improvement will stop - we're the perfect example.

Exactly. Never get complacent because no team is ever as good as it can be.

 

[Vader]

You're kidding of course ? ......you mark someone's disposal based on his first year in AFL, after what? ....11 games?

So then Dangerfield needs to be out of core group, because his disposal this year has been at 50% efficiency ....and Shaw had that well & truly covered

Need to stop assessing players on stats .......the eyes have and will continue to see talented players like Shaw

Lets have this conversation again in 2 years time when Shaw is dominating .....and happy to go on record .......hell why was the club wanting to rush him into the side ASAP?

Not at all. Shaw & Otten are basically competing for the same position. Right now Otten is doing very, very well - showing a return to the form he showed back in 2009. Shaw is going to find it very difficult to get back into the side if/when he gets over his injuries. His disposal doesn't help his case either, but it's not the reason why he won't get back in - Otten's good performance is what will keep him out.

 

[WaynesWorld19]

Not at all. Shaw & Otten are basically competing for the same position. Right now Otten is doing very, very well - showing a return to the form he showed back in 2009. Shaw is going to find it very difficult to get back into the side if/when he gets over his injuries. His disposal doesn't help his case either, but it's not the reason why he won't get back in - Otten's good performance is what will keep him out.

Do you think haw is purely a backline player competing with Otten ? ........he was recruited as a midfielder, going to the backline is common to teach the kids the defensive aspect of the game.

Otten to keep Shaw out, no way .......even Sando said Shaw may be played as a forward

You see Vader you have to have a feel for the game rather than try and understand it via stats

 

[cmndstab]

Shaw was absolutely not recruited as a midfielder. He was a third tall, and identified early as a backman rather than up forward. I've got no doubt Rendell dropped a "he's even done good work in the juniors as a midfielder!!" line, which really only means "his good juniors form didn't only come about because he's big". Hell, Otten was the one that was actually recruited as a midfielder, though I can't see any good reason to actually play him there since he's clearly a much better defender.

Somehow I don't think Shaw is going to squeeze in up forward at the moment with us apparently keen to run three ruckmen in the side and Tom Lynch having kicked his bag. Long term, it will only get harder for him with Walker back from next year.

Shaw's AFC career relies on him getting into the side as a third tall backman. No reason why he and Otten can't both play that role, with one taking a loose man position (particularly once Reilly retires), but at the moment if it comes down to a battle between Otten and Shaw for one spot then Otten is well in front at the moment.


Not sure what the line about feeling the game instead of looking at stats is about. Don't even think stats were mentioned. Looks like cheap pointscoring to me.

 

[Thylacinus]

I have vague memories of Shaw being considered a tall rebounding pacy half back flanker or wing when first added to the list.

 

[Vader]

Do you think haw is purely a backline player competing with Otten ? ........he was recruited as a midfielder, going to the backline is common to teach the kids the defensive aspect of the game.

Otten to keep Shaw out, no way .......even Sando said Shaw may be played as a forward

You see Vader you have to have a feel for the game rather than try and understand it via stats

Sorry.. I just don't buy that. He's a 3rd KPP defender, not a developing HBF player like Smith. That means he's competing head-to-head with Otten.

Looking back through his Locker Room thread, he's described as being "able to play multiple positions", with most posts noting his speed and agility. No particular position seems to have been mentioned at draft time, though I can't access the relevant article on AFC.com.au, as the AFL broke all the old links in one of their site downgrades.

 

[WaynesWorld19]

Sorry.. I just don't buy that. He's a 3rd KPP defender, not a developing HBF player like Smith. That means he's competing head-to-head with Otten.

Looking back through his Locker Room thread, he's described as being "able to play multiple positions", with most posts noting his speed and agility. No particular position seems to have been mentioned at draft time, though I can't access the relevant article on AFC.com.au, as the AFL broke all the old links in one of their site downgrades.

He did come as a midfielder .......but just seeing how Shaw plays says he's a bit like Goodwin was ....Goodwin started at HB and then slowly into the midfield

Midfielders are getting bigger ....having a 193cm midfielder who is quick and good overhead improves our structure no end

The point or debate is that Shaw IS NOT a single position player ......but then IMO neither is Otten

 

[Vader]

I don't see him becoming a midfielder. Right now, I have trouble seeing him having a long AFL career in any position for two reasons:
A) His body is just too injury prone, perpetually suffering soft tissue injuries.
B) His kicking at times can be truly awful.

He's only 191cm (at least that's what his Locker Room profile says he was when drafted). I agree that's not too tall to be a mid - Brodie Smith is actually listed at 194cm and most of us are expecting him to move into the midfield eventually. I just don't see it happening for him.

 

[Jack is Back]

I would love to see Sam Shaw play as the run and carry half back flanker. He can play as the third defender but his ability to provide run and carry should not be underestimated. This would allow us to release Brodie Smith into the midfield.

Reilly Rutten Otten

Brown Talia Shaw

with Laird as the extra defender coming off the interchange.

Missing out - Jaensch (NaBA), Tambling, Mackay (fighting for a spot on the wing), Henderson (ditto), L. Thompson

 

[Wood_Duck]

I would love to see Sam Shaw play as the run and carry half back flanker. He can play as the third defender but his ability to provide run and carry should not be underestimated. This would allow us to release Brodie Smith into the midfield.

Reilly Rutten Otten

Brown Talia Shaw

with Laird as the extra defender coming off the interchange.

Missing out - Jaensch (NaBA), Tambling, Mackay (fighting for a spot on the wing), Henderson (ditto), L. Thompson

Much rather Laird over Shaw. Would really worry about small forwards running rings around that setup.

 

[WaynesWorld19]

I don't see him becoming a midfielder. Right now, I have trouble seeing him having a long AFL career in any position for two reasons:
A) His body is just too injury prone, perpetually suffering soft tissue injuries.
B) His kicking at times can be truly awful.

He's only 191cm (at least that's what his Locker Room profile says he was when drafted). I agree that's not too tall to be a mid - Brodie Smith is actually listed at 194cm and most of us are expecting him to move into the midfield eventually. I just don't see it happening for him.

Well Smith is 188-189cm .....and on the website Shaw is listed as 193cm which was always my understanding anyway ......but you can't believe any of the stats the club publishes

I don't subscribe to the "injury prone" tag applied .......sure he has had a lot of back related hamstrings, but that's not unheard of in AFL land ......most players overcome the issues with body maturity
Hartlett was worse for injuries ......don't see Port writing him off
Menzel is on his 4th knee reco ......don't see Geelong writing him off
Rehn had how many knee reco's .....thankfully we didn't write him off
Joel Selwood dropped to pick 7 in the draft due to injury prone knees ......bad analysis by AFL clubs
So you'll excuse me if i don't buy the "injury prone" argument

As for kicking .....how can you assess a player based on year 1 of his career ......of course his disposal will improve as he gets truly accustomed to AFL pace, which you ignored .......remember he played more reserves games than SANFL games

Off FootyWire:

Sam Shaw
#34 Adelaide Crows
Age: 22yr 1mth Games: 14 Born: April 5, 1991
Height: 193cm Weight: 88kg Position: Defender
Last Drafted: Round 3, Pick #45 2009 National Draft
Last Drafted By: Adelaide Crows
Supercoach Price: $390,100 Supercoach Profile
Dream Team Price: $302,300 Dream Team Profile
Status: Hamstring injury, Expected return: TBA AFL Injury List

 

[Vader]

How can I label him as injury prone... Well, let's start by how many weeks he's been available for selection in the 3 1/2 years he's spent on our list. His count for 2013 remains at zero. His count for 2010 and 2011 combined is well in single digits. He also missed at least 2 games last season, during the period where he was our preferred 3rd KPP. All up, I'd suggest he's been AWOL for close on 85% of his time on our list. If that doesn't qualify for "injury prone", then what does? His record makes Nick Gill's look good - and he was only available one week in three.

I agree that kicking under pressure improves with experience, as players adjust to the speed of the game. My recollection though was that his kicking problems weren't restricted to "pressure kicks". It was last year though, so my memory of specific moments is probably getting a bit hazy.

There's no doubt that the kid is talented - that's why the Crows gave him a contract at the end of 2011, despite him only having played a handful of SANFL games in 2 years. It's worth noting that they only gave him a 12-month contract at that time, because they were concerned about his durability. His performances last year resulted in a 2-year contract, which was just reward for a good season. Whether or not he can capitalise on his talent, or whether injuries will get the better of him (as they have so many other players), only time will tell.

 

[WaynesWorld19]

Shaw was absolutely not recruited as a midfielder. He was a third tall, and identified early as a backman rather than up forward. I've got no doubt Rendell dropped a "he's even done good work in the juniors as a midfielder!!" line, which really only means "his good juniors form didn't only come about because he's big". Hell, Otten was the one that was actually recruited as a midfielder, though I can't see any good reason to actually play him there since he's clearly a much better defender.

Somehow I don't think Shaw is going to squeeze in up forward at the moment with us apparently keen to run three ruckmen in the side and Tom Lynch having kicked his bag. Long term, it will only get harder for him with Walker back from next year.

Shaw's AFC career relies on him getting into the side as a third tall backman. No reason why he and Otten can't both play that role, with one taking a loose man position (particularly once Reilly retires), but at the moment if it comes down to a battle between Otten and Shaw for one spot then Otten is well in front at the moment
.

Wrong again cmndstab ........

Phantom draft 2009

Pick #59 - Carlton - Sam Shaw - 191cm, 77kg - 5 April 91 - Oakleigh Chargers

Again, the next player on my list.

Sam played 3 games in the carnival this year averaging 13 touches and 2 tackles. Hasn't played a great deal of TAC Cup as he plays for his school Xavier. In the 5 games he has played for Oakleigh he has averaged 20 touches, 4 marks, a little over 2 tackles and named in the best in all of the 5 games.

Played predominately as a flanker, mainly across half forward from what i've seen. He has good pace for someone his size and a very good pair of hands. Fairly athletic, agility seems impressive and has a lovely left foot kick. He also seems to work fairly well defensively.

Still lightly framed and not the most aggressive player going around. Could be a nice handy player at this pick, could turn into a good prospect if given a heads up on how to lead and utilize so of his work.

2009 Draft camp results
Shaw is both quick and with excellent agility ......IMO perfect midfield material at his height

0-metre sprint (seconds)

1. Ayden Kennedy 2.88
2. Dustin Martin 2.89
3. Andrew Hooper 2.90
4. Sam Reid 2.92
=5. Sam Shaw 2.93
=5. Kane Lucas
=5. Gary Rohan
=8. Lewis Jetta 2.95
=8. Dylan Grimes
=10. Robbie Hicks 2.96
=10. Jack Fitzpatrick
=10. Bradley Sheppard
=10. Travis Colyer
Agility (seconds)

1. Kane Lucas 7.95
2. Andrew Hooper 7.98
3. Sam Shaw 8.08
4. Ayden Kennedy 8.12
5. Travis Colyer 8.14
6. Jessie Crichton 8.15
7. Jake Melksham 8.16
8. Andrew Moore 8.17
=9. Dylan Grimes 8.20
=9. Mitchell Duncan 8.20

Just tell me where he's playing in this video highlights package ......looks more forward /midfield to me?

 

[alex_is_on_fire]

I have vague memories of Shaw being considered a tall rebounding pacy half back flanker or wing when first added to the list.

Yep, i have this feeling as well and agree with you.

 

[alex_is_on_fire]

How far away is he from resuming and playing fore the Bays?

Anyone know.

 

[WaynesWorld19]

How far away is he from resuming and playing fore the Bays?

Anyone know.

Think they said last week 4-5 weeks

 

[alex_is_on_fire]

Think they said last week 4-5 weeks

So hopefully the week after the mid season break he can resume with the Bays and hopefully he can get 3 or 4 AFL games in this season.

 

[WaynesWorld19]

So hopefully the week after the mid season break he can resume with the Bays and hopefully he can get 3 or 4 AFL games in this season.

He'll play more than that ...with the mid season break

We've played 7 AFL games now .....another 4 weeks plus mid season ....IMO he'll play 4 games with Glenelg and 7 AFL games leading to finals

 

[Wood_Duck]

He'll play more than that ...with the mid season break

We've played 7 AFL games now .....another 4 weeks plus mid season ....IMO he'll play 4 games with Glenelg and 7 AFL games leading to finals

Not convinced, our defence has been pretty good of late, who does he replace?

 

[WaynesWorld19]

Not convinced, our defence has been pretty good of late, who does he replace?

Smith to wing ......Shaw replaces Smith

When you look at WC they're forward line is huge size wise ......Shaw gives us extra height but not to detriment of speed ...as Shaw is as quick as Smith, if not quicker

 

[PyroCrow]

I don't see him becoming a midfielder. Right now, I have trouble seeing him having a long AFL career in any position for two reasons:
A) His body is just too injury prone, perpetually suffering soft tissue injuries.
B) His kicking at times can be truly awful.

He's only 191cm (at least that's what his Locker Room profile says he was when drafted). I agree that's not too tall to be a mid - Brodie Smith is actually listed at 194cm and most of us are expecting him to move into the midfield eventually. I just don't see it happening for him.

Mackay seems to have gotten over his soft tissue issues. If he can do it Shaw has a decent chance.

 

[Jack is Back]

Much rather Laird over Shaw. Would really worry about small forwards running rings around that setup.

We play six defenders on the ground and one on the interchange bench hence you don't have to choose Shaw or Laird providing you are happy to play Brodie Smith in the midfield

Last week our 7 defenders were Reilly, Rutten, Otten, Smith, Talia, Brown and Laird (with a little help from vB, Mackay and Kerridge). We currently need Smith to provide run out of defence unless we decide to go back to NaBA Jaensch or Mackay. We will be a significantly stronger team once (if) Shaw is fit and firing.

 

[Sanders]

He did come as a midfielder ......

Are you talking about Sam Shaw?

Because he certainly did not come as a mid if you are.

He just didn't.

 

[AFC979810]

Mackay seems to have gotten over his soft tissue issues. If he can do it Shaw has a decent chance.

Mackay played 18 games in his second season on our list. He then played 20 games in his third season.

The issue is that Shaw has played a total of 14 games in his 3 years on our list. Have no idea why people keep comparing Kane Johnson / Mackay to Sam Shaw as they are very bad examples.