Preview Changes v Norf

Us against the rest

Brownlow Medallist
Sep 26, 2012
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what an absolute crap statement, sick of hearing this when the club has developed plenty of players especially from a low draft pick, not all players turn out to be as good as we had hoped and this goes for all clubs.

also on selection i dont understand why we need to make so many changes, whilst sutcliffe didnt have a big possession game he played his role and kicked 2 along the way. Motlop has been poor for large parts of the season so show me more before he comes in. Burton a week in the SANFL to get the leg right, possibly Lycett in for Ryder but that is a tough one between the 3
Our terrible skill level and shocking selections is the reason we haven't played more finals. That is the clubs fault.
 

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Enviable Tradition

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Oct 12, 2007
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So Marvel is a quick deck. North play fast, attacking but predictable footy. They appear to be running out of steam.

We need to be playing a settled side that we will take to the finals, give or take.

Some questions:
- can Ladhams or Lycett play the resting ruck/forward role and not just be the number one ruck? If so, then Ryder out for Lycett.
- what was the purpose of dropping Lycett? To have him get form? Make him work on something? Get fit/rest? Show him who the boss is? Has the point been made and heard?
- should Burton come straight in or be given a chance to build fitness and test the hamstring in the SANFL?
- can Drew, Motlop or Farrell left their defensive game to play that defensive forward role? If so, Sutcliffe out.
- Has Motlop learnt the lesson of why he is playing SANFL. I would be inclined to leave him there and really make him earn it.
- Has Butters freshened up after the week off? If yes, he comes back in.
- Are there any particular North Melbourne set ups or structures to be concerned about? Ie do we need another tall defender?

To break it down.

Out: Ryder, Sutcliffe
In: Butters, Lycett

Emerg: Drew, Motlop, Howard, Ryder, Sutcliffe, Trengove(non travelling)

Next week - Burton for Broadbent.
I cant help but feel that if we bring Motlop back in now he won't have learnt his lesson.

He really needs to earn it through continued good form or known that he only got in via injury and he absolutely has to prove himself.

I feel like Motlop being a last minute inclusion at finals time and desperate could be a real bonus for us.

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Enviable Tradition

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Cheesey Mac

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Ditts on MMM suggesting maybe Lycett was out for disciplinary reasons.
Take it with a grain of salt, but I heard this independently of the radio.

The story I got was that when we went into the GWS intercept-a-thon without any key forwards the plan was for Lycett to drift forward to make a contest (which clearly didn't happen from him or any other player forward of the ball), and he didn't follow the team dictate that he do that in that game. He was then dropped for not following team rules.

The issue the coach has created for himself is that he wasn't honest about this when pressed in the media... It wasn't injury... It wasn't form... So what was it?... He can't drop Ladhams on form without looking a bit silly, he can't really drop Ryder either for the same reason... And now that he's finally playing a traditional forward structure (which, shock horror, is working) bringing in another ruckman probably makes the side a bit too tall. Really though, if he was honest about the reason for dropping him in the first place then the narrative is a lot different to what we have now, but potentially puts pressure on Lycett rather than on himself, so that's probably the method to his madness there.

FWIW I'd rather have Lycett than Ladhams, but again, it is hard to drop Ladhams when Ken sold it as 'rewarding Ladham's form in the SANFL'... You can just see Lycett killing it in the SANFL, Ladhams having a good-to-average game in the AFL and Ken finding a way to bring him in for the Freo game under the pretense of form.

Other than that, if fit Burton for Bonner for me.
 

Willsy10

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Woodcock has been pretty good for a while , why shouldn't he be a chance to play? Especially considering the current small forwards in S Gray and Sutcliffe are just hanging in the side by a thread at the moment. Having said that i'd have him behind Butters and Motlop though.
 

Portology

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Ryder surely has to make way for Lycett, and we need to see Ladhams learn a bit of part time second tall forward around Charlie and Todd.

Sutcliffe had a career best against a hapless Essendon at Marvel two weeks ago but has been "less than average", on average, every other game... not horses for courses but I want to see Drew back in the side after that SANFL effort. Not afraid of "too many inside mids" and going head to head with North. Not afraid of Pittard's and Polec's demonstrated ability to punish opposition turnovers this year... or for most of the last few years to be honest.

If I trusted Motlop to work as hard as Sam Gray does, all the time, he'd be in the 22 every week. So I want Butters in if fit, and, grudgingly, Mots if not.

Last time Wines came back from injury he took a week to settle in. Expecting better things this week.

If Burton is back from a hammy the SANFL is the place to test it, not the bloody Marvel deck. Bonner stays put.
 

Jason K

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The problem with playing Drew is we already have so many inside mids that Hinkley plays our best one as a HFF. We've already wasted 3 peak Travis Boak years. Trav's best position is onball and he's better at it than any other player in our team bar Robbie. We don't need to jam more inside mids into this side. If Drew is in then Rocky or Ollie are out. It's the only way
 

OneGreatClub

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Take it with a grain of salt, but I heard this independently of the radio.

The story I got was that when we went into the GWS intercept-a-thon without any key forwards the plan was for Lycett to drift forward to make a contest (which clearly didn't happen from him or any other player forward of the ball), and he didn't follow the team dictate that he do that in that game. He was then dropped for not following team rules.

The issue the coach has created for himself is that he wasn't honest about this when pressed in the media... It wasn't injury... It wasn't form... So what was it?... He can't drop Ladhams on form without looking a bit silly, he can't really drop Ryder either for the same reason... And now that he's finally playing a traditional forward structure (which, shock horror, is working) bringing in another ruckman probably makes the side a bit too tall. Really though, if he was honest about the reason for dropping him in the first place then the narrative is a lot different to what we have now, but potentially puts pressure on Lycett rather than on himself, so that's probably the method to his madness there.

FWIW I'd rather have Lycett than Ladhams, but again, it is hard to drop Ladhams when Ken sold it as 'rewarding Ladham's form in the SANFL'... You can just see Lycett killing it in the SANFL, Ladhams having a good-to-average game in the AFL and Ken finding a way to bring him in for the Freo game under the pretense of form.

Other than that, if fit Burton for Bonner for me.
Yes I agree there was probably method in his madness.

Unless they are forced to clubs won’t state that players are out for disciplinary reasons, but if the disciplinary reason was that Lycett didn’t follow coaches instructions and had a part in losing us the GWS game, then the coaches have actually alluded to it anyway by saying he has some things to work on ( like following coaches instructions)

We can all hate on Ken but he has made some tough decisions this year in dropping key players and big names, he has played our youth from game one and finally perhaps he has last learned that we need those three tall forwards in each game ( 2 plus resting ruck)
I will always give credit if someone is learning from their errors, even if it has taken a very long time.
Even Nathan Buckley said recently that he has made many mistakes and is learning still.
 

chiwigi

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Woodcock has been pretty good for a while , why shouldn't he be a chance to play? Especially considering the current small forwards in S Gray and Sutcliffe are just hanging in the side by a thread at the moment. Having said that i'd have him behind Butters and Motlop though.
Absolutely if it's on merit.

If it's on a promise made before the start of the season then...

Play him for Sutcliffe.
 

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FutureShock

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Having Butters do the team thing and admit he was not 100% and then not give him his place back would be very bad for the team long term.

What do you think the next player will do when he doesn't feel 100%.

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Be professional and put the team first, hopefully. It's not like Butters had made his spot safe. Not saying he won't come back in though.
 

Powerstufff

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Ditts on MMM suggesting maybe Lycett was out for disciplinary reasons.
When Lycett was dropped and Ladhams announced as an in Hinkley said something about Lycett in his last 2 games not doing what was expected or what he was instructed to or some variant of that. But didn't we all hear that?
 

B0ydmental

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Yes I agree there was probably method in his madness.

Unless they are forced to clubs won’t state that players are out for disciplinary reasons, but if the disciplinary reason was that Lycett didn’t follow coaches instructions and had a part in losing us the GWS game, then the coaches have actually alluded to it anyway by saying he has some things to work on ( like following coaches instructions)

We can all hate on Ken but he has made some tough decisions this year in dropping key players and big names, he has played our youth from game one and finally perhaps he has last learned that we need those three tall forwards in each game ( 2 plus resting ruck)
I will always give credit if someone is learning from their errors, even if it has taken a very long time.
Even Nathan Buckley said recently that he has made many mistakes and is learning still.
What crap about being stoic to preserve discipline
Because he has rewarded mediocrity of performance for years
And if the underperformance from players was because they properly executed his imperfect instructions then he is at fault.

Would ken drop himself for failing to execute obligation #1...win games?

The guy plays favorites.
 

Adds76

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Every coach has favorites. They have too. I think the coaching staff have managed the players well, port isnt like the tingles whos coach has lost the players the last couple years
 

malcolm

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Get them in: Hard side to get into after the Power's 47-point win against Sydney last weekend. Willem Drew (38 disposals), Scott Lycett (30 disposals, 33 hitouts) and Steven Motlop (five goals) pushed their cases in the SANFL. Ryan Burton (hamstring) and Zak Butters (bruised sternum) should also be available.

Under the pump: The goals have dried up for Sam Gray, the small forward kicking four goals in his past four games. Cam Sutcliffe, Matthew Broadbent and Paddy Ryder could also be under pressure.

Medical room: Burton and Butters will be assessed. Burton hasn't played for a month.

Toyota WorkHorse Verdict: Two changes – Butters and Motlop for Sam Gray and Sutcliffe. – Lee Gaskin

 

portly

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It has been great. I’m just no where near the point of building a golden statute of Hinkley because of our last 2 wins.
Doubt if Hinkley has had much to to with these good wins if the last 4 years behaviours are taken into account.

Far more likely he has been told to listen to his assistants.
 

Janus

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Janus said:
It’s interesting you mention Woodcock - I never, ever dream about football, but the other day I had a dream that Woodcock was playing deep forward in the GF and kicked 5 goals. Rozee was playing half forward and went and gave him a big hug every time.

The commentators were all like “Where did this guy come from?”
It can’t come true unless he’s in the team :)

Oh, and Motlop is no chance. If you look through what happens every year, Hinkley gives a player two chances to perform. The first time they are dropped, they are still in the frame for selection because s**t happens - it could be loss of form or whatever. The second time...they aren’t seen again for the year.
 

Adds76

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Interesting observation janus, your right about hinkley, he moves on for a while and really makes a player earn his spot back. Tough love
 

Hardcore

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Seriously? We have far too many players who can't execute a 20-30 pass or even kick to a teammate's advantage.
Yeah making the wrong choice will lead to looking poor skills, look at hammers first 2 touches on the weekend he has great skills but chose to hit up a short kick to a player outside of his foot.

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BillyW

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Ryder surely has to make way for Lycett
I agree....Ladhams needs a run as the 2nd ruck but also a go againat Goldy to see if we take him into Sept (if we make it) or Ryder....

Having Butters do the team thing and admit he was not 100% and then not give him his place back would be very bad for the team long term.
Agree.........Butters comes back when ready to reward his honesty.....
 

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