Unofficial Preview Changes v St. Kilda (after the bye)

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knaf

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From the bits of reserves games I’ve seen tom Berry looks very quick and a natural footballer and Toby Wooler looks to have a big tank (spends time in midfield) and is solid overhead (plays as a key position). Both might be worth a look.

Smith/OMac is an obvious change.

yesterday we had 7 defenders who are sole use defenders. Andrews, gardiner, Robertson, hodge, Rich, answerth, witherden. I don’t think that is sustainable. Andrews, gardiner, Robertson have specific defensive roles. Answerth showing a bit, but I’m concerned that rich/hodge/witherden are all low run players as our mid sized defenders.
To me the Hodge on field general lessons (should) have been learnt and he is the one that should be dropped for better balance on field. He doesn’t play on taller opponents anymore, he has lost a lot of agility and often kicks off the ground because he can’t get down to pick the ball up and he can be exposed for lack of pace. IMO his physical limitations outweigh his footy smarts in his personal play and now is as good a time as any to see if the boys can organise the defence without him.

Out: Rayner, Smith, McCarthy, hodge

In: wooler, OMac, Bastinac, Berry

Feel that basti would be a bit more flexible than Mccarthy pushing through midfield. Wooler potentially better over head and more run than Rayner at this point as a mid sized flanker. OMac better as a third tall forward.

Basti, Robinson, Berry, Allison to rotate through backline.
Thanks John. Nice to see some additional analysis particularly on the backline set up. Hodge has been important in close finishes against stronger sides. Unfortunately his lack of pace is exposed when we are beaten at the contest by a quicker team. Line ball wether or not he stays in the team. I am enjoying watching him in a Lions jumper. Fagan appears to be looking at Robertson to develop into a mobile third defender. He did a good job on Saturday in the role. I support this approach against a return to Walker who is much slower, has less running capacity and not really a better ball user. His marking and spoiling were Ok. Having said that I admire the fact that Walker has got the best out of himself and if Andrews is injured he is clearly first in line to replace him.
 

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mpal6

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What will happen
Out : Smith, Allison
In: OMac, Walker

What needs to happen and if by some miracle the MC will even lift an eyebrow towards that forward line...

Out: Smith, McCarthy, Rayner
In: OMac, Wooler, Keays
 

Clarkythelion

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Finally calmed down enough to make a comment any where about our team.

I'm not one for making changes for change sake I'd rather changes because we have someone ready whom by all probability will do a better job. I think right now we have some young forwards that have not learned their craft getting delivery from a winning mid field so their leading patters are not suited, we still have too much waiting for the one over the back. I also think we have a good midfield not delivering well to forwards that don't lead to them enough and go sideways starting a loop to run for the one over the back. We need to persist which what we have and only tinker. I think we all agree now the Rayner situation needs addressing in some form. I'm for something a little radical and move him to a back pocket to line up on another mid to small forward, no a super quick one but give him some perspective looking from the other end. Big O went ok in reserves and his tap work is superior, he has to come back in even if he was dropped for some other reason. Maybe Archie for Martin next year. Wooller for me comes into the forward line. McCarthy is on notice but I think he is ok he is still chasing and I think young Keays does not have a higher top end (sorry Keays). Berry if fit, walks in and unfortunately its Alison who steps out. So without the medical report.

Smith out for Big O
Alison (unlucky) out for Berry
Wooler comes in Taylor out (sorry Lui very unlucky )

AND somewhere during the break a new assistant coach is added - lets call the the "Transition from mid field to forwards coach" While I'm positive the running patters of Brown, Bradshaw, Lynch were recorded and are being used I think a real live ex key position forward would help. Browny seems too Melbourne based but has the intelligence to be of real value so someone else. Roughead next year for sure.
 

bungalow_bill

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I'm not one to whine generally re in's and out's although sometimes I disagree or I'm disappointed. But if Archie isn't omitted I may whine a little.
 

spotthedog1

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Archie Smith is out. He was a liability on the field. The free kick that he gave away near the interchange was the sort of ill-discipline that must be punished.
I was sorting out a few things at the time so wasn't 100% on the football, but saw a replay of that, and didn't understand why a free kick was paid. From my position, it looked like the ball went out and Archie gave him a shove in the side on his way to the bench. Did I miss something while I wasn't paying attention, or was it just for the shove?
 

Hornet1

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It will be interesting to see who goes back to the twos after the coaches review the game. I would presume Archie and Allison would be worried, so would Rayner, McCarthy and Robertson. We have Big O and probably a Christensen/Lester/Bastinac type who are dominating in the twos and ready to go. Obviously walker has played well down back and Wooller/Lyons Jnr are two I’m hopeful of seeing in the ones at some stage this year. Keays didn’t play in the neafl so he may have been injured not omitted as well, so we have depth to keep shuffling our line up.

I guess it depends if they decide if it was effort or ability that let our midfield down. Momentum is everything in football and they had it and only got up by 15pts. So I personally don’t think it’s embarrassing. It’s disappointing absolutely, but the AFL is too even across the board to be embarrassed by a loss.

I do find the comments on players after a loss the most embarrassing thing I’ve come across so far this year. I’ve never met a more passionate supporter than myself but posting online while I’m angry with a personal attack is not okay. These lads put in the hard yards everyday. Unless you have matched that effort. Keep your ****ty abuse to yourself.

Self belief can make or break a player and we want all our players to succeed!!!
 

Lazza16

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Was at the game n thought Allison was more hungry for the ball than a lot of his team mates so would keep in. Keays work ethic would have been handy so would include him against the saints. Matho not great but would persist. Harris on one leg n Zorko n Charlie carrying something will love the break. Everytime Harris went off I just felt it is goal time for them so I think it is essential either Eagles/Walker or Ballenden come in. Taylor bit off as well but obvious we need pace pace pace. Witherden just not up to it physically....cant chase cant win own ball. Forward line did nothing ....just stood there with ball entering...no system
Out ...Smith Rayner Witho Adcock
IN ....Big O Keays Eagles (Basti great in the 2s and could replace beast or McCarthy but undecided)
 
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cotter101

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In: Walker, Keays, Lester.

Out: Rayner, Matho, Smith.

Gardiner Walker Hodge
Witherden Andrews Rich

McCluggage Neale Allison

Keays McStay McCarthy
Cameron Hipwood Lester

Foll: Martin, Zorko, Lyons

Int: Taylor, Answerth, Robertson, Robinson

Think Lester can attribute to the team as a third tall style forward that can rotate into the centre as a contested ball winner.

Keays I thought was unlucky to be dropped and takes Rayners place in the side who desperately needs to regain some touch. Hopefully enjoys a rest and is back in no time.

Walker to come back in to spend time all over the ground.
 

Comeback Lions

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A few people calling for Tom Berry to play seniors, but I think he needs to get more of the ball at NEAFL level first. Yes stats aren't everything, but in sides having big wins, his last 4 games:
v Gold Coast 10 disposals, 5 kicks, 5 hbs, 10 tackles
v Sydney 21 disposals, 9k, 12 hb, 5t
v Giants 14 disposals, 7k, 7hb, 5 tackles
V Canberra 10 disposals, 4k, 6hb, 7 tackles.
His tackle count is the most impressive, but we need mids who can win contested possessions and Corey Lyons and Tom Joyce are clearly ahead of him at the moment, as well as Bastinac and Christensen, who admittedly fall into different categories as senior players. No need to rush Tom Berry in, give him time to develop. If you're not racking up big numbers consistently in the twos, you're not going to do it in the ones.
 

buttermuffs

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I was sorting out a few things at the time so wasn't 100% on the football, but saw a replay of that, and didn't understand why a free kick was paid. From my position, it looked like the ball went out and Archie gave him a shove in the side on his way to the bench. Did I miss something while I wasn't paying attention, or was it just for the shove?
It was only for the shove but it’s a very typical and correct free kick. Sure, it wasn’t like anyone was injured or murdered, but if it’s let go, suddenly players think ‘hey, I can get away with smashing people over outside of play’. From there, it can escalate quickly. It starts with a bump, but then players get frustrated and hit back, and it all goes to ****.


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buttermuffs

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A few people calling for Tom Berry to play seniors, but I think he needs to get more of the ball at NEAFL level first. Yes stats aren't everything, but in sides having big wins, his last 4 games:
v Gold Coast 10 disposals, 5 kicks, 5 hbs, 10 tackles
v Sydney 21 disposals, 9k, 12 hb, 5t
v Giants 14 disposals, 7k, 7hb, 5 tackles
V Canberra 10 disposals, 4k, 6hb, 7 tackles.
His tackle count is the most impressive, but we need mids who can win contested possessions and Corey Lyons and Tom Joyce are clearly ahead of him at the moment, as well as Bastinac and Christensen, who admittedly fall into different categories as senior players. No need to rush Tom Berry in, give him time to develop. If you're not racking up big numbers consistently in the twos, you're not going to do it in the ones.
That makes sense. However, I’m of the opinion that we could probably afford to see how he goes, especially if Berry Sr. comes back. Berry seems like a great player who tackles a lot and provides pressure. I feel like he would be like Zorko in that regard. I feel like he’d be able to find the ball at an improved level after settling in. Then again, if he’s not selected I’m not going to be mad, because like you said the stats don’t support that he’s completely ready yet.


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davemc_lions

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from what I watched T Berry seems to play 50% in forward line each week which drop the stats down a bit.
Although agree Joyce and C Lyons been good.
 

lioninthesand

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We both said he shouldn’t have been dropped. Had a good game and bang; dropped. Rayner has probably had one better game than Keays’ game all year and not dropped once.

Walker’s omission still baffles me.
How did Keays have a 'good game'? seems like you are just seeing what you want to see to feed your 'selection' obsession either than or are just happy to throw out mis-truths.

He over ran 2-3 crucial balls, fumbled a few times, missed and unmissable goal by not handballing over the top to charlie and or having an opposite side of his body and absolutely shanked a set shot. Plus had 5 tackles, which was good, but hardly an outstanding pressure game if that's what you are there to do. Now I wouldn't have minded he get another run, I liked his attitude and effort but to casually suggest he had a good game to push your narrative needs to be pulled up.
 

lioninthesand

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I think Archie is simply being given a few development games. Which hurts because he was costly on the weekend. But we need to know what we haave post Martin and giving him a run in the seniors is the only way to find out. Big O was chosen to sit out coming off a sore shoulder, maybe the NEAFl run was just to keep his legs ticking over, I would expect to see him in for the saints game. Don't think anyone should assume he is playing over Oscar because he is the preferred option.

For me I'd go..

Rayner out for who ever - something needs to change here and maybe a little reset is what he needs, get his hunger up, not take senior footy for granted, get soe ball in hand

Smith for Oscar

Allison for Cutler, didn't like his game at all, that chasing tackling effort on Cripps when he eventually steps around rich too was not a good look
 

Tom14

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I think Archie is simply being given a few development games. Which hurts because he was costly on the weekend. But we need to know what we haave post Martin and giving him a run in the seniors is the only way to find out. Big O was chosen to sit out coming off a sore shoulder, maybe the NEAFl run was just to keep his legs ticking over, I would expect to see him in for the saints game. Don't think anyone should assume he is playing over Oscar because he is the preferred option.

For me I'd go..

Rayner out for who ever - something needs to change here and maybe a little reset is what he needs, get his hunger up, not take senior footy for granted, get soe ball in hand

Smith for Oscar

Allison for Cutler, didn't like his game at all, that chasing tackling effort on Cripps when he eventually steps around rich too was not a good look
Cutler was in a moonboot last week. We'll have to wait for an injury report but I can't see him playing against the saints.

The other wing position opposite Clug is a problem for us atm. No one has really put a good claim in for it to be their spot.
 

trikster

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Saints might have some interesting ins (via Sam McClure):
- Jack Steven returned and trained for the first time in 2 months
- Jake Carlisle trained strongly and set to play in the VFL this week
- The club will give Dan Hannebery and Max King 1 more game in the VFL with the view to debuting them both v Bris Rd 14.
 

jackess

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Saints might have some interesting ins (via Sam McClure):
- Jack Steven returned and trained for the first time in 2 months
- Jake Carlisle trained strongly and set to play in the VFL this week
- The club will give Dan Hannebery and Max King 1 more game in the VFL with the view to debuting them both v Bris Rd 14.
Great news.... for the Saints
 

Viceregal

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I think I might need to mark down the date and the time for it seems that the whole of the Lion's Board is united on something ... the lid offs, the lid soldered shuts, the clique, the anti-clique, the non-clique, the dissident-clique, the pessimists, the optimists, the Fagan can do no wrongers, the Fagan can't coach for xxxxers, the ones with faith in the match committee and the ones with no faith at all, the mega posters, the occasional posters, the ones who only post when things are going badly and the ones who only post the rainbows, the Scrooges, the Pollyannas, and every flavour in between ...

Sadly the thing that seems to have united us is that one A. Smith should not be in the team next game.
 

DERRINALPHIL

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It appears that the one thing that all Lions fans can agree on is that the two ruckmen set up isn't working. Have a look at the review thread.

But I wonder if the problem isn't the rest of the forward rather than the resting ruckman. Cam R's confidence is now so shot he can't pick up the ball. McCarthy hasn't done anything (last two goal against Gold Coast) since the first two games and out two tall forwards are quite inconsistent.

One could make a case to drop Archie, Raynor and McCarthy, i.e. a half of our forward line and Fages doesn't do such things.

For me Archie and Raynor go, Walker and someone else comes in. I've stopped watching the Two's so I cannot make an informed decision on who comes in.

I would like to see McCarthy operating out of the goal square. Get Hipwood up the field. McStay has the role of being the kick up the line player
 
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I agree about Archie and Rayner going out. I would bring in Oscar and Walker or Lester, maybe both in which case Matho or Allison could drop out.

I would also like to see a few players moved position so they can make the most of their strengths:

1.Move Witho onto the wing where he can use his kicking skills inside 50 and maybe even snag a goal or two. He has been played in defence from his first game as an 18 year old and I think a more attacking role would be good for him and the team. He was drafted as an elite midfielder so maybe give him a licence to attack and see what he can do. Taking so much pressure in defence each week ,even taking the kickout duties is a lot to ask of a young player.

2. Move Nick Robbo onto the other wing where he can use his running power and aggression around the middle of the ground. He could also play a defensive role on the opposition wingman and get back to help the defence with his elite running, one of his major strengths.

3. Move Mitch Robbo into the forward line in Rayner's spot. Could apply much more forward pressure and grunt and he can kick goals too. Would give the forward line a much more aggressive feel to it and would take some of the pressure off Cameron who has to do the bulk of the forward pressure at the moment.

4. Move Clugga into a pure midfield position rather than starting on a wing. With the new rules giving more time for the midfielders in the centre square I think he would be able to really use his skills in there and take some of the heat off Neale and co. He is now into his third year and should be physically strong enough to compete in there. He could also go forward when Mitch Robbo and McCarthy have a run in the midfield and could be quite a weapon in front of goal.

Watching the team on Saturday I just got the feeling that giving these players a fresh "change up" and releasing the shackles on them might be really beneficial, much as Carlton seemed to do. Just an idea anyway!
 

Tom14

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It appears that the one thing that all Lions fans can agree on is that the two ruckmen set up isn't working. Have a look at the review thread.

But I wonder if the problem isn't the rest of the forward rather than the resting ruckman. Cam R's confidence is now so shot he can't pick up the ball. McCarthy hasn't done anything (last two goal against Gold Coast) since the first two games and out two tall forwards are quite inconsistent.

One could make a case to drop Archie, Raynor and McCarthy, i.e. a half of our forward line and Fages doesn't do such things.

For me Archie and Raynor go, Walker and someone else comes in. I've stopped watching the Two's so I cannot make an informed decision on who comes in.

I would like to see McCarthy operating out of the goal square. Get Hipwood up the field. McStay has the role of being the kick up the line player
I don't know that I agree that the two ruck set up isn't working. I just don't think the two rucks can be Stef and Archie. Maybe Archie could turn into a decent player if he had a run as the number one ruck, but if Stef is in the team he can't do that and Stef is still a better player by some distance.

While Oscar isn't a high disposal player or a consistent forward I think he does enough in that area and his tap work is underrated.
 
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