Unofficial Preview Changes v St. Kilda (after the bye)

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Miz23

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Out: Archie, Rayner

In: Big O, Keays

Would also love for Hinge to get another game and for Wooler or Joyce to make their debut but not really sure on who to drop for that to happen. Robertson has played alright the last two games so no point to drop him. Although Allison didn't do much I still think he can be helpful for the team.
 

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bungalow_bill

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This off season we need to chain Cam Rayner to Nick Robertson and/or Jarrod Berry and have them drag him around churning laps out.

He'll come back with Brad Hill type running ability;).
Didn't Matho do this in his second pre season,ie train with N Robbo?
 

royboys4eva

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I was happy for Mathieson to come back into side when Berry got injured but I really struggle to see how we can play both him and Lyons in same team. Both play same role and both very slow when breaking from contests or when expected to defensive run.

Lyons much better player at this stage. We really need a lot more outside run. Not sure is Cutler currently injured? We really need him on the outside and even Allison pinch hitting off the bench for periods.
 

bungalow_bill

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Do people remember Walker playing forward? I get you find Hipwood and McStay frustrating but we really don't have better options. We need Big O back in the team mostly I think.

Honestly McStay has easily been our most consistent forward the last 6 weeks.
If Walker was any good as a forward Fagen would have him there. Walker plays best as a loose intercepting defender but we already have the best in the game back there
 

Samiam_98

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Bailey is expected to be cleared after the bye
 

davemc_lions

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If Walker was any good as a forward Fagen would have him there. Walker plays best as a loose intercepting defender but we already have the best in the game back there
I look at Walker was third in line behind McStay/Hipwood last year. He was not getting a game last year dropped after round 4. Came back round 14 as McStay injured
went down back after Andrews was sniped by Cameron and kept his spot for the season.
We used him as a swingman mostly forward.. He went back only when Andrews was out.

I also think Walker plays better when Andrews not there. They seems to play the same role. Andrews is way ahead of him in that role.
So forward ruck might work.
 

bungalow_bill

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God the **** said about Rayner on here is unbearable. Fair enough critique him on on things he needs to improve on but keep **** like "he has brick hands, is overweight, playing him is like playing a man down" etc out of this board. We're literally a group of adults talking about a 19 year old kid. It's honestly embarassing.
Agreed constructive criticism is fine I'm okay with that. But we're supposed to be supporters. Leave those sorts of comments to the opposition fans.
 

jackess

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I look at Walker was third in line behind McStay/Hipwood last year. He was not getting a game last year dropped after round 4. Came back round 14 as McStay injured
went down back after Andrews was sniped by Cameron and kept his spot for the season.
We used him as a swingman mostly forward.. He went back only when Andrews was out.
I think Walker kicked something like 7 goals in his last 14 games as a forward. If he hadn't played well down back his career probably would've been over
 

bungalow_bill

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Even Dow, Brayshaw and Cerra have been pretty poor this year as well. We just have to remember that it’s not always a linear progression for these kids.

Actually I remember seeing calls for Stephenson to be dropped on the Carlton board as well.
Yeah few weeks back Freo fans were calling for Cerra to be dropped as well. Second year blues
 

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bungalow_bill

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Is this based off their junior seasons? Can't be off the footy they've played at AFL level.
Based off junior level and glimpses seen at AFL level. Remember one game last year Rayner bossing his way through the middle Dustin Martin style. Will be a game breaker..
 

Samiam_98

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Has Keys played wing?,if so is he any good at providing outside run?
 

davemc_lions

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I think Walker kicked something like 7 goals in his last 14 games as a forward. If he hadn't played well down back his career probably would've been over
Do not disagree hard to be backup. Martin, Oscar and Archie 9 goals this year between them
 

jason pm

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Has Keys played wing?,if so is he any good at providing outside run?
IMO Keays needs to be played in the position he has been outstanding in in the NEAFL this season ie. pressure forward. In his game last week he was played further up the ground with stints up forward.
 

jonnobackpocket

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God the **** said about Rayner on here is unbearable. Fair enough critique him on on things he needs to improve on but keep **** like "he has brick hands, is overweight, playing him is like playing a man down" etc out of this board. We're literally a group of adults talking about a 19 year old kid. It's honestly embarassing.
You know this is the exact place where players flaws will be discussed don’t you.
 

iBeng

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Wooller in for Rayner, Oscar in for Archie, and could drop the likes of McCarthy, maybe Matho for someone else to get a shot. T Berry or C Lyons perhaps?
 

Gibbo_88

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12 games in and Rayner doesn't seem to be running out games any better. He should have built enough fitness by playing every week so it's a bit disappointing that he hasn't really caught up on his fitness despite it being acknowledged as not being good in the pre-season. He did play well last week but that's the only 1 over the last month.
 

jackess

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Given that he's 5 years younger is Rayner that far behind Cameron?
 

McLuggages

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Anyone but Rayner, McCarthy, Smith, Mathieson all just horrible today and as for Rayner and to a lesser extent McCarthy, they've had ample opportunity and frankly not up to it.

If Rayner was on the trade table, we'd be lucky to get a second rounder (and that's only on potential), but really, he'd be worth no more than a pick in the 50's, simply not up to the rigours of AFL footy; yet. Again saw him blow up more than usual after one chase, forget about repeat chases.
Atrocious comment.
Rayner looks to be of the same ilk of number 1s who don’t live up to expectations. Facts are he needs a drastic off season where he works solely on his fitness. I’d argue that Walsh has played and influenced more games in his first 12 then Rayner has in his 34 thus far . Only thing is that the rest of that draft class Isn’t setting the world on fire . I think In time Bailey and starce will go past him as players. Rayner is on 500 k next year are we paying his 5k per touch he gets ? Fagan had chance to drop him
And set tone weeks ago but missed it as far as I’m concerned it was a poor decision . As for smith should never been anywhere near an afl oval
Again he is the worst . How we could be so wrong is beyond me .
A bit late to the discussion but far too many harsh comments about Rayner in this thread.

Leave the kid alone and let him develop at his own pace. From memory De Goey did nothing for 3 years then looked like a gun in year 4.

Remember Darcy Gardiner? I thought he was a spud for his first 3 years then last year he almost became my favourite player.

Not fair to compare him to Walsh either. Carlton got lucky having pick 1 in a super draft, whilst rayners was a weak draft unfortunately. You can't question rayners attitude because Walsh is a more gifted athlete (and maybe footballer?).

Everyone needs to take a deep breath - our club is the best spot it's been for a decade. The players clearly care and love the club, and the coach, and each other. We're up to the brim with talent and we don't want to start throwing comments around like Rayner is worth a pick in the 50s? Not sure it's constructive (or true) or relevant.
 

lions27

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I’d be giving Rayner another go fresh after the bye.
Not sure we have people banging down the door in that position.
 

McLuggages

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That said - agree Rayner needs a week in the twos for wooler or keayes. Just let Rayner go and give his best, and enjoy the journey. Don't turn on the kid.
 

jason pm

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I’d be giving Rayner another go fresh after the bye.
Not sure we have people banging down the door in that position.
Toby Wooller has been very good in the NEAFL but as we know it's a huge step up to seniors particularly when we have been winning by 10+ goals in the NEAFL every week.

Ben Keays would be the other one, not a similar player but puts on lots of pressure if played in the F50.
 

martinson

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Interesting question. Charlie wasn't a No.1 pick ,that's a curse you have to carry with you.

He's too hard to assess at present because he's been in the poor to fair range all year....I don't think his form has been anywhere near what some people claim ,19 years old and all.

I think we need a couple more pre seasons before passing judgement . He was clunking a few marks last year and can't take one to save himself this year , probably just second year blues and his physical makeup which is more of the footballer type build than the athletic types who seem to feature high in the draft these days. Could just take a lot more work . Plus the only position he can currently play to get a game is a tough one.

He does have a real passion for a contest and that's a big plus
 
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