Preview / changes v North Melbourne

[telsor]

Holy shit, that's ******.

We're not bitching about our injury list because of one or two outs....

Our top end talent has held up reasonably well, but we're scraping the barrel when it comes to depth, particularly wth smalls. Of those 8 players, the only 2 smalls left were Verrier and Turner, both rookies, and both recruited more as long term development than anything else and although they have good passages of play, they're nowhere near AFL level as yet. (and Turner was the one who broke his finger in the 2nd...).

Thankfully we have Martin and Jackson back this week, because with Batchelor being injured, if those 2 had another week we either would have needed to play Arnot/Helbig (straight back from injury), promote/play Verrier or play an extra tall.

As it is, we have the 'luxury' or actually choosing one small/mid to sit out rather than playing everyone who was available.

I hate that we play at Cairns for many reasons, and think we shouldn't be there, but we lost that game more because of our outs than the venue.

 

[GarnerSmash]

Thing is we have McGuane, Mini-Maric, Andrew Browne, Webberley and Post (and more) playing good VFL football most weeks but that doesn't make it depth unless they can play to AFL football intensity.

In my opinion looking from outside in:

Depth: Cunnington, Greenwood, Cam Delaney, (almost put Mullet here)

Good VFL players that can't adapt to AFL: Pederson, Warren, McKinley, Luke Delaney, Speight

Possible depth but not ready or unproven: Daw, Garlett, Sierakowski, Mullet, Mckenzie

And I have no idea who Kennedy is.

Not a bad analysis. I'd chuck Pedersen up onto the actual depth pile. He has performed well at AFL level. L. Delaney has his moments too.

Kennedy is Ayden Kennedy, pick 41 2009 draft, 192cm 90kg third tall type with excellent agility and speed. Capable of playing wing. Tested fastest in draft camp. Did his knee at the start of last year so missed the full year. Started in the VFL this year and has been excelling off the back flank and in shutting his opponent down. Superb kick and likely to get a gig early next year. Longest neck in the AFL.

 

[GarnerSmash]

We're not bitching about our injury list because of one or two outs....

Our top end talent has held up reasonably well, but we're scraping the barrel when it comes to depth, particularly wth smalls. Of those 8 players, the only 2 smalls left were Verrier and Turner, both rookies, and both recruited more as long term development than anything else and although they have good passages of play, they're nowhere near AFL level as yet. (and Turner was the one who broke his finger in the 2nd...).

Thankfully we have Martin and Jackson back this week, because with Batchelor being injured, if those 2 had another week we either would have needed to play Arnot/Helbig (straight back from injury), promote/play Verrier or play an extra tall.

As it is, we have the 'luxury' or actually choosing one small/mid to sit out rather than playing everyone who was available.

I hate that we play at Cairns for many reasons, and think we shouldn't be there, but we lost that game more because of our outs than the venue.

It becomes quite obvious that depth is a necessity in todays game in situations like this. No one can be carried anymore. All teams need around 30-35 capable AFL players to be able to go the full season.

 

[telsor]

It becomes quite obvious that depth is a necessity in todays game in situations like this. No one can be carried anymore. All teams need around 30-35 capable AFL players to be able to go the full season.

I challenge any team to do well when they are, quite literally, down to playing every available mid (excluding rookies), regardless of their form. I'm sure some would do better than we are, but all would struggle.

 

[GarnerSmash]

I challenge any team to do well when they are, quite literally, down to playing every available mid (excluding rookies), regardless of their form. I'm sure some would do better than we are, but all would struggle.

Undoubtedly.

 

[Bazzar]

It becomes quite obvious that depth is a necessity in todays game in situations like this. No one can be carried anymore. All teams need around 30-35 capable AFL players to be able to go the full season.

So far the Tiges have used 35 and North 34

 

[the big lebowski]

Thing is we have McGuane, Mini-Maric, Andrew Browne, Webberley and Post (and more) playing good VFL football most weeks but that doesn't make it depth unless they can play to AFL football intensity.

In my opinion looking from outside in:

Depth: Cunnington, Greenwood, Cam Delaney, (almost put Mullet here)

Possible depth but not ready or unproven: Daw, Garlett, Sierakowski, Mullet, Mckenzie

Good VFL players that can't adapt to AFL: Pederson, Warren, McKinley, Luke Delaney, Speight

And I have no idea who Kennedy is.

Pretty close. You are off with Pedersen though. He was fantastic for us last year, 20 odd touches in his first game against Cox, then moved forward and kicked 2 goals a game as a forward. Most North fans were crying out for his inclusion this year in place of Tarrant, and i'll admit that this seems to have been wrong given Tarrants performances since the Adelaide game. However Pedo is the very definition of a good depth player (at least).

Garlett probably as well. He'll get it 20 times at AFL level if given the opportunity.

The rest is spot on.

 

[Harmichael]

Dunno why we never persisted with developing Post in the ruck, IIRC, he played a few games as a back-up ruck in 2010 and it was probably the best he ever looked at AFL level.

Anyone's better than Doofus Graham - even Miller. Hell, I'd rather play Tuck as first ruck than Graham, in fact I reckon the other Maric would probably do a better job too. I've never seen a worse player at AFL level, and I've seen all of Oakley-Nicholls' senior appearances. Maybe we should've kept him instead of Gus and developed him as a ruck, at least he was quick and could jump.

 

[PHX]

Post is only 195cm and a twig. He would be destroyed long-term.

 

[Harmichael]

Post is only 195cm and a twig. He would be destroyed long-term.

Jeez, when did you last see him? I'll think you'll find he's far from a "twig" these days.

I meant as a ruck/utility and certainly not a primary ruck but if the choice was between him & Graham as cover, I know who I'd prefer.

 

[PHX]

He wouldn't be much more than 90kgs. Ruckmen need to be closer to 100kgs.

Between him and Graham, I'll probably give you Post but I'd rather we drop Graham and give Browne a go.

 

[TheTigerArmy]

Would love it to be Kingy... Man we miss his hardeness... (that's what she said)

Gee hope its is him need his forward pressure..helps free up the midfield to..

 

[Tas]

All i am saying is that your coach admitted in the media that he put to much faith into your second tier and youngsters and made a mistake, it wasnt as if you had injuries, he was dropping players thinking that the inclusions were better options. The bonus for him was that didnt have an injury list forcing his hand and thats why who came in, came in.

Our coach made an interesting statement during the pre-season that only about half the positions in the side were currently claimed by players. I don't think his motivation is to play untried second tier kids in roles, there just wasn't anyone who had been playing the roles well enough and we had to try different players in different roles. The only senior player that is playing now that wasn't playing at the start of the year is Grima, and that was due to injury. The reason for the change of form is because the second tier group has stepped up and some are pushing to be first tier and claim roles that were previously unclaimed.

I can't think of any 'second tier' or 'young' player that was getting games ahead of anyone that was playing well. The only senior players not in the side are Edwards, McKinley, Pedersen, Richardson, Warren and Greenwood. Edwards played early in the season, was good early but his form dropped off quite savagely in the end before he got dropped and he was the best performing of that senior group. Pedersen has had deficiencies in the game he has been working on and is showing good form currently and should get a look if a position arises, but it is hard to make changes to a team currently playing well.

Not having injuries is a definite bonus, but it depends on who gets injured, our problem in 2010 and 2011 where we had a lot of injuries was we got hit in terms of core players and depth players in the same role which made it hard to cope with.

Guys like Atley, Wright, Harper, etc might be considered second tier but they are evolving into roles and filling roles that have been left vacant or aren't being filled by senior players. Atley has taken over Rawling's role from retirement, Wright has taken over Greenwood's run-with/utlity role and offensively he is far more potent than Greenwood, but Greenwood has been in terrible form this year and doesn't deserve a senior game. Harper has also largely pushed Campbell out of the side, he also hasn't had the form to warrant much footy. We are still giving kids games ahead of guys who are out of form.

At the end of the day the structures etc can only work when those who you select to execute them can execute and if they cant, then you just about know where you are at, in terms of depth and have to rely on the base 22 week in week out. Your recent form is directly linked to you having by and large your best 22 on the field.

Yes and no. Our best 22 are those who are currently playing well. Last year Pedersen, Greenwood, Edwards, etc were in our best 22, they are not in our current best 22 this year. The benefit of fewer injuries is your pool of available players is larger, it comes down to who gets injured and what form they are in. We are in good form because that second tier of good quality young kids is forcing older players with much more significant limitations out of the side. We have had injuries to some important players, they just haven't been long-term thankfully.

Question is if the form will hold or not and if we cop injuries who gets injured and how easy are they to replace while maintaining the structure of the side.

 

[CoggaRules]

Our coach made an interesting statement during the pre-season that only about half the positions in the side were currently claimed by players. I don't think his motivation is to play untried second tier kids in roles, there just wasn't anyone who had been playing the roles well enough and we had to try different players in different roles. The only player that is playing now that wasn't playing at the start of the year is Grima, and that was due to injury. The reason for the change of form is because the second tier group has stepped up and some are pushing to be first tier and claim roles that were previously unclaimed.

I can't think of any 'second tier' or 'young' player that was getting games ahead of anyone that was playing well. The only senior players not in the side are Edwards, McKinley, Pedersen, Richardson, Warren and Greenwood. Edwards played early in the season, was good early but his form dropped off quite savagely in the end before he got dropped and he was the best performing of that senior group. Pedersen has had deficiencies in the game he has been working on and is showing good form currently and should get a look if a position arises, but it is hard to make changes to a team currently playing well.

Not having injuries is a definite bonus, but it depends on who gets injured, our problem in 2010 and 2011 where we had a lot of injuries was we got hit in terms of core players and depth players in the same role which made it hard to cope with.

Guys like Atley, Wright, Harper, etc might be considered second tier but they are evolving into roles and filling roles that have been left vacant or aren't being filled by senior players. Atley has taken over Rawling's role from retirement, Wright has taken over Greenwood's run-with/utlity role and offensively he is far more potent than Greenwood, but Greenwood has been in terrible form this year and doesn't deserve a senior game. Harper has also largely pushed Campbell out of the side, he also hasn't had the form to warrant much footy. We are still giving kids games ahead of guys who are out of form.



Yes and no. Our best 22 are those who are currently playing well. Last year Pedersen, Greenwood, Edwards, etc were in our best 22, they are not in our current best 22 this year. The benefit of fewer injuries is your pool of available players is larger, it comes down to who gets injured and what form they are in. We are in good form because that second tier of good quality young kids is forcing older players with much more significant limitations out of the side. We have had injuries to some important players, they just haven't been long-term thankfully.

Question is if the form will hold or not and if we cop injuries who gets injured and how easy are they to replace while maintaining the structure of the side.

Anyway dude, Nice long post, but at the end of the day, most of us here dont give a rats about the Roos, as is the case with greater % of the population and we are in a tiger BF forum and all that matters to us that we bag the points next week and after that your team is irrelevant to us....But nice post...

 

[Tas]

Anyway dude, Nice long post, but at the end of the day, most of us here dont give a rats about the Roos, as is the case with greater % of the population and we are in a tiger BF forum and all that matters to us that we bag the points next week and after that your team is irrelevant to us....But nice post...

It is a preview discussion, I don't really care if you value my opinion or care about North, I am just discussing the upcoming game and clearing what I think are incorrect assumptions about why we are playing well.

If you guys don't want opposition supporters to give input, should put it on the thread.

 

[Bazzar]

Anyway dude, Nice long post, but at the end of the day, most of us here dont give a rats about the Roos, as is the case with greater % of the population and we are in a tiger BF forum and all that matters to us that we bag the points next week and after that your team is irrelevant to us....But nice post...

Can you give a quick summary for those who couldnt be bothered reading it?

 

[Greggy]

It is a preview discussion, I don't really care if you value my opinion or care about North, I am just discussing the upcoming game and clearing what I think are incorrect assumptions about why we are playing well.

If you guys don't want opposition supporters to give input, should put it on the thread.

I appreciate your input, you know your club well.

 

[tugga]

I appreciate your input, you know your club well.

x 2
Always a welcome contributor on our board and one of the better opposition posters to contribute regularly.

 

[LETSGOKANGAS]

I reckon if North have more total points than Richmond at the end of the game we will win.

In : Cunnington
Out : Ziebell

 

[PHX]

Kangas seem pretty confident on Petrie and Adams. More confident than I am they will get up.

 

[_RT_]

Out: Batchelor(inj) McGuane Webberley Derickx Graham(all omit)
In: Martin Jackson Maric Post Astbury

B: Newman Rance Morris
HB: Houli Moore Dea
C: Grigg Martin Ellis
HF: Deledio Post Conca
F: Edwards Riewoldt Nahas
R: I.Maric Cotchin Tuck
INT: Astbury Jackson A.Maric
SUB: O'Hanlon

This is what I would like to see and it has changed up a bit from the first post I made in this thread. I like this lineup as it gives us flexibility with Astbury and Post being able to play both ends of the ground. Our midfield depth is also improved with the addition of Maric Martin & Jackson. I also think the best way for us to beat the Roos is to try and get them on the spread and I just don't think that McGuane Derickx and Graham are able to help in that style of play.

 

[theflea]

x 2
Always a welcome contributor on our board and one of the better opposition posters to contribute regularly.

plus 3

 

[Old Skool]

Thing is we have.........Andrew Browne

He was good against the likes of 193 cm Pederson and 195cm Daw. Goldstein is a whole other ball game.

I'm figuring Richmond will have to elevate him as insurance regardless of Maric's selection.

And I have no idea who Kennedy is.

Good size, quick, good hands and a beautiful kick.

Did any of the Coburg fans see the 80 metre torp he unleashed at Werribee on sunday?

He has been building up his endurance and I would expect him to cement a senior spot sooner rather than later.

Post is only 195cm and a twig. He would be destroyed long-term.

I don't rate him as big enough for KPP yet, much less a ruckman. You are correct, he would get squashed.

Beautiful mark. He needs some more muscle.

Can you give a quick summary for those who couldnt be bothered reading it?

Try dealing with him on a daily basis.

 

[TOOs_Finest]

I reckon if North have more total points than Richmond at the end of the game we will win.

In : Cunnington
Out : Ziebell

If only it were that simple. When the siren blew against the GC Suns, we had more points than them

 

[Dragonss]

Out: Batchelor(inj) McGuane Webberley Derickx Graham(all omit)
In: Martin Jackson Maric Post Astbury

B: Newman Rance Morris
HB: Houli Moore Dea
C: Grigg Martin Ellis
HF: Deledio Post Conca
F: Edwards Riewoldt Nahas
R: I.Maric Cotchin Tuck
INT: Astbury Jackson A.Maric
SUB: O'Hanlon

This is what I would like to see and it has changed up a bit from the first post I made in this thread. I like this lineup as it gives us flexibility with Astbury and Post being able to play both ends of the ground. Our midfield depth is also improved with the addition of Maric Martin & Jackson. I also think the best way for us to beat the Roos is to try and get them on the spread and I just don't think that McGuane Derickx and Graham are able to help in that style of play.

Really? Astbury? After 1 shit game, then an above average game warrants a selection? Plus I don't think he's got the match fitness and consistency to keep up with the gameplan of spreading. UNLESS he's used as the sub, since he's basically a swingman with his ability to play forward and back. Personally i'd like him to be in the forward line because when he's done a knee and has been out for a long time the strength might not be there and also that can also affect disposal.
Good line-up though, definitely in with a chance.
If Petrie and Adams do play it could be a plus because they'd be playing through some sort of pain which will hinder their performance.
Damn I miss Vickery 2011.