Changes v St Kilda

[davey_magik]

In: Rivers (If fit for Chip) White Whelan Sylvia
Out: Jamar (omit) Frawley (If Rivers is fit) Davey (inj) Robbo (inj)

Davey has done a hammy and is out for 2-3, and Robbo has a corked thigh and won't play.

It will be good having Dutchy and Miller as the targets, it will allow Miller to play a bit deeper (Like he did against Freo).

 

[Bartram_Class]

In: Rivers (If fit for Chip) White Whelan Sylvia
Out: Jamar (omit) Frawley (If Rivers is fit) Davey (inj) Robbo (inj)

Davey has done a hammy and is out for 2-3, and Robbo has a corked thigh and won't play.

It will be good having Dutchy and Miller as the targets, it will allow Miller to play a bit deeper (Like he did against Freo).

I'd give Rivers as long as he needs to get back from his injury, no point rushing him back when the kids down back did so well last week.

Jamar for White is the only given in my mind.

I'd be promoting Yze or Chris Johnson ahead of Sylvia at the moment, they've earnt the right to a spot.

 

[CaptainDavey]

Davey hamstring? When did this happen?

 

[saj_21]

Davey hamstring? When did this happen?

Reported in this mornings herald sun, happened at training yesterday.

 

[melbourne150]

I don't know why (nearly)every one wants Jamar dropped he was much better than PJ on the weekend.

Every time Jamar went to the bench and PJ went into the ruck the monentum would swing Hawthorns way because PJ doesn't make a contest in the ruck, At least Jamar jumps into the opposition ruckman and makes it hard for them to get an effective hitout. PJ is pretty good around the ground but he barely even creates a contest in the ruck.

 

[McLean_4_Captain]

I don't know why (nearly)every one wants Jamar dropped he was much better than PJ on the weekend.

Every time Jamar went to the bench and PJ went into the ruck the monentum would swing Hawthorns way because PJ doesn't make a contest in the ruck, At least Jamar jumps into the opposition ruckman and makes it hard for them to get an effective hitout. PJ is pretty good around the ground but he barely even creates a contest in the ruck.

*cough* check my previous post about this. post #16 *cough*

 

[CaptainDavey]

Reported in this mornings herald sun, happened at training yesterday.

Goddamn damn god damn damn. Damn. That is a massive blow. Hopefully Sylvia can come in for Flash

 

[RandB]

but Johnson was woeful on sunday beside his goal. Jamar had 22 hitouts

You're wasting your time mate, they all hate Jamar. They prefer a ruckman who can't ruck but gets a few more possessions and does what we have 18 other players to do. I don't undervalue what PJ does around the ground but it is what he doesn't do that hurts us. No value on hitouts with these guys what so ever, even though that is the primary role of a ruckman. We nearly grabbed a great win over Hawthorn and Jamar's tap work was pretty handy for us on the weekend.

I also think it is worth waiting for the full Saints list to be put up before posting swaps purely based on last week. Bell could be dropped but that is what a few wanted regarding Bartram a month ago after one bad game. Bartram was kept in the team and played well the following week.

Rivers to play in defence.

 

[JuveRule]

It wouldn't surprise me if Johnson made way for White's return, but here's a stat for you in any case:

Percentage of hitouts to advantage (this year, prior to the Hawks game):
Johnson 33%
Jamar 21%
White 19%
AFL Ave. 22%

I'm not sure how they've changed since the weekend but really, it's all well and good being a presence at ruck contests but if your hitouts are falling into the hands of the opposition then you're not doing the team much good.

 

[CaptainDavey]

You're wasting your time mate, they all hate Jamar. They prefer a ruckman who can't ruck but gets a few more possessions and does what we have 18 other players to do. I don't undervalue what PJ does around the ground but it is what he doesn't do that hurts us. No value on hitouts with these guys what so ever, even though that is the primary role of a ruckman. We nearly grabbed a great win over Hawthorn and Jamar's tap work was pretty handy for us on the weekend.

So, the question being asked can be said...

Would you rather a player who can ruck but is horrible around the ground, or a player who can't ruck but is better around the ground. It's definitely a pickle but I'd go for PJ over Russian

 

[dee-boxed]

Can someone please tell me the status of John Meesen? Why havn't they giving him a go thus far?

 

[RandB]

It wouldn't surprise me if Johnson made way for White's return, but here's a stat for you in any case:

Percentage of hitouts to advantage (this year, prior to the Hawks game):
Johnson 33%
Jamar 21%
White 19%
AFL Ave. 22%

I'm not sure how they've changed since the weekend but really, it's all well and good being a presence at ruck contests but if your hitouts are falling into the hands of the opposition then you're not doing the team much good.

True, Jamar does some times find the opposition but I have noticed he often finds our forwards at throw ins at the pockets. Also at the centre he gets sharked a bit when his taps go to 50/50 situations. Our midfielders still have a bit of room for improvement there I think.

 

[CaptainDavey]

Can someone please tell me the status of John Meesen? Why havn't they giving him a go thus far?

Has been injured in recent times, and hasn't shown a great deal yet. That is as far as I know but I'm not really one to judge since I haven't seen a whole lot of Sandy games this year. However he's definitely a long term prospect and I think he'll be given a go at some stage this season as we don't really have a whole lot to play for other than pride. I'd love to see him get a game ASAP.

In relation to that, who did Adelaide pick up with the pick we gave them for Meese?

 

[RandB]

Has been injured in recent times, and hasn't shown a great deal yet. That is as far as I know but I'm not really one to judge since I haven't seen a whole lot of Sandy games this year. However he's definitely a long term prospect and I think he'll be given a go at some stage this season as we don't really have a whole lot to play for other than pride. I'd love to see him get a game ASAP.

In relation to that, who did Adelaide pick up with the pick we gave them for Meese?

Morton from Kangas wasn't it?

 

[RandB]

So, the question being asked can be said...

Would you rather a player who can ruck but is horrible around the ground, or a player who can't ruck but is better around the ground. It's definitely a pickle but I'd go for PJ over Russian

Personally I prefer Russian's tap work over PJ's possessions - the ruck comes first. We have a plethora of improving players who can rack up possies. I appreciate PJ's possies but if that is all he is about then that is not good enough. With all those hit-outs Jamar gets you have to think how many more would the opposition win if PJ was there. Hawthorn would have won much easier if it wasn't for Jamar's ruckwork. Also I doubt we would have beaten Freo if it was PJ rucking instead of Jamar. Either way it comes down to opinion and lets say neither are obvious candidates for AA.

 

[StingaArmstrong]

Morton from Kangas wasn't it?

Close. Brad Moran. Yet to play a game due to a broken hand i think.

 

[RandB]

Close. Brad Moran. Yet to play a game due to a broken hand i think.

Yep that's him.

 

[saj_21]

It wouldn't surprise me if Johnson made way for White's return, but here's a stat for you in any case:

Percentage of hitouts to advantage (this year, prior to the Hawks game):
Johnson 33%
Jamar 21%
White 19%
AFL Ave. 22%

I'm not sure how they've changed since the weekend but really, it's all well and good being a presence at ruck contests but if your hitouts are falling into the hands of the opposition then you're not doing the team much good.

Thats acutally a useful stat as opposed to everyone who goes on about jamar got 22 hit outs jamar got 30 hit outs, hit outs are uselse unless they are to advantage.

Jamar may be slightly better in the ruck than PJ (very debatable) but he is useless and pathetic around the ground and rarely gets more than 2 touches a 1/4. Johnson on the other hand provides a contest and works very hard round the grounds and gets a bit of the ball himself, he had 23 touches against Geelong before he broke his hand Jamar would struggle to have that total combined for all his games this year.

 

[McLean_4_Captain]

Thats acutally a useful stat as opposed to everyone who goes on about jamar got 22 hit outs jamar got 30 hit outs, hit outs are uselse unless they are to advantage.

Jamar may be slightly better in the ruck than PJ (very debatable) but he is useless and pathetic around the ground and rarely gets more than 2 touches a 1/4. Johnson on the other hand provides a contest and works very hard round the grounds and gets a bit of the ball himself, he had 23 touches against Geelong before he broke his hand Jamar would struggle to have that total combined for all his games this year.

Yes, but lets do some simple maths. 22 hitouts, with a season average of 21% to advantage. That equals 4.62, so 5, but it doesn't mean his other 17 hitouts went directly to hawthorn, just not directly to a melbourne player. PJ had 9 hitouts, 33%, 3 to advantage. Melbourne was killing it in the Clearances, Jamar was a big help in that.

PJ has worked hard around the ground, but not on the weekend. If you read my previous post, I pointed out that PJ only had 2 more touches then useless and pathetic Jamar, but Jamar had 6 tackles to PJs 1. Our tackling was a highlight on Sunday, Jamar stepped up, PJ did not.

This is by no means me flying the flag for the russian long term, but PJ didnt do enough around the ground to make up for his lack of hitouts. Yes i want PJ in the team ahead of Jamar most weeks, but not after the weekends performance, PJ shouldn't be gifted his spot. Jamar played better and i think the coaching staff will think the same and play him this week.

 

[saj_21]

Yes, but lets do some simple maths. 22 hitouts, with a season average of 21% to advantage. That equals 4.62, so 5, but it doesn't mean his other 17 hitouts went directly to hawthorn, just not directly to a melbourne player. PJ had 9 hitouts, 33%, 3 to advantage. Melbourne was killing it in the Clearances, Jamar was a big help in that.

PJ has worked hard around the ground, but not on the weekend. If you read my previous post, I pointed out that PJ only had 2 more touches then useless and pathetic Jamar, but Jamar had 6 tackles to PJs 1. Our tackling was a highlight on Sunday, Jamar stepped up, PJ did not.

This is by no means me flying the flag for the russian long term, but PJ didnt do enough around the ground to make up for his lack of hitouts. Yes i want PJ in the team ahead of Jamar most weeks, but not after the weekends performance, PJ shouldn't be gifted his spot. Jamar played better and i think the coaching staff will think the same and play him this week.

You cant base it all one game look at this years performances PJ is streaks ahead of jamar, thus he deserves selection.

 

[Number32]

I would also start to player rivers up forward...with garland, warnock and frawley started to mature and stefan martin waiting in the wings at sandy we dont really need rivers in the backline anymore

instead we need him up front because our forward stocks are down with neitz retiring and robbo getting on...who else do we have to take that FF spot...newton...hasnt shown that much this year even if he is carrying an injury...i said give it a shot

OUT: jamar (wasnt the worst on the weekend but his overall form this season is shocking, he is a list clogger), morton (give him a run at sandy), robbo (inj)

IN: sylvia, white, and either CJ or Whelan

 

[Number32]

sorry scrap the CJ or Whelan in, instead rivers haha

 

[McLean_4_Captain]

You cant base it all one game look at this years performances PJ is streaks ahead of jamar, thus he deserves selection.

Jamar was dropped from the squad quicker then a then a brad miller contested mark after 1 bad game against adelaide, after playing the game of his career against freo the week before. Thats selection based on 1 game.

Again, I think PJ should be in long term, but this week Jamar should play.

Yes you have to consider more then one week, but players are picked on the last few games, the most weight being on the last game played.

There are 2 main differences for each in this years averages, PJ has 5.9 more kicks a game and 3.3 more marks, Jamar has 1.7 more tackles and 9.1 more hitouts. 8.4 hitouts a game for PJ is just not enough, he needs another week rucking a whole game at Sandy, then bring him back the next week.

Fact is Jamar has more hitouts then any backup ruckman in the league (excluding Brogan as he and Lade effectively share the ruck work 50/50). Someone else stated that Jamar's hitouts to advantage were 21% with league ave of 22%.

You can't dispute the facts. Thus, Jamar should play this week, as PJ is not in good form but he'll be back soon.

 

[RandB]

You cant base it all one game look at this years performances PJ is streaks ahead of jamar, thus he deserves selection.

How do you come to that conclusion?

Jamar has been competent in the ruck every game he has played. The 1 possession against the Crows was obviously a disgrace but he has been ok in most other games around the ground. It would be nice if he could hang on to a few more marks up forward but then I don't know why they have him up forward anyway. Might as well rest him on the bench instead.

I am yet to hear anyone dispute my assertion that we would not have beaten Fremantle if PJ was rucking instead of Jamar.

 

[Headless]

I would also start to player rivers up forward...with garland, warnock and frawley started to mature and stefan martin waiting in the wings at sandy we dont really need rivers in the backline anymore

instead we need him up front because our forward stocks are down with neitz retiring and robbo getting on...who else do we have to take that FF spot...newton...hasnt shown that much this year even if he is carrying an injury...i said give it a shot

OUT: jamar (wasnt the worst on the weekend but his overall form this season is shocking, he is a list clogger), morton (give him a run at sandy), robbo (inj)

IN: sylvia, white, and either CJ or Whelan

Disagree. Rivers is our best defender and has been for a long time, he's proven that.

Garland, Warnock and Frawley have 32 games between them...