Changes V Richmond

[Partridge]

I tend to agree with this post from MmkMrMackie. There is often too much personal criticism - I know it's only one's opinion, but often it is simple dislike of a player regardless of their actual contribution.
(By the way what is the origin of your user-name?)

I'll throw my weight into these little arguments if I may.

Firstly, we should never - and I mean NEVER - consider "resting" players, no matter who our opponents are. I sometimes wonder about some of our supporters. How many times have we dropped games to crap opposition that we shouldn't? Far, far, FAR too often. Round 3 against Hawthorn last year for example. Simply too many times in our history. We finally have a strong, committed team that is winning every week, and now people are suggesting resting players and if we lose no big deal??? Madness.

If we make changes, they as always should be mandatory ones. Chapman must come in if fit, and it looks like King might get a spot for Blake. But nothing else.

Regarding Mooney, there's a very good reason why he has to stay in the side - he is our only key forward providing any value. The various journalists and media commentators keep saying "Geelong don't seem to have any weaknesses". I disagree. Our 2nd key forward right now is a weakness. We haven't got anything out of either Nathan Ablett or Hawkins for probably 6-8 weeks. And there aren't any plausible backups as Gardiner and Playfair aren't up to senior standard. So Mooney absolutely cannot be rested in any circumstances.

Regarding the Varcoe v Byrnes argument - right now Byrnes is a superior senior footballer to Varcoe. Fact. He actually gets the ball, and he lays just as many tackles as Varcoe does. I really think some people get blinded by hype and expectation. Varcoe played some good games, but he was not getting the ball in his last 2 matches at all. That's not good enough. Byrnes does have disposal errors, and if there was a better option I'd suggest it (like Chapman this week), but he gives more to the side than Varcoe.

Finally, as my rant concludes, Nathan Ablett must be selected ahead of Hawkins. Neither has done much for a while, but Ablett is waaaaay fitter and more mobile. Hawkins simply needs to get his fitness up. Quite honestly I'd be surprised if Hawkins played another game this year. And to clear up any misunderstandings, even if Ablett and Hawkins were providing nothing, I'd still pick them both ahead of Gardiner or Playfair. And next year I'd pick Grima ahead of them too.

Changes for Richmond - Chapman in, Byrnes (I guess) out. And maybe King for Blake. That is it. And we have to win this game. No thoughts about being 2 games clear. To establish us as a force you have to display a cold, relentless killer instinct. And to do that, you put away the sides you should. Our aim should and must be to annihilate Richmond again. That is the only goal.

 

[DanA]

OMG. Open your freaking eyes. Such one eyed crap. Yes, Varcoe can get off a decent quick look away handpass (i mean throw) every now and again, but these have a massive chance of going straight to the opposition or to nobody at all. As for his kicking, he can't kick on the run, and if he's having a shot from further than 30m, he usually wont make the distance. He is tiny in stature... He gets to his man, but gets brushed off as many times as he lays an effective tackle. Stats have already been supplied indicating that Byrnes gets more tackles per game and by a fair margin. As Varcoe gets older and gets more experience, he should improve... unless of course he gets stuck with a 'shit kick for life' tag like Byrnes....


I disagree. SJohnson provides the x-factor. Varcoe just sits in the pocket and doesn't get any touches.

Should he get a game just because his name is Ablett? We should be rewarding our VFL listed players for their good form. As much as you don't like the idea, Gardiner has been playing good football and deserves his shot at the VFL as much as the next guy. Whether he will get another chance or not is anyone's guess. Nathan Ablett, however, has not been performing - plain and simple. If he is carrying an injury then he should rest... Although we can afford to carry a few, why run him into the ground if we don't have to? If he's suffering from motivational issues, they should be sorted out. If he is just down on confidence, then he would regain it in the VFL.

Here are some telling stats:
Byrnes
Career stats: 38 games, 15 goals, 33 behinds, averaging 13.1 possessions
Varcoe
Career stats: 13 games 14 goals 5 behinds, averaging 7.7 possessions

Without having the stats, I'd guess that Varcoe is in the top 5 guys at Geelong for effective possesions compared to Byrnes who I suspect is dead last. You want to know why people love Varcoe and hate Byrnes. It is because when Varcoe finishes, Byrnes doesn't.

Regarding Gardiner vs Nathan Ablett
Charlie Gardiner
Career stats:
51 games 4.2 marks, 25 goals & averaging 9.9 possessions
Nathan Ablett
24 games, 3.8 marks, 34 goals & averaging 8.7 possessions

Again without having the stats in front of me I would guess that Nathan Ablett is in the top 10 in the team for effective disposals, very clean below his knee and excellent decision maker. Compared that to Gardiner who I would put in the bottom 5 at the club for effective possessions and the clubs No.1 in fumbles and poor decision making.

So what does that tell you. Cats fan are very hard on those that frequently stuff up and heap praise on those that rarely do.

 

[Rustybugles]

"Our 2nd key forward right now is a weakness. We haven't got anything out of either Nathan Ablett or Hawkins for probably 6-8 weeks. And there aren't any plausible backups as Gardiner and Playfair aren't up to senior standard. So Mooney absolutely cannot be rested in any circumstances."

"Compared that to Gardiner who I would put in the bottom 5 at the club for effective possessions and the clubs No.1 in fumbles and poor decision making."

I would be nervous if Charlie were to replace Nathan A. (perhaps Bomber has got over his favoured players stint and we won't see Charlie again) but I don't think Tom H can see out a full game and so resting Mooney might not be wise.
"Regarding the Varcoe v Byrnes argument - right now Byrnes is a superior senior footballer to Varcoe. Fact. He actually gets the ball, and he lays just as many tackles as Varcoe does. I really think some people get blinded by hype and expectation. Varcoe played some good games, but he was not getting the ball in his last 2 matches at all. That's not good enough. Byrnes does have disposal errors, and if there was a better option I'd suggest it (like Chapman this week), but he gives more to the side than Varcoe.'
I think this is Prismall32's point.
We'd all like to see Chappy back - he brings real grit to the side.

 

[gnoleeg]

Firstly, we should never - and I mean NEVER - consider "resting" players, no matter who our opponents are. I sometimes wonder about some of our supporters. How many times have we dropped games to crap opposition that we shouldn't? Far, far, FAR too often. Round 3 against Hawthorn last year for example. Simply too many times in our history. We finally have a strong, committed team that is winning every week, and now people are suggesting resting players and if we lose no big deal??? Madness.

And we have to win this game. No thoughts about being 2 games clear. To establish us as a force you have to display a cold, relentless killer instinct. And to do that, you put away the sides you should. Our aim should and must be to annihilate Richmond again. That is the only goal.

Absolutely agree. One of the strengths of this side is its consistency. In a number of interviews the players have stressed that the stable playing group has a lot to do with their success. To mess with this for no reason than 'just because' is a stupid idea - leave the team alone unless absolutely necessary.

 

[catempire]

Chapman to have another week off. Absolutely no need to risk him against 16th place on the ladder. Looks to be an injury he's carried for a while so it's best to play it on the safe side. He needs to be 100% when it counts.

I reckon Mackie might miss too with his shin. My choice to replace him would be Callan but I don't hold much hope that he has any favour with the selectors at the moment. The other in line would be Tenace but I dare not start another discussion about the merits of that.

King will be in the mix to come in. Again, a game against the 16th placed side is not a bad time to try this. Give Ottens more time forward to ease the burden on Mooney and give King one last chance to make a tilt at the team for the finals. If he gets up and going he can be a valuable contributor (I won't be holding my breath though).

 

[finrod]

So it looks like...
IN: Callan, Gardiner , King
OUT: Mackie, NAblett, Blake

 

[sarah.13]

Finrod,your'e supposed to be stirring opposition supporters.

 

[SaccaGents]

Resting players is a ridiculous idea. People assume players will rest easy when they line in the VFL and risk a chance of injury on crappy grounds.

The only change to make provided there are no injuries is Chappy in for Byrnes. D Johnson deserves his place in the side while Byrnes hasnt been a disgrace either.

Some comments on other suggestions.

Varcoe needs another year of preseason and muscle building. Does not get enough of the ball and his kicking penetration matches his tiny stature, rarely kicking it more than 30-40 metres. Runs down opponents down from behind but cannot hold onto tackles in the clinches.

Nablett admittedly is struggling and will benefit from another preseason. Unfortunately I dont see a ready replacement. Tomahawk simply is not fit enough and will not line up in the seniors again this year. Gardiner is a liability. Falls over, poor decision making, poor skills and turns the ball over way too much. Should be relegated to the Banambra reserves. He can take his mate Henry Playfair while hes at it.

Other than that - Go Cats!

 

[catempire]

Resting players is a ridiculous idea. People assume players will rest easy when they line in the VFL and risk a chance of injury on crappy grounds.

Anyone rested will have the week off, not play VFL.

 

[Copernicus]

On the money as usual, Partridge.

Resting players has no currency with me unless they are actually injured. It makes no sense at all to me to give players a week off and lose match fitness and form. Keep 'em in there.

Anyway, yeah, Byrnes for Chapman is probably gonna be it for me. How is Mackie's ankle injury? I haven't anything about that and don't how whether it was anything to warrant time off.

 

[sarah.13]

On the money as usual, Partridge.

Resting players has no currency with me unless they are actually injured. It makes no sense at all to me to give players a week off and lose match fitness and form. Keep 'em in there.

Anyway, yeah, Byrnes for Chapman is probably gonna be it for me. How is Mackie's ankle injury? I haven't anything about that and don't how whether it was anything to warrant time off.

Bruised shin should be right to play.

 

[CF]

Bruised shin should be right to play.

Bomber was adamant that mackie was ok and would be back next week in the Freo post match interview on Fox.

 

[rizzo]

One change:

Champan in, Brynes out

On that note, Varcoe is streets ahead of byrnes. Id much rather 7 effective disposals then 13 ineffective.

 

[catempire]

Is no one else concerned with rushing back Chapman?

 

[sarah.13]

Is no one else concerned with rushing back Chapman?

Only needs to play a 1/2 against this mob.
I'm sure his not playing against Freo was more to do with the plane trip and the tightening up of his lower back. I think he's been carrying it all year.

 

[catempire]

I think he's been carrying it all year.

All the more reason to give it another week.

 

[Ling Sting]

One change:

Champan in, Brynes out

On that note, Varcoe is streets ahead of byrnes. Id much rather 7 effective disposals then 13 ineffective.

the nail has just been hit on the head.

I've said it before and I'll say it again. Byrnes' skills and decision making are abhorent.

If Byrnes is playing in the finals ahead of Varcoe I'll be deeply worried. He's mistakes aren't hurting us now but there will be a time in the very near future that they will hurt us. ATM he is clearly the weakest link in the squad.

 

[Partridge]

Is no one else concerned with rushing back Chapman?

Depends. If he's fit he should play. If he's not he shouldn't.

He's a senior player, we shouldn't keep him in cotton wool. If it isn't a serious injury and he's ready to go he should play.

Take out Byrnes and Blake, and put in Chapman and King. Two even bigger physiques against a young and inexperienced side. Can only make us stronger.

 

[linelefty]

Depends. If he's fit he should play. If he's not he shouldn't.

He's a senior player, we shouldn't keep him in cotton wool. If it isn't a serious injury and he's ready to go he should play.

Take out Byrnes and Blake, and put in Chapman and King. Two even bigger physiques against a young and inexperienced side. Can only make us stronger.

Agreed, Get all the big bodies in there this week. Bash and Crash. Kingy could really contribute with some intimidation this week against........who the bloody hell rucks for richmond these days anyway? Pattison? Oakley-Nichols?

Actually, maybe we should leave blake in there to practice some bashing and crashing against those lettuce leaves.

 

[finrod]

One change:

Champan in, Brynes out

On that note, Varcoe is streets ahead of byrnes. Id much rather 7 effective disposals then 13 ineffective.

You're talking twang Rizzo!! Sure maybe 3 or 4 of Byrnes' disposals might be innefective, but he would still average more effective disposals than Varcoe.

 

[Rustybugles]

You're talking twang Rizzo!! Sure maybe 3 or 4 of Byrnes' disposals might be innefective, but he would still average more effective disposals than Varcoe.

You are right Finrod but by popular demand you will be publicly whipped for posting this.

 

[finrod]

You are right Finrod but by popular demand you will be publicly whipped for posting this.

Going from past posts, not just whipped, but beaten, tortured and burned at the stake

 

[DanA]

Is 3-4 ineffective possessions really acceptable for a player that has a low contested possession rate?

 

[cellis84]

simple really, ******* byrnes is a complete nuff nuff, id rather have ben finnin in the side! haha. get travvy v back asap, good 2 c kingy is ready 2 go if mark "matchwinner" blake or the big sea otter go down. i found it amusing 2 c sum1 thinking kingy wld add sum physical presence! wtf? thats his bloody problem, some1 needs 2 give him sum angry pills and he might fire up 4 once in a while.

give chappy another wk just 2 b safe. out byrnes, in varcoe

 

[finrod]

give chappy another wk just 2 b safe. out byrnes, in varcoe