Changes v the suns

[Golden_6]

So Bev isn't taking Gold Coast seriously - again - how did that work out last yr?

Bev's selections appear to be about man management more than winning. On talent McLean is not behind Gowers and Porter. Not in a million yrs.

At least Dale is gone. Hope he and Hunter recover. Would prefer both to Gowers.

We will find out in a month whether Bevo's strategy has some merit, this season is a marathon not a sprint.

On the other hand if we continually drop games during the year to sides like the Blues, and potentially the Suns, this team is nothing more than your average footy team battling for an elimination finals spot.

 

[Mr. Walker]

I met Bevo a little while back. He said “ Hello” to me. After reading this thread I am now wondering what that was code for. Did he see me as the answer to the forward line problems? Did he want me to go away and work on my second efforts? Did he just want me to go away? A very deep and mysterious man our coach.

 

[Libba39]

So Bev isn't taking Gold Coast seriously - again - how did that work out last yr?

Bev's selections appear to be about man management more than winning. On talent McLean is not behind Gowers and Porter. Not in a million yrs.

At least Dale is gone. Hope he and Hunter recover. Would prefer both to Gowers.

Not that hard to see that Gowers replaces Dale in the structure. The only other player probably capable of the same role is Greene. Putting Porter ahead Maclean is another story. He's either not playing his role as requested or is on the way out.

 

[Glaeken Oracle]

I met Bevo a little while back. He said “ Hello” to me. After reading this thread I am now wondering what that was code for. Did he see me as the answer to the forward line problems? Did he want me to go away and work on my second efforts? Did he just want me to go away? A very deep and mysterious man our coach.

With Luke, it's all about the intonation.

 

[Norm De Guerre]

It’s pretty funny reading all of the melts about team selection and list management when there is even less information about what’s happening at training than usual. Get a grip.

 

[The Slitherin' Snake]

Would you back Gowers to kick more goals or give away more 50s tonight?

 

[Wizard17]

Porter is getting rewarded on his form this year. Simple as that.

He was tiny when he was drafted body wise so he was always going to take longer to develop considering he is an inside midfielder. Hoping the investment pays off.

 

[Glaeken Oracle]

 

[Braybrook Son]

1 player in because of injury and people here go mental. By all means blast him after the game but not before.

If you’re referring to Gowers, he’s an absolute hack and should never have been picked.

 

[Cudi]

Suprised Lloyd didn't come in for Dale

 

[Glaeken Oracle]

Hoping Gowers either spuds it up or kicks 5 and is BOG. Then at least 64% of posters on here will be happy either way. I know I will be - I think he’s a god-like spud. Go Billy G.

 

[DognBones]

Would you back Gowers to kick more goals or give away more 50s tonight?

In his 31 games he has 17 Frees For and 40 Frees Against. It would be interesting to measure, if such things were possible, what the downstream effects of those lopsided free numbers were.

 

[Dogs_R_Us]

Maybe we'll get another one of these

 

[Proffessor]

You can argue what you choose to, Proffessor. It doesn’t mean he’s being treated unfairly.

Who are the 7 current 22 who are playing McLeans role ahead of him? To me, your numbers don’t add up as we don’t have that many HF/Mids in the side.

Easy question to answer.
I think Toby's selection claims are stronger than the following players in tonight's team:
Lachie Young, Porter, Vandermeer, Lipinski, Gowers, Richards, and Weightman.

He might even have stronger selection claims than some players not included in the above list, e.g. Caleb Daniel.

His mistreatment at selection appears unrelated to his personal performance, if you don't consider that as being unfairly treated then I think we are using different standards.

McLean is a solid and versatile player who played an important role in our 2016 premiership and in 2018 was one of our key midfielders. Unlike too many players currently in our side he also is capable of taking contested marks and kicking important goals even if he isn't 20m out directly in front.

 

[maddog37]

This thread really punches above its weight division.

I blame Covid or the Illuminati or a combination of the two.

 

[dogwatch]

Easy question to answer.
I think Toby's selection claims are stronger than the following players in tonight's team:
Lachie Young, Porter, Vandermeer, Lipinski, Gowers, Richards, and Weightman.

He might even have stronger selection claims than some players not included in the above list, e.g. Caleb Daniel.

His mistreatment at selection appears unrelated to his personal performance, if you don't consider that as being unfairly treated then I think we are using different standards.

McLean is a solid and versatile player who played an important role in our 2016 premiership and in 2018 was one of our key midfielders. Unlike too many players currently in our side he also is capable of taking contested marks and kicking important goals even if he isn't 20m out directly in front.

I hear what you say. I had him in my side for Rd 8 FWIW. Certainly ahead of Porter and Gowers.

However what we don't know is what the conversation has been with Toby.
There might be nothing.

Or ...

... there might be: "Here's why we left you out this week (v Ess) and so here's what we want you to work on for a couple of weeks." There might also be a bit of "you'll be getting games in the packed weeks ahead so don't worry, there's plenty of chance to show you can do what we want you to do".

Exactly what they want him to do I don't know - probably none of us do - but I'm not inclined to the view that Bevo just drops a premiership player like Toby and ignores him.

So I don't unblinkingly accept your statement that "his mistreatment at selection appears unrelated to his personal performance" and hence that he has been unfairly treated. We just don't know.

 

[Northernsoul74]

Are people forgetting how poor McLean was against Carlton? I know there were a few but he was up there with the worst.

 

[Mister Snrub]

Easy question to answer.
I think Toby's selection claims are stronger than the following players in tonight's team:
Lachie Young, Porter, Vandermeer, Lipinski, Gowers, Richards, and Weightman.

He might even have stronger selection claims than some players not included in the above list, e.g. Caleb Daniel.

His mistreatment at selection appears unrelated to his personal performance, if you don't consider that as being unfairly treated then I think we are using different standards.

McLean is a solid and versatile player who played an important role in our 2016 premiership and in 2018 was one of our key midfielders. Unlike too many players currently in our side he also is capable of taking contested marks and kicking important goals even if he isn't 20m out directly in front.

Weightman is a natural forward, and provides more in the forward 50 than Toby
Vandermeer provides speed on the wing and is a penetrating kick. He's also been among our best in all his games so far
Gowers has come in as a direct replacement for Dale as a marking forward, which Toby is not

Can't agree with you on those 3 at all, particularly Vandermeer

Claiming he should be selected ahead of Caleb Daniel is just objectively wrong. Daniel has been outstanding this year, would be top 3 in our B+F so far, and is a defender (unlike Toby)

 

[Glaeken Oracle]

Maybe we'll get another one of these

Interesting clip given Gowers kicks the goal while McLean is on the bench!

 

[Glaeken Oracle]

Weightman is a natural forward, and provides more in the forward 50 than Toby
Vandermeer provides speed on the wing and is a penetrating kick. He's also been among our best in all his games so far
Gowers has come in as a direct replacement for Dale as a marking forward, which Toby is not

Can't agree with you on those 3 at all, particularly Vandermeer

Claiming he should be selected ahead of Caleb Daniel is just objectively wrong. Daniel has been outstanding this year, would be top 3 in our B+F so far, and is a defender (unlike Toby)

Not disagreeing with you in general, but McLean is a decent long kick, and he has spent periods in games this year playing off half-back.
(Regardless of the marking aspect, I think McLean has Gowers well and truly covered as a footballer though.)

 

[Mister Snrub]

Not disagreeing with you in general, but McLean is a decent long kick, and he has spent periods in games this year playing off half-back.
(Regardless of the marking aspect, I think McLean has Gowers well and truly covered as a footballer though.)

Not wrong, but if we're going for known quantities, he's not displacing any of our defenders, and Gowers came in specifically to fill Dale's role. I think McLean is ultimately competing with Lipinski for a spot, and both have experienced ups and downs in form this year

 

[Floridog]

Well, after reading this thread with all the whinging about team selection and then going to the Gold Coast board and reading all the whinging about THEIR team's selection I have decided that we will win this game
Bulldogs -3 -2 -20
Suns -4 -4 -28

I'm just not sure how the negative scores will affect either teams percentages.

 

[Fossie 32]

Well, after reading this thread with all the whinging about team selection and then going to the Gold Coast board and reading all the whinging about THEIR team's selection I have decided that we will win this game
Bulldogs -3 -2 -20
Suns -4 -4 -28

I'm just not sure how the negative scores will affect either teams percentages.

Could be another first for us!!

 

[Charlie Bucket]

Easy question to answer.
I think Toby's selection claims are stronger than the following players in tonight's team:
Lachie Young, Porter, Vandermeer, Lipinski, Gowers, Richards, and Weightman.

He might even have stronger selection claims than some players not included in the above list, e.g. Caleb Daniel.

His mistreatment at selection appears unrelated to his personal performance, if you don't consider that as being unfairly treated then I think we are using different standards.

McLean is a solid and versatile player who played an important role in our 2016 premiership and in 2018 was one of our key midfielders. Unlike too many players currently in our side he also is capable of taking contested marks and kicking important goals even if he isn't 20m out directly in front.

Vandermeer, Richards - Outside Winger/Fwds, Weightman - Small/Fwd Gowers - Leading Fwd, Lachie Young - Defender(imo) don’t play the role that McLean has struggled with for the last 18mths so not sure why McLean would feel hard done by those selections.
Lipi has outperformed him over the last short period and even parts of last season imo and not sure why you’re putting Porter in there as we have no idea what bases his selection was on. Most likely he’s performed better at training and in the twos than what’s expected of McLean in all games so has got the nod.

You’ve lost me with the CD call so I’ll skip that.

“McLean is a solid and versatile player who played an important role in our 2016 premiership and in 2018 was one of our key midfielders”
Your absolutely right with this point but we haven’t seen any of that for 18mths. He’s been asked to play a different role, due to his versatility, to the one he played pre 2018 and he’s not come on as he should have. He’s not the player he has been and I’m surprised anyone would spruik his form in recent times.

“Unlike too many players currently in our side he also is capable of taking contested marks and kicking important goals even if he isn't 20m out directly in front”

This is a bit of a fantasy comment, Proffessor. Although he’s capable, when’s the last time McLean took a strong contested mark inside 50 or in a game at all? Last time he kicked important goals?

It’s obvious the coaches aren’t happy with his input/output and it doesn’t take much to know why, going on his last 18mths.

Go back and watch his North game and then watch the others he’s played in recently. Worlds apart. Obvious why he needs to pull his finger out.

 

[Charlie Bucket]

... there might be: "Here's why we left you out this week (v Ess) and so here's what we want you to work on for a couple of weeks." There might also be a bit of "you'll be getting games in the packed weeks ahead so don't worry, there's plenty of chance to show you can do what we want you to do".

Unfortunately there’s a long list of people in here that ignore the fact that these conversations DO happen within the four walls of a football club. Regardless of what level it is.